Some bus lanes are reserved for buses, taxis etc the whole 24 hours of the day, while others are only reserved during the rush hours.  I see that in some places the signs at the start of a bus lane might announce the limited reserve times, but here in Cambridge and the surrounding county none of the bus lane notices tell us when we may or may not use them. So, you guys, how are these lanes signed where you are?  Do your signs tell you clearly when a lane is reserved for buses etc. and when anyone can drive along it?

 

Can one assume that rural bus lanes are open to all traffic outside rush hours (usually 07:30-09:30 and then 15:30-18:00) even if no times are displayed?  I have seen one website that says that if times are not displayed, the prohibition lasts the full 24 hours. Which would be ridiculous on rural roads. One main road between Cambridge and Haverhill has several bus lanes, with no times displayed, yet it carries only one half-hourly bus service between the termini and many villages, and none at all between about midnight and 07:00. Would one be liable to a penalty if one drove in such a lane at 3 am?

 

Oh for some common sense in the planning departments!

In Sheffield there’s one that springs to mind - Chesterfield Road - that is well signed together with the times it operates.

The infuriating thing is that people insist on not using the bus lane outside of the correct times leading to the ‘outside’ lane getting needlessly clogged up. They never seem to take the hint after being correctly passed on the ‘inside’ bus lane either! 😠

 

If no operating times are displayed then the lane operates 24/7.

Edited 27 December, 20214 yr by john999boy
Typo

I remember a couple of bus lanes in Southampton that were only in operation from x time to x time. People were so afraid of getting a ticket they remained pretty much empty leading to unnecessary congestion. Surely it's not beyond the whit of man to  have clear signage, perhaps even illuminated, to indicate when motor vehicles can use the bus lanes.

10 hours ago, OldTrilobite said:

Can one assume that rural bus lanes are open to all traffic outside rush hours (usually 07:30-09:30 and then 15:30-18:00) even if no times are displayed? 

No, if no times are displayed then the bus lane is a bus lane 24/7/365 - even if that makes no sense at all.

No times on the signs mean it's a 24/7 bus lane.  Cambridge has bus priority measures and these have been 'pushed' via such lanes.

 

Personally, even though I've been involved in bus priority measures and scheme design I hate them and think many are ridiculous for the reasons mentioned.

 

In Sheffield the local authority are pressing for 24/7 ones on two core routes into the city that have a poor frequency thinking it will increase reliability and patronage but it won't and will instead kill shops fronting the routes.  They would be far better leaving the peak hour lanes as is but enforcing them...   But they seem blind to this option and focussed on full time lanes 

9 hours ago, @Lee said:

I remember a couple of bus lanes in Southampton that were only in operation from x time to x time. People were so afraid of getting a ticket they remained pretty much empty leading to unnecessary congestion. Surely it's not beyond the whit of man to  have clear signage, perhaps even illuminated, to indicate when motor vehicles can use the bus lanes.

 

There's two in Ayr along from Tesco/the Racecourse that are like this. Both run at different times so if you're in one, you need to try and merge at a junction to get out of the way of the other one. Plus there's an added congestion due to folk not using them because the signs are tiny. 

I can not figure out the crazy new one near Edinburgh airport from leaving the airport and passing the Travelodge  heading to Newbridge / Glasgow or North.  Not been able to see yet what the signs say.  

 

EDIT..

 

Covid19 Emergency measures.

https://www.radcc.org/tag/emergency-bus-lane-a8/

 

 

'Temporary' A8 westbound.

https://edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13141/significant-progress-made-on-temporary-bus-priority-measures-across-south-east-scotland

 

Edited 27 December, 20214 yr by roottoot

Many thanks, friends, for your info and comments. I have sent a query to the Cambridge council asking for more clarity about the local bus lanes. At present, all the ones around the town seem to be 24/7, which is ludicrous when the buses are so few and far between on some routes, and at quiet times of the day carry barely a handful of passengers. I think I will try to get a bit of common sense out of our traffic planners. However, as some of you have noticed, many drivers fearfully avoid a bus lane at all times, even when they are allowed to use it!

1 hour ago, OldTrilobite said:

I think I will try to get a bit of common sense out of our traffic planners.

 

Good luck.

2 hours ago, OldTrilobite said:

I think I will try to get a bit of common sense out of our traffic planners.

 

Having spent 14 years managing a team of them you might struggle there...   many are obsessve over PT and cycling to the expense of other modes and unfortunately for drivers both are 'flavour of the moment' with lare amounts of funding available for schemes

2 hours ago, OldTrilobite said:

I will try to get a bit of common sense out of our traffic planners.

I won't hold my breath for the next several years.

14 hours ago, OldTrilobite said:

I will try to get a bit of common sense out of our traffic planners. 

In my experience the two phrases "traffic planners" and "common sense" have no connection at all.

 

In Trowbridge they are going to be closing one of the major entry roads for a week in January (and causing congestion for a further 9 weeks) to widen cycle lanes that I have never seen used by a single cycle - I gather this is to spend a grant given to them by the UK Government to "improve active travel".

On the A10 in north London a bus lane was shown in red and a sign showing end of bus lane. Roadworks had been done at the end of the bus lane but before the bus lane ends sign. The road surface was replaced with black asphalt so the unfamiliar would assume that designated the end of the bus lane. Easily caught

9 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

In my experience the two phrases "traffic planners" and "common sense" have no connection at all.

 

In Trowbridge they are going to be closing one of the major entry roads for a week in January (and causing congestion for a further 9 weeks) to widen cycle lanes that I have never seen used by a single cycle - I gather this is to spend a grant given to them by the UK Government to "improve active travel".

