I have Octavia MK3 Estate/Combi MY13, I have a dog and a Gunner Kennel in the boot, the two are the equivalent in weight of an adult, add to that five adults and a roof box and the suspension is struggling. I do not want to change the car, not least because not many cars have a boot long enough to take the kennel without the top going through the back window, and I like not paying road fund tax.

 

I have read a few posts on this forum which upgrade the suspension to lower it. However, I want to upgrade the suspension to raise it. I have thought about changing the suspension to that of a 4x4 to get the extra height. Would that work? Is it possible? What parts would need changing? Has anyone done it?

 

Many thanks,

 

Gordon

Wouldn't the suspension off of an octavia scout be the easiest option?

 

But although these are higher in ride height, would the spring rates be enough to still support the loads you are carrying? . .it might droop the same as standard once loaded up?. . . .probably Wouldn't but probably worth exploring.

 

What about something like air spring supporters?

 

https://air-lift.co.uk/load-support/universal-air-helper-kits

 

These go down the center on the spring and can be pumped up when really loaded up in the rear, then deflated to give back standard ride when not needed.

 

@vrs'burks is the height on the scout higher than the 4x4? If so, then I would look to change the suspension to that of a scout, whichever has the higher ride height and can as you say support the load.

37 minutes ago, gm1 said:

@vrs'burks is the height on the scout higher than the 4x4? If so, then I would look to change the suspension to that of a scout, whichever has the higher ride height and can as you say support the load.

 

The Scout is the 4x4 "rough road" version....& it'll only add 15mm to thee ride height of a normal Octavia...the VRS is about 15mm lower..so a max of 30mm between the highest & lowest factory OEM suspension..

 

 

You can get spring spacer mounts which lift the body off the springs..

 

VW Alltrack/Tiguan Leveling MQB Chassis Lift Kit | FMLFT1 | Forge Overland (forgemotorsport.co.uk)

 

 

Edited 27 November, 20214 yr by fabdavrav

The scout is the model with black wheel arches and lifted ride. . Its the equivalent of audi's all road models. .  . This is the scout.

 

As far as I'm aware the 4x4 is no different in ride height.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, fabdavrav said:

 

The Scout is the 4x4 "rough road" version....& it'll only add 15mm to thee ride height of a normal Octavia...the VRS is about 15mm lower..so a max of 30mm between the highest & lowest factory OEM suspension..

 

 

You can get spring spacer mounts which lift the body off the springs..

 

VW Alltrack/Tiguan Leveling MQB Chassis Lift Kit | FMLFT1 | Forge Overland (forgemotorsport.co.uk)

 

 

Thank you @fabdavrav the only spacers I have managed to find are for the earlier Octavia versions

1 hour ago, gm1 said:

Thank you @fabdavrav the only spacers I have managed to find are for the earlier Octavia versions

 

That Forge version is for the MQB platform & states VW Alltrack....which is just a VW Mk7 Golf estate with AWD & taller springs & add on plastic exterior trim.....which is basically the same, platform, mechanicals, suspension & electrics as the MkIII Octavia which is also MQB...

I had some rubber spring assisters fitted for a while to help with load carrying while clearing out my dad's house. Really did help and if those air bags do a similar thing but in a more dignified way then that would be my suggestion.

The issue with just raising the suspension on spacers is that you will not gain any travel as the spring will still sag the same as before. The only way is to increase the spring rate with new springs or inserts.

If you are generally happy with the ride height then how about some lowering springs but with spacers to lift the car back to stock height? Would give you the support but keeping the shocks at a good point in their travel.

 

 

Have a look at these.

7 hours ago, gm1 said:

I have Octavia MK3 Estate/Combi MY13, I have a dog and a Gunner Kennel in the boot, the two are the equivalent in weight of an adult, add to that five adults and a roof box and the suspension is struggling. I do not want to change the car, not least because not many cars have a boot long enough to take the kennel without the top going through the back window, and I like not paying road fund tax.

