14 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Rear brake pressure unladen should be around 450psi and 650 laden

 

1) The winding with the screwdriver on the drum brakes is like the tightening of the nut on the rod in small 50cc (παπακι) drum brake?

You just improve the feeling, you don't raise the pressure but sometimes this is important.

 

2) the aftermarket pressure regulator on the brake pump works with the mathematical equation P=F/S and tightening the faucet raises the pressure or not?

51 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the aftermarket pressure regulator on the brake pump works with the mathematical equation P=F/S and tightening the faucet raises the pressure or not

Not quite its a simple preload spring with bypass so when the pressure exceeds the preset pressure fluid is bled out resulting in capping of the maximum brake pressure 

 

52 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The winding with the screwdriver on the drum brakes is like the tightening of the nut on the rod in small 50cc (παπακι) drum brake?

Yes if you are withing travel of the wheel cylinder you just shorten the pedal travel 

6 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Not quite its a simple preload spring with bypass so when the pressure exceeds the preset pressure fluid is bled out resulting in capping of the maximum brake pressure 

 

Yes if you are withing travel of the wheel cylinder you just shorten the pedal travel 

 

Bypasses the factory brake pump or it's additional? After the installment it's ''try and tighten'' procedure?

 

How often we must do that ''winding''?

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Bypasses the factory brake pump or it's additional

Lets the fluid go around capping the pressure 

 

22 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Yes if you are withing travel of the wheel cylinder you just shorten the pedal travel 

 

How often we must do that ''winding''?

I saw a video witch a guy has the plastic cover moved and does the job from inside when the car is on the jack but i don't agree, yes it's faster way but leaving a hole opened means water-dust etc will go inside the drum easily.

7 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

water-dust etc will go inside the drum easily.

i think there is removable cover

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

i think there is removable cover

If it's from inside good, if it's from outside i have to remove the wheel the cover etc.

In few days i will go to a local repair-shop and to find out.

On 23/12/2021 at 12:56, Thefeliciahacker said:

just shorten the pedal travel 

 I phone to a repair-shop, he said that winding on the rear drums is for the hand brake, it makes it more tight.

15 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

he said that winding on the rear drums is for the hand brake

WRONG the hand brake is ajusted below the lever with nuts and studs, that being said obviously shortening the travel is going to make the hand brake tighter 

2 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

WRONG the hand brake is ajusted below the lever with nuts and studs, that being said obviously shortening the travel is going to make the hand brake tighter 

 

Today i visited another repair-shop, i asked if the winding of the rear drums wheel is for pedal too but they told me not

He said the pedal travel can not be adjusted, it's ''fixed".

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

i asked if the winding of the rear drums wheel is for pedal too but they told me not

He said the pedal travel can not be adjusted, it's ''fixed".

Also @Thefeliciahacker - The correct answer in the general case is "that depends". If your drums have slack adjusters built in ("need winding") then the pedal travel will be effectively fixed; some cars with rear drums do use the handbrake adjuster at the lever as the primary adjustment of the drums though, and this has a noticeable effect on the footbrake travel.

20 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

some cars with rear drums do use the handbrake adjuster at the lever as the primary adjustment of the drums though, and this has a noticeable effect on the footbrake travel.

 

I don't think Felicia has that because in the past i asked from my mechanic to make the hand brake one click tighter because was too loose and i don't think he did it from inside the cabin removing the plastic of console, he must done it from the rear drums.

Later i saw the ''clicks" of hand brake raise were less and it was stiffer but i saw no difference on the brake pedal travel.

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I don't think Felicia has that

I didn't think so either, but I was being comprehensive.

What do you think about my case?

I didn't know about different brake limiter setups when I bought the car. Look at this picture please:

No limiters here.

I rebuilt rear wheel assembly too. I still have the old parts laying around.

I've just took these:

As you can see this is 22mm.

 

My rear brake setup was pickup style without any limiter. (Pickup has an in-line limiter from factory installed between chassis and beam axle. [Load sensitive] )

I didn't know all of these when buying parts for the work. I bought 19mm cylinders from Forman catalogue. When disassembling, I've noticed the cylinders had different tips. 19mm cylinder heads are flat. 22mm are not as you can see in the picture above.

 

It was during a lock-down so I've installed what I had.

(Old pictures)

I never had a rear wheel lock neither before nor after this work.

 

The LPG tank is a permanent load but it's not a big one. I don't know how much those tanks weight.

Also I think wider tires help braking efficiency. I have 175/70/R13. Instead of stock 165s.

 

Maybe I should too switch back to 22mm.

What do you think about all of this?

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

My rear brake setup

 

Can you do the winding work on these?

18 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Can you do the winding work on these?

Rear brakes on these models are called "self adjusting". That means, brake mechanism will compensate thinner brake pads as they wear. Of course it is not related to anti-lock brake-bias.

In the pictures above there is a vertical spring. It is connected to a wedge shaped metal part that slides down as the pads get thinner. So the vertical spring holds the pads always as close to the drums as possible. Automatically reducing pad travel, minimizing cylinder travel thus, always giving the minimum pedal travel.

