Battery causing various errors

[nta16]

3 minutes ago, MX-5 said:

Banner conclusion: Registration recommended, BEM code required, comfort features may not work immediately and unrestricted without registration.

comfort features - may not - work immediately and unrestricted - without registration.

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Will have another look later, just off out to gym.

Looked at a quick glance to be good, plausible engineering sense to me, and Banner are a VW group OEM I think.

[MX-5]

9 minutes ago, nta16 said:

comfort features - may not - work immediately and unrestricted - without registration.

I'm not quite sure how to parse that particular line, or whether your interpretation is the correct one.

 

They also quote Škoda themselves as saying "Without configuration or by installing a replacement battery from the free aftermarket, this may cause restrictions in the functionality and increased battery wear due to incorrectly functioning shut-off stages." Again, the language isn't exactly crystal clear.

[nta16]

Yes and that's the problem, not making things clear is what many companies and corporations do for many reasons and the problem is unless someone has changed the battery say 8-10+ years ago without bothering to have it configured it's difficult to know for sure - but then the same battery might have lasted 10+ years and more if it had been configured.

 

Unless a whistle-blower comes out and says you don't need to configure the battery - but then can you believe them, this is life, full of uncertainties.

 

For your oil grades, as Wino pointed out to me VW state specifications rather than grades and I always point out the SAE engine oil weights are a range rather than only at one point.

 

The tyre pressure is what the manufacturer recommends for factory standard vehicle on factory standard tyres to cover the wide range of customers use, in the location, it's usually a best overall figure and best kept to with factory standard but again the definitions are very loose, usually you check when the tyres are 'cold' but at no mentioned ambient temperature range and as we well know in the UK a 10c difference from one day to the next is not unknown.

 

Do you have an Eco tyre pressure setting mentioned on the Yeti or in its Driver's Handbook?

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Munching some food now, but I seem to remember that a member with a rather inappropriate/over-modest  username works in the battery industry and has previously commented about the robustness of the cars' systems with regards to 'sorting themselves out' irrespective of coding.

@BigEjit are you able to assist, please?

Completely understand if you don't wish to comment if it might come back at you professionally somehow. 

[Austin 7]

I've just come back to this thread, hadn't realised that I put the cat amongst the pigeons by referring to the previous threads on battery coding.

 

The way I read it, the VAG "Closed System" is nothing to do with closed or open loop control systems, but is closed in the sense of a closed market.  The cynic in me would suspect that this is partly about keeping the replacement battery market to themselves, and I find it hard to swallow the vague warning about increased battery wear.

 

The battery management system is capable of continuously monitoring battery voltage and the current flow in and out, so is quite capable of determining the health of the battery.  I see no reason why it cannot recognise a new (or healthy) battery (of the correct type and capacity) being fitted, and re- adapt to it within a space of time.  That's what I meant by "robustly designed". After all, the other systems in the car can recover from an inadvertently flattened battery after a short time of running, though you might have to re-enter stored radio stations and phone numbers etc.

 

I'm sure if you are the driver of a new-ish car and pay for main dealer servicing you would be a bit miffed if you went in for a battery change and then drove home still seeing warning lights/messages, so coding is great for such customers. everything works straight away and there is a log of a new battery being fitted.  On the other hand, if your car was a few years old and you broke down on a wet and windy night and the local garage fitted a new battery without coding, you would be equally miffed if the car wouldn't start or displayed error messages for ever more.

 

I appreciate that this is all surmise, as I don't have details of the software used for battery management, I suspect that's a closed shop too.

 

At the end of the day, it's the original poster's car and up to them to do as they choose.

[Cornish_Lad]

A quick update from me ..

 

Battery was charged all of yesterday, via the correct (third) terminal, and when the Charger showed full (12.8v) and 100% Health I disconnected it. 
 

Took the Yeti for a 10 mile drive last night, no issues at all - all warning lights disappeared, and no limp mode. 
 

Got in the car this morning, and warning lights are back on. Guess that’s telling me for certain that the existing battery is knackered 🙁 

 

Best deal I can find locally is a Yuasa 096 battery from GSF Car Parts for £104.15 Inc vat (makes it cheaper than the Tayna offering I was going to get). Can’t quite tell if the GSF offering is an AGM battery though - anyone know ?

 

 Then (the big question) do I get it coded in ? My work colleague has an Xtool Vag401 that I can borrow to program it in, which I’m probably going to do (as the tool to do it is readily available) ..