 

I have read a few posts on this forum which upgrade the suspension to lower it. However, I want to upgrade the suspension to raise it. I have thought about changing the suspension to that of a 4x4 to get the extra height. Would that work? Is it possible? What parts would need changing? Has anyone done it?

 

Many thanks,

 

Gordon

 

There's no need to change the ride height.

 

Just fit rear springs that are two weight ranges stiffer than what you have at the moment.

 

Up until about 2008 Skoda did fit firm rear springs to the Octavia and Superb, but many owners weren't carrying much weight around in the back so they found the standard suspension too hard. Hence around this time Skoda started fitted rear springs that were two weight ranges softer. All you have to do is go back to what Skoda did before they softened the rear suspension.

 

You probably have 5Q0511121AD or 5Q0511121AE rear springs.

 

Simply change these to 5Q0511121AF or 5Q0511121AG rear springs.

 

Check the wire diameter of the rear springs that are currently fitted...probably around 10.75mm. The 5Q0511112AF and 5Q0511121AG rear springs have a wire diameter of around 11.25mm, so around 10% stiffer. 

 

https://web.tecalliance.net/gkn/en/parts/1/87627/detail?targetType=cars&targetId=59078&typeNumber=59078&groups=188#@brc/brands:Car;targetType:cars/assem:SKODA%20OCTAVIA%20III%20Combi%20(5E5%2C%205E6)%201.6%20TDI;targetType:cars;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078/lnkparts:Coil%20Springs;targetType:cars;assemblyGroupId:100113;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078;groups:188;brands:1;page:0/detail:87627;brandId:1;articleNo:87627;targetType:cars;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078;groups:188

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/5/511-511000/

 

(1)	5Q0 511 121 AD	coil spring		2	PR-1JA+0YD
(1)	5Q0 511 121 AE	coil spring		2	PR-1JA+0YE
(1)	5Q0 511 121 AF	coil spring		2	PR-1JA+0YF
(1)	5Q0 511 121 AG	coil spring		2	PR-1JA+0YG

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/5/511-511000/

 

Kilen 63140 are sold to replace both 5Q0511112AF and 5Q0511121AG and are available on ebay for under £32 each.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234236638466?hash=item3689977502:g:PQEAAOSws-hhaMT2

 

Edited 27 November, 20214 yr by Carlston

30 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

There's no need to change the ride height.

 

Just fit rear springs that are two weight ranges stiffer than what you have at the moment.

 

Up until about 2008 Skoda did fit firm rear springs to the Octavia and Superb, but many owners weren't carrying much weight around in the back so they found the standard suspension too hard. Hence around this time Skoda started fitted rear springs that were two weight ranges softer. All you have to do is go back to what Skoda did before they softened the rear suspension.

 

You probably have 5Q0511121AD or 5Q0511121AE rear springs.

 

Simply change these to 5Q0511121AF or 5Q0511121AG rear springs.

 

Check the wire diameter of the rear springs that are currently fitted...probably around 10.75mm. The 5Q0511112AF and 5Q0511121AG rear springs have a wire diameter of around 11.25mm, so around 10% stiffer. 

 

https://web.tecalliance.net/gkn/en/parts/1/87627/detail?targetType=cars&targetId=59078&typeNumber=59078&groups=188#@brc/brands:Car;targetType:cars/assem:SKODA%20OCTAVIA%20III%20Combi%20(5E5%2C%205E6)%201.6%20TDI;targetType:cars;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078/lnkparts:Coil%20Springs;targetType:cars;assemblyGroupId:100113;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078;groups:188;brands:1;page:0/detail:87627;brandId:1;articleNo:87627;targetType:cars;targetId:59078;typeNumber:59078;groups:188

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/5/511-511000/

 

https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/octavia/oct/2016-753/5/511-511000/

 

Kilen 63140 are sold to replace both 5Q0511112AF and 5Q0511121AG and are available on ebay for under £32 each.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234236638466?hash=item3689977502:g:PQEAAOSws-hhaMT2

 

Guess what I'm about to buy. Cheers Carlston. I presume fitting is jack up the wheel, wheel off, undo the bottom shocker bolt, take out the old spring and put the new one in and refit the bolt in the shocker. As per Fabia Mk 3 etc.