Other than that, the only adjustment about rear brakes is; the hand brake cable adjustment. It's located under the plastic cover of the hand brake lever.

Of course this is valid for Favorit and Forman.

 

I've searched for more info and this is what I've found:

Fav. based vehicles:

Pre.'93 models have different master cylinders and and all rear brake/drum setup is different than '93+. (WV spec.)

Favorit/Forman has 19.05mm rear cylinders. Pickup has 22.2mm rear cylinders.

Also Favorit/Forman and pickup models do not use the same master cylinder.

This one above is Favorit pickup master cylinder. OEM code: 116595013

The second master cylinder here belongs to Favorit/Forman. OEM code: 115595015

 

As you can see Favorit/Forman master cylinder has larger bores for fitting pressure regulating valves.

The pressure regulating valves are also different for Favorit and Forman.

Favorit: 115595320

Forman: 116595321

This is how they are connected in Favorit/Forman.

(In my case, you can see it in previous post, looks like I have pickup master cylinder and brake pipes are connected directly.)

 

Pickup setup is special. Needs extra care because pickup models face extreme load conditions on both sides that other models never endure.

Pickups are designed to carry heavy loads rather than carrying people. So there are more powerful brake cylinders in the rear brakes but when unloaded they will be a lot lighter than a car sharing the same platform. The solution to this technical challenge is this:

@Thefeliciahacker has posted on previous page about it's adjustment.

 

Now what about Fellys?

Felicia master cylinder is completely different than Fav.

 

The most important detail about Felicia brake system is the ABS.

Brake booster: (Without ABS)

007486201A (10.94 - 07.95)

6U0612107

Master cylinder:

6U0611019 (Without ABS)

6U0698019 (ABS)

 

Rear cylinders:

6U0 611 053 B: Felicia 135/136 (19.05mm)

6U0 611 053: Felicia 1.6MPI / 1.9D (20.6mm)

6U0 611 053 A: Pickup (22.2mm)

 

Same deal with pressure regulating valves.

Non-ABS models have pressure regulating valves attached directly to the master cylinder:

007486201M: Felicia hatchback

007486203M: Felicia estate

 

Now the REAL question:

If you upgrade a Felicia hatchback which has ABS with 22.2mm rear cylinders, will ABS compensate the extra braking power?

 

Also ABS Felicias have different rear brake backplate for speed sensor placement.

 

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

Rear brakes on these models are called "self adjusting".  Automatically reducing pad travel, minimizing cylinder travel thus, always giving the minimum pedal travel.

Other than that, the only adjustment about rear brakes is; the hand brake cable adjustment.

 

2 repair-shops (Non Skoda by the way) told me the same but i was still not convinced.

 

 

But now with your most helpful post (with codes included) if feel covered on that matter.

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Now the REAL question:

If you upgrade a Felicia hatchback which has ABS with 22.2mm rear cylinders, will ABS compensate the extra braking power?

 

Also ABS Felicias have different rear brake backplate for speed sensor placement.

They will but if it ain't calibrated for that you Wil have very abrupt pressure reapplication 

16 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

But now with your most helpful post (with codes included) if feel covered on that matter.

You are welcome. It was a pleasure.

 

I missed one part in my previous post:

Brake booster for ABS models:

6U0612105

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

They will but if it ain't calibrated for that you Wil have very abrupt pressure reapplication

Is it possible to calibrate ABS system?

 

@R_U_AFA do you have ABS in your car?

1 hour ago, R_Blue said:

Is it possible to calibrate ABS system?

What sort of ABS? "Calibration" would certainly interfere with the correct operation of a 4-channel ABS like is on the Skoda Octavia.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

What sort of ABS? "Calibration" would certainly interfere with the correct operation of a 4-channel ABS like is on the Skoda Octavia.

So what happens if you replace rear brake cylinders from 19.05mm to 22.2mm on a Felicia with ABS system?

@Thefeliciahacker says a calibration is needed.

Maybe he means reprogramming of the ABS module. I don't know if that is possible.

4 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Is it possible to calibrate ABS system?

Highly doubt it.

52 minutes ago, R_Blue said:

Maybe he means reprogramming of the ABS module

yes thats what I meant, you have to adjust your duty cycle and stuff

9 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Highly doubt it.

yes thats what I meant, you have to adjust your duty cycle and stuff

I'm not a specialist in automotive ABS, but I still think I know more about it than you.

22 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Rear cylinders:

6U0 611 053 B: Felicia 135/136 (19.05mm)

6U0 611 053: Felicia 1.6MPI / 1.9D (20.6mm)

6U0 611 053 A: Pickup (22.2mm)

 

Same deal with pressure regulating valves.

Non-ABS models have pressure regulating valves attached directly to the master cylinder:

007486201M: Felicia hatchback

007486203M: Felicia estate

 

From what I've found, 22,2 is used on estate with pressure regulator too. Estate 136M has pressure regulator on the rear axle,not sure about other 1.3s.

 

Non-abs 1.6 and 1.9 have regulator even as Hb, which is why they have larger rear cylinders.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

but I still think I know more about it than you.

inform us