 

 Really do appreciate all the help and advice from everyone on here, it’s been really useful and helpful 👍 

[Breezy_Pete]

If it doesn't say AGM it won't be one.

Can you check what fault codes are back?

[Cornish_Lad]

Same faults as previous, ABS Module and Start / Stop (haven’t scanned yet though). 
 

As for the Yuasa battery, I’ve just googled it and apparently it’s not Start / Stop compatible. 
 

Hmm, maybe the Tayna one is still in the running

[nta16]

Unless you're going to be selling the car going for cheap on a battery isn't a good idea in my opinion and experience.

 

IIRC Tayna will price match like for like and available, and if you order before ??3pm?? you normally get it delivered next day.

 

Tayna lists have tabs for EFB and AGM at top of page.

 

The Xtool may depend on its type and programming as to what and how much it can do but plug it in and give it a go, then you want to reuse it after a reasonable drive to check what it has still showing.  As I've discovered some say they've cleared codes but other machines can still see them not that it matters if the car is running fine.

 

Get the new battery before the panic buying starts.

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Scan again to see the exact faults, @Urrell may have been spot on about there being a fault that's unrelated to battery charge level. 

Will be upsetting to spend hundreds on battery replacement and still have the faults.

[nta16]

15 minutes ago, Wino said:

Scan again to see the exact faults, @Urrell may have been spot on about there being a fault that's unrelated to battery charge level. 

Will be upsetting to spend hundreds on battery replacement and still have the faults.

Too true, I thought there was some sort of conformation that the battery wasn't in 100% health(?), I can't think a 6 year old battery would still be at 100% capacity, I took the 100% to be the 12.8v charge and that that had been lost overnight suggesting time for change.

 

ETA: its not hundreds on a battery and of course there could be more than one fault, that might or might not involve the battery in one or any of those faults.  Usually worth rechecking what you've double-checked before too.

 

Edited 30 November, 2021 by nta16

[Warrior193]

2 hours ago, Cornish_Lad said:

A quick update from me ..

 

Battery was charged all of yesterday, via the correct (third) terminal, and when the Charger showed full (12.8v) and 100% Health I disconnected it. 
 

Took the Yeti for a 10 mile drive last night, no issues at all - all warning lights disappeared, and no limp mode. 
 

Got in the car this morning, and warning lights are back on. Guess that’s telling me for certain that the existing battery is knackered 🙁 

 

Best deal I can find locally is a Yuasa 096 battery from GSF Car Parts for £104.15 Inc vat (makes it cheaper than the Tayna offering I was going to get). Can’t quite tell if the GSF offering is an AGM battery though - anyone know ?

 

 Then (the big question) do I get it coded in ? My work colleague has an Xtool Vag401 that I can borrow to program it in, which I’m probably going to do (as the tool to do it is readily available) ..

 

 Really do appreciate all the help and advice from everyone on here, it’s been really useful and helpful 👍 

Standard lead-acid battery.

[BigEjit]

On 29/11/2021 at 19:25, Wino said:

Munching some food now, but I seem to remember that a member with a rather inappropriate/over-modest  username works in the battery industry and has previously commented about the robustness of the cars' systems with regards to 'sorting themselves out' irrespective of coding.

@BigEjit are you able to assist, please?

Completely understand if you don't wish to comment if it might come back at you professionally somehow. 

Without knowing for sure how individual OEM’s set up the control systems for monitoring battery performance, it does stand to strong reasoning that a system capable of tracking current flow to and from the battery and map them relative to corresponding measured voltage would at some point adapt to match the change in performance offered by fitting a new battery in place of one at end of life. Voltage drops off quicker in a damaged battery vs new battery for a determined current draw time. Therefore a battery condition map can be generated. 

 

The Banner article certainly supports that. Resetting the BEM would trigger a learn process similar to that when resetting TPMS.

 

After changing an EFB to AGM in our Fab 3, Stop Start was near instantly available. It was 3 months before I asked the dealership to check and update the settings at annual service and the battery is fine. AGM will take a more aggressive charge and discharge profile over EFB and Flooded so updating the vehicle settings to AGM exploits the additional battery performance without overcharging gaining emissions/fuel savings with extended alternator down time.

 

As for the OP and a dash full of lights going out after a recharge but coming back a few days later. That’s a strong whiff of battery capacity loss that the system can’t compensate for but recharging gives temporary respite showing all is fine with a decent amount of energy present. Deep discharging and/or excessive heat kills batteries, cold weather exposes the damage. 