Edited 27 November, 20214 yr by peter3197

1 minute ago, peter3197 said:

Guess what I'm about to buy. Cheers Carlston. I presume fitting is jack up the wheel, undo the bottom shocker bolt, take out the old spring and put the new one in and refit the bolt in the shocker. As per Fabia Mk 3 etc.

 

I haven't done this particular job, so probably best to ask someone with hands on experience.

Its a shame I did not find those air springs before, I fitted the rough road package springs to my Octavia which raised the ride height & increased the spring rate but did not compromise the ride. I did the same on the Yeti (broken rear coil) which already had the "Outdoor" suspension set up, ride height unchanged, slightly firmer ride but recently it has started a very noticable pitch oscillation when I hit a couple of bumps at the natural frequency of the (I think) rear suspension, it carries on pitching for some while as if there is no damping, its very hard to test the dampers by a bounce test as the suspension is so stiff to start with.

 

It feels just like an early Suzuki SJ410 driving over a hard baked rutted field!! Not sure what it looks like, I know the rear suspension is very stiff (even though the ride feels OK aside from the pitching) because I have been towing some very very heavily loaded trailers, when I had  a big amount of nose weight the rear of the vehicle barely settled but the front end rose, it was pivoting about the rear axle! That is when I first noticed the pitching on autoroutes but it also does it when not towing but with a reasonable load in the rear.

 

I am tempting to buy a pair of standard rear springs and see if the ride improves, if it did I would definitely fit those air springs.

Edited 27 November, 20214 yr by J.R.

11 hours ago, peter3197 said:

Guess what I'm about to buy. Cheers Carlston. I presume fitting is jack up the wheel, wheel off, undo the bottom shocker bolt, take out the old spring and put the new one in and refit the bolt in the shocker. As per Fabia Mk 3 etc.

 

 

Didn't realise that VAG did several different rear spring rates for the same ride height!!...usually they alter it only for the height...or the DCC option..

 

 

If its the torsion beam suspension you have to replace the bolt & torque it to 70Nm +180deg turn

 

If its the multilink suspension you have to replace the nut & bolt & torque it to 70Nm +180deg turn

 

Bolt needs to done up with the wheel on the ground in the normal unladen position....basically do bolts up to just touching remove everything from the boot, car on ground, open hatch press down several times on hatch sill to bounce car..then crawl under to torque..

 

You also might have to undo the plastic level sender for the headlights on the multi-link arm as it could over extend....also be aware of the spring location on the rubber pads as its directional..

Edited 28 November, 20214 yr by fabdavrav

@Carlston thank you, crawled under this morning, and the car came with 500 511 121 AD unfortunately I do not have any callipers to measure it with. I have listened to the advice given by @Carlston, @vrs'burks and @lard-ajc in this post and (489523-octavia-scout-mk3-rear-suspension) I am not going to raise the suspension but get thicker springs and a helper spring unless anyone can think of a reason not to? as I do not necessarily need to increase the ride height, that said I would be interested in @Carlston your thoughts on fitting equivalent of 511121BE (your post on page 2 of 489523-octavia-scout-mk3-rear-suspension) to not only take more weight but increase ride height slightly. Presumably I would need to change the front ones too?

 

@fabdavrav thank you for the torque settings, I am going to chicken on this, purchase the parts and get a local garage to fit them. While getting the spring part number, I have already put a dent in the under sill with to long a wood support on the trolley jack, huff!

 

Many thanks for everyones help,

 

I keep a couple of these in my car to avoid trolley jack damage:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BornFeel-Universal-Protector-Motorbike-Workshop/dp/B07R7N5SCL/ref=asc_df_B07R7N5SCL/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=226168125559&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6618288599875661132&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006514&hvtargid=pla-760563172202&psc=1

 

If you do raise ride height it would be worth following up with a 4 wheel geometry check as if your car has the independent rear suspension the rear camber figures might be affected. 