 

Some planners have common sense and look at the bigger picture...

 

But the grant comment is valid.  There is a lot of active travel funding available at the moment but much is time limited and schemes have to be submitted within strict timelines so are often not fully thought through it assessed otherwise they'd miss the deadlines.  Also local authorities are often desperate to get cash from somewhere to keep themselves and staff employed regardless of whether the schemes that result are worthwhile.

43 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

to widen cycle lanes that I have never seen used by a single cycle

Indeed. This prompted me to measure the distance on a route I normally use 3 days a week which has been narrowed by 1 lane each way "to create a separated cycleway. Since March, I have seen less than 1 bicycle per trip using these 3 miles. I normally see at least one bus being forced to stop in a live running lane by said cycleway,

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

In Trowbridge they are going to be closing one of the major entry roads for a week in January (and causing congestion for a further 9 weeks) to widen cycle lanes that I have never seen used by a single cycle - I gather this is to spend a grant given to them by the UK Government to "improve active travel".

The cycle lanes in Cambridge town are used, but as measured in terms of people moved per metre per hour they are economically unsuccessful.

 

Your comment on spending central government grants is probably spot on and the motive for much of these roadworks. The latest scheme includes building a cycle lane the whole 12 miles between Cambridge and my village. I would guess that this will cost the taxpayer at least ten thousand pounds per cyclist. It is part of a grand scheme for other 'improvements' on this road that the planners estimate will cost £42 million to £46 million - and we know how in practice the final cost ends up as double the estimated cost, or more.

 

1 hour ago, OldTrilobite said:

The cycle lanes in Cambridge town are used, but as measured in terms of people moved per metre per hour they are economically unsuccessful.

 

Your comment on spending central government grants is probably spot on and the motive for much of these roadworks. The latest scheme includes building a cycle lane the whole 12 miles between Cambridge and my village. I would guess that this will cost the taxpayer at least ten thousand pounds per cyclist. It is part of a grand scheme for other 'improvements' on this road that the planners estimate will cost £42 million to £46 million - and we know how in practice the final cost ends up as double the estimated cost, or more.

 

 

Those cost estimates are the bane of my life...   They are often put together at a very early stage for a Business Case by people with little or no technical design experience or skills and usually make no allowance for 'optimism bias' or 'risk' and with little knowledge of underground conditions or services.  Schemes then get the go ahead on the basis of those costs and grants are made accordingly but I've seen costs double and treble in the past once done properly, or schemes grossly cut back, downgraded or even canned completely as a result.  Or even worse funds being taken from elsewhere to complete them...

Try googling Whitelegg Way, Bournemouth. The road was originally built to supplement/bypass a fairly short narrow twisting road to give a shorter travel time, and partly to allow buses to use the old road. It is a gently curving road through a little green space, and was subject to a 40mph limit. Then the council got money to improve cycling. They built wide cycle paths each side, narrowing the road so much that there is a problem when emergency vehicles need to get through when traffic is heavy. This forces people into the kerbs. But instead of low chamfered kerbs that allow people to get out of the way without damaging their alloy wheels, the kerbs they have used are about 6 inches high on the road and the cycleway side, and instead of minor damage to wheels there is a danger of significant wheel damage, and if a car does mount the kerb and come down with one wheel on the cycleway, there is a good chance of significant damage to the bottom of the car. If this happens, of course, it will not be the council's fault.

On 28/12/2021 at 13:04, Routemaster1461 said:

 But instead of low chamfered kerbs that allow people to get out of the way without damaging their alloy wheels, the kerbs they have used are about 6 inches high on the road and the cycleway side, and instead of minor damage to wheels there is a danger of significant wheel damage,

 

Typical of the thoughless decisions made by the planning incompetents that skomaz has been writing about.

 

I was very grateful for dropped kerbs at the right-hand edge of a dual carriageway some years ago. I was overtaking two slow lorries, and alongside the rear one, when without signalling and obviously without checking his mirror, he pulled into the right hand lane. Thanks to dropped kerbs I was able to run onto the grass of the central reservation without damage. It did give me a fright though.

A little more info about rural bus lane enforcement:

 

Trying to get definite times about the rural bus lanes in South Cambridgeshire, I contacted the County Council. They told me that enforcement on the rural roads was purely a matter for the police. Although the lack of times on the bus lane notices implies that they apply 24/7, the Cambridgeshire police tell me that their view is that outside conventional rush hours (07:30-09:30 and 15:30-18:00) all available lanes can be used by other road users without risk of a penalty charge.

 

More sense than the desk-pilots in the council offices!

 

Who was the person replying, as in their actual job in the council?  Planning, roads department, law department? Who in the Police actually replied?    How would police officers deal with this, stop vehicles and then charge with what offence and how would the NIP be issued. 

One way streets, no entry to motorised traffic etc are clearly signposted as are 'Loading Only', 'no parking' or any restrictions, display the times that apply.

They would need guidelines. 

 Plenty Bus lane use offences were overturned in Aberdeen.  The legal requirement of advertised notices of times then signposting had not happened.    The word of written answers of some random Council Official or Police Officer is not enough for By-law or Traffic Law enforcement.     Go to council planning meeting minutes and published documentation.   Ask council officials to provide the correct information.  Use the public library or the likes of the internet.   

 

England does have different laws, (& police) and then Boris said they would change for 1st time mistakes,

but maybe Failing Grayling never got those changes done.

 

https://www.mygov.scot/bus-lane-penalties

 

Edited 31 December, 20214 yr by roottoot