[nta16]

10 hours ago, BigEjit said:

Deep discharging and/or excessive heat kills batteries, cold weather exposes the damage. 

A good headline.

 

[nta16]

Quick explanation - this bears out with going from a battery that's on it's arse and properly fully recharging it the car then has to deal with that big difference which it does.

 

Longer version - my thoughts would also be that if you have a battery, say 6 years old, in a deep state of discharge but you fully revive it by disconnecting it from the vehicle and giving it a long low slow recharge then when you reinstall it to the vehicle the vehicle's computer system would  would need to make a very big adjustment going from a depleted battery to one that is fully recharged and may well hold that charge because it has gone deeper giving sufficient battery capacity again and the car's computer programs adjust to this. 

 

[Cornish_Lad]

Thought I’d check back in and provide an update. 
 

New battery arrived yesterday from Tayna (excellent service by the way). 
 

Fitted it this evening, no hassle at all. Unfortunately all previously mentioned warning lights still remain 🙁 

 

Scanned with Carista (Pro version) but that app was unable to reset/clear the faults - and simply stated error code was cleared, but remained ..

 

 I’m asking my friend who has an Xtool Vag 401 scanner to bring it in tomorrow, I’ll see if that does any better 🤞
 

Car is now in limp mode (30 mph max) so if that doesn’t clear them, then I’ll have to admit defeat and speak to my local Skoda specialist. 
 

Still can’t understand / believe that these errors, which only appeared after I received a 12v battery low warning, can be anything other than battery related 🤷‍♂️ 

 

So frustrating 🙁 

[nta16]

Did you tell the car it'd got a new battery (coded in the new battery) if not the cars' computers may take a while to cotton, they're very dumb.

 

I don't know this Carista but I'd imagine you'd need the VW specific program to do much with a VW product your mate's scanner might do better (and find other historic error codes, record them then clear the lot).

 

[nta16]

Other than that are your tyre pressure(s) OK and left rear speed sensor not covered in mud/crud/grit/**** or rust.

 

[Cornish_Lad]

4 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Did you tell the car it'd got a new battery (coded in the new battery) if not the cars' computers may take a while to cotton, they're very dumb.

 

I don't know this Carista but I'd imagine you'd need the VW specific program to do much with a VW product your mate's scanner might do better (and find other historic error codes, record them then clear the lot).

 

No I haven’t yet told the ECU it’s got a new battery … fingers crossed it might just be that. 
 

I’ll update again when I know more

[Cornish_Lad]

Just now, nta16 said:

Other than that are your tyre pressure(s) OK and left rear speed sensor not covered in mud/crud/grit/**** or rust.

 

As far as I’m aware they’re ok. 
 

Haven’t been anywhere other than tarmac with the car. I’ll have a look tomorrow after I’ve played with the Xtool ..

[nta16]

2 minutes ago, Cornish_Lad said:

No I haven’t yet told the ECU it’s got a new battery … fingers crossed it might just be that. 
 

I’ll update again when I know more

If it wasn't in limp mode, and drove correctly, I'd just suggest driving it more so the computers pick up things have improved battery wise.  The computers (or really their programs) are in charge, wot could possibly go wrong!!??!!

 

[Cornish_Lad]

On the subject of coding the battery, does anyone know what BEM code i can use for the Tayna 096 recommended battery ?

 

 I’ve googled, and can’t find anything relevant

[nta16]

10 hours ago, Cornish_Lad said:

On the subject of coding the battery, does anyone know what BEM code i can use for the Tayna 096 recommended battery ?

Just leave what is already in there (JCB?), or possibly you could put in whatever three letters you wanted my three letters are 'Bosch' although apparently the Bosch battery is made by Varta.

 

As long as you put the Ah and CCA, though that's debatable given the different specification standards for CCA, possibly it's all just box filling as long as you have the correct battery type, EFB / AGM. - who knows with VW computer programming.

 

[Cornish_Lad]

Well I’ve coded it in using an Xtool VAG 401 unit, made sure it saved the changes (it had) ..

 

 Using the same device I read and attempted to clear the stored fault codes, to no avail (the tool advises they’ve been cleared, but came back). 
 

I’m out of ideas / options now 🙁 

 

I’ll check the fuses in daylight tomorrow, but no doubt will be following that up with a phone call to the local Skoda specialist. 
 

Either I’m missing something, or something is actually wrong with the ABS module etc. 

 

I’ll update again when I know more - probably later next week