Edited 28 November, 20214 yr by bigjohn

@gm1, unless I missed it one of the posts you have not posted what type of mk3 Octavia you have.

 

The 1.0tsi, 1.4tsi, 1.5tsi, 1.6tdi and 2.0tdi  have a beam rear axle

Any petrol or diesel AWD version or vRS will have independent rear suspension.

 

Not sure how that impacts on what springs you select to achieve what you want, but if you have beam rear axle then you will not need the 4 wheel geometry check as the beam rear has little to no adjustability, so a standard front wheels geometry check only.

@bigjohn thank you, just added it to the Christmas list

@Gerrycan it is a Octavia SE TDI CR MK3 5E Estate/Combi 1600cc 77kW CLHA Diesel MY13

The Kilen online catalogue lists both standard ride height springs and increased ride height springs for the Octavia MK3 estate 1.6TDI 105HP.

 

https://web.tecalliance.net/kilen/en/parts/cars/assigned?assemblyGroupId=100113&targetId=58766&typeNumber=58766&targetCountry=AT&groups=188&brands=176&page=0#@brc/brands:Car;targetType:cars/assem:SKODA%20OCTAVIA%20III%20Combi%20(5E5%2C%205E6)%201.6%20TDI;targetType:cars;targetId:58766;typeNumber:58766;targetCountry:AT/lnkparts:Coil%20Springs;targetType:cars;assemblyGroupId:100113;targetId:58766;typeNumber:58766;targetCountry:AT;groups:188;brands:176;page:0

 

The following springs will increase the ride height by about 15mm

 

Front spring with 15mm increased ride height (OEM part number 5Q0411105HN)

Kilen 23132

KYB RA1122

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0411105hn?search=OEN

 

Rear spring with 15mm increased ride height (OEM part number 5Q0511112BD)

Kilen 63141

KYB RA7155

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/5q0511121bd

 

Edited 29 November, 20214 yr by Carlston

On 28/11/2021 at 09:14, fabdavrav said:

Didn't realise that VAG did several different rear spring rates for the same ride height!!...usually they alter it only for the height...or the DCC option.

 

When you order a car with a factory fitted towbar, you will get stiffer rear springs that don't change the unladen ride height compared to the same car that came out of the factory without a towbar.

 

However, it's not so easy to change the front springs without changing the unladen ride height.

 

For example, if someone with a standard ride height Octavia MK3 1.6TDI fits front springs from a standard ride height Octavia MK3 2.0TDI the ride height will increase. This is because the 2.0TDI engine is heavier than the 1.6TDI engine.

 

Edited 29 November, 20214 yr by Carlston

10 minutes ago, Carlston said:

 

When you order a car with a factory fitted towbar, you will get stiffer rear springs that don't change the unladen ride height compared to the same car that came out of the factory without a towbar.

 

However, it's not so easy to change the front springs without changing the unladen ride height.

 

For example, if someone with a standard ride height Octavia MK3 1.6TDI fits front springs from a standard ride height Octavia MK3 2.0TDI the ride height will increase. This is because the 2.0TDI engine is heavier than the 1.6TDI engine.

 

 

 

The tow bar option makes sense....& yes I know about the engine weights & spring differences....ie the heavier the engine the stiffer/stronger the spring has to be "jack" the car back upto the same empty/unladen ride height...

 

I wonder then if the "tow bar" rear springs make the rear ride "crashy" when the rear is empty??...

50 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

I wonder then if the "tow bar" rear springs make the rear ride "crashy" when the rear is empty??...

 

The tow-bar rear springs can also be called heavy duty rear springs, as you don't need a towbar to fit them.

 

Tow-bar/heavy-duty rear springs tend to have a wire thickness about 0.5mm thicker than standard, which makes them about 10% stiffer than standard.

 

If the OP feels that his rear springs are too soft, then fitting 10% stiffer rear springs isn't going to make the ride "crashy".

 

Kilen actually recommends the tow-bar/heavy-duty rear springs for the OP's car, whereas gknautomotive recommends the standard rear springs.

 

Rear springs are always going to be a compromise simply because of the widely different rear axle weights that you can have. Just two front passengers and there's not much weight on the rear springs. Add two or three rear seat passengers and all there luggage, and maybe add a large caravan into the mix and the standard soft rear springs will start to become overwhelmed.

 

So maybe a 600kg rear axle weight with a lightly loaded car to 900kg with a heavily loaded car. Clearly, no one pair of rear springs are going to be optimal for all conditions.

 

It's not just the spring rates, but the tyre sizes that play an important part in ride comfort. 195/65R15 and 205/55R16 are good, whereas lower profile tyres can reduce the ride comfort by an easily noticeable amount.

 

Edited 29 November, 20214 yr by Carlston

2 hours ago, Carlston said:

 

The tow-bar rear springs can also be called heavy duty rear springs, as you don't need a towbar to fit them.

 

Tow-bar/heavy-duty rear springs tend to have a wire thickness about 0.5mm thicker than standard, which makes them about 10% stiffer than standard.

 

If the OP feels that his rear springs are too soft, then fitting 10% stiffer rear springs isn't going to make the ride "crashy".

 

Kilen actually recommends the tow-bar/heavy-duty rear springs for the OP's car, whereas gknautomotive recommends the standard rear springs.

 

Rear springs are always going to be a compromise simply because of the widely different rear axle weights that you can have. Just two front passengers and there's not much weight on the rear springs. Add two or three rear seat passengers and all there luggage, and maybe add a large caravan into the mix and the standard soft rear springs will start to become overwhelmed.

 

So maybe a 600kg rear axle weight with a lightly loaded car to 900kg with a heavily loaded car. Clearly, no one pair of rear springs are going to be optimal for all conditions.

 

It's not just the spring rates, but the tyre sizes that play an important part in ride comfort. 195/65R15 and 205/55R16 are good, whereas lower profile tyres can reduce the ride comfort by an easily noticeable amount.

 

 

 

Hmmmm...so just a 0.5mm on the diameter?..as you say approx. 10% stiffer...so not as much as I feared...

 

I'm on 225/45/R17....& most of the time its two people in the front...but I have the multilink on my 1.4lt Mk7 Golf estate.

 

Will keep in mind the "heavy duty/tow bar" rear spring option when I have to replace mine...so long as they did a "sports suspension" -15mm version which is what I have from factory...

On 27/11/2021 at 23:36, J.R. said:

 recently it has started a very noticable pitch oscillation when I hit a couple of bumps at the natural frequency of the (I think) rear suspension, it carries on pitching for some while as if there is no damping, its very hard to test the dampers by a bounce test as the suspension is so stiff to start with.

 

It feels just like an early Suzuki SJ410 driving over a hard baked rutted field!! Not sure what it looks like, I know the rear suspension is very stiff (even though the ride feels OK aside from the pitching) because I have been towing some very very heavily loaded trailers, when I had  a big amount of nose weight the rear of the vehicle barely settled but the front end rose, it was pivoting about the rear axle! That is when I first noticed the pitching on autoroutes but it also does it when not towing but with a reasonable load in the rear.

 

 

What I said above about it being very hard to bounce test the front dampers due to the stiff suspension.......... well it ain't true, its very easy to do a bounce test when your dampers no longer function whatsoever as I found this evening 😳

 

I can't believe that pitching aside I had no indication when driving, no dipping under braking or roll instability when cornering, no wheel hop from potholes, the car must have a very good roll bar set up to mask such a deficiency.

 

I got a real shock when I saw the price of new struts, £39 a pair delivered 😆 They cost more than that trade for a !ford Tincorner 45 years ago.