Hi
A month and a half ago I had a problem with "Misfire Detected", in cylinder 1 and cylinder 4 (P0301, P0304) and also "Random / Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected" (P0300).
I replaced the COIL, ignition wires and plugs.
(COIL - simple from China... plugs - NGK. ignition wires - NGK.)
Until today everything was fine ...
Today I had almost the same problems again ...
(Attaches the test ...)
Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?
Thank you!🙏

Log-111-TMBJN25J6E3037014-242160km-150471mi.txt Log-1111-TMBJN25J6E3037014-242160km-150471mi.txt

Until more knowledgeable people arrive I will give you my thoughts.

 

If you did not have a scan tool would you know there was any misfires, and if so what problems are the misfire causing.

 

Did you try swapping the HT leads and/or plugs (keeping correct firing order) on 1 and 4 to see if the misfire moved with the swapped items.

 

NGK plugs and HT leads should be good, items from China can be very good or not.

 

I did not notice a time for the door fault if it is the same as misfires that could be related.

 

Checked the readings of engine sensors, coolant sensor.

 

Done a longer live data on scan tool to get more record of misfires.

 

Have you been through the servicing items like air filter, fuel filter, clean inside air intakes and no vacuum leaks, checked gaskets, connections of hoses, trunking and electrics.  Checked level and condition of coolant and engine oil, battery charge and connections including earths.

 

What about a compression test on the engine,

 

That is me out of ideas.

 

As this is a waste spark system, plugs 1/ 4 fire together and plugs 2/3 fire together every rev of the engine. So misfires on 1and 4 strongly indicates an ignition issue rather than fuelling or anything else.

 

Have you used the correct plugs IZFR6P7 ?

 

Are the plugs and leads from a reputable UK source, i.e. genuine?

 

Have you made sure  the spark plug connectors are fully pushed home, they take quite a hefty push to finally get them home, especially if you haven't used any spark plug insulator grease. (No grease should be ever used on the spark plug threads)

 

Have you at any point taken the connectors off by pulling the lead. That is a sure way to break the lead core. You can check the lead by measuring its resistance end to end, it should be around 9 kkohm. Always use a suitable tool to pull the metal cap of the connector and never pull the lead. If a lead is open circuit or not properly connected that can damage the coil due to over voltage.

 

If you have plugs out the resistance tip to connector is 1 kohm.

 

That leaves the Chinese coil....maybe try swapping back your old one.

 

Good luck

11 minutes ago, xman said:

Have you used the correct plugs IZFR6P7 ?

yes.

12 minutes ago, xman said:

Are the plugs and leads from a reputable UK source, i.e. genuine?

original 100%.

 

16 minutes ago, xman said:

Have you made sure  the spark plug connectors are fully pushed home, they take quite a hefty push to finally get them home, especially if you haven't used any spark plug insulator grease. (No grease should be ever used on the spark plug threads)

 

Have you at any point taken the connectors off by pulling the lead. That is a sure way to break the lead core. You can check the lead by measuring its resistance end to end, it should be around 9 kkohm. Always use a suitable tool to pull the metal cap of the connector and never pull the lead. If a lead is open circuit or not properly connected that can damage the coil due to over voltage.

 

If you have plugs out the resistance tip to connector is 1 kohm.

I think it's right there ...
And I do not currently have the voltage meter ...

 

18 minutes ago, xman said:

That leaves the Chinese coil....maybe try swapping back your old one.

🤒On the one hand the most logical, on the other hand the old and the new show the same problem, does not that indicate that it is something else ?!🤔

 

Thanks🙏

35 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Did you try swapping the HT leads and/or plugs (keeping correct firing order) on 1 and 4 to see if the misfire moved with the swapped items.

When I tried to change it once showed P0303 ..
And another time the engine shook ...

39 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I did not notice a time for the door fault if it is the same as misfires that could be related.

It's been like this for several years, and has not caused any problems ...😊

 

Thank you🙏

Swap 1 & 4 with 2 & 3 and see if the misfires move.

 

If you test the HT leads (ETA: not live but with a multimeter) try to do it with the lead still clipped and shaped as fitted, just in case it's not the ends.

  

Edited 18 January, 20224 yr by nta16
ETA:

I missed your post, this computer is playing up.

 

5 minutes ago, moshe5342 said:

When I tried to change it once showed P0303 ..

Is that not just misfire on 3(?).

 

 

6 minutes ago, moshe5342 said:

It's been like this for several years, and has not caused any problems ...😊

Fair enough, a bit of straw clutching, but like my computer now the car's computers can sometimes play up in weird and strange ways (but never wonderful).

 

I think xman has given you a path to follow.

 

Be very careful if messing with live HT leads and ignition, I know of someone who had a very bad and long lasting problem from doing so, be correctly insulated.

 

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I missed your post, this computer is playing up.

 

Is that not just misfire on 3(?).

 

 

Fair enough, a bit of straw clutching, but like my computer now the car's computers can sometimes play up in weird and strange ways (but never wonderful).

 

I think xman has given you a path to follow.

 

Be very careful if messing with live HT leads and ignition, I know of someone who had a very bad and long lasting problem from doing so, be correctly insulated.

 

I'll try tomorrow ...😴

Thanks again

23 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Swap 1 & 4 with 2 & 3 and see if the misfires move.

  

I think @nta16 means swap the leads, but keep the connection coil to plugs rhe same. Not sure that lead 2 will be long enough to reach no 1.

 

If @moshe5342still has the old leads, the easiest thing would be to test them for resistance (9k) to check they were the original reason for the misfires.

 

From my personal experience is that if you leave the (NGK) plugs in too long (40,000 miles max) then the wear on the ground electrode on iirc cylinder 1 and cylinder 3 causes the platinum disc on them to fall off, accelerating ground electrode wear greatly. This increases the spark peak voltage, which leads to breakdown internally in the coil, initially intermittently before permanently. Spark plugs 2 and 4 don't suffer ground electrode wear because the spark voltage is opposite polarity with it being a waste spark ignition system

 

The other common failure seen on earlier engines with unsheathed leads are the leads, especially no.3 lead would rest close to the exhaust/turboshield and fail due to excessive temperature, the internal core goes open circuit and sparks internally, increasing the peak voltage and killing the coil.

 

Hope some of this information is useful to some

 

 

Edited 18 January, 20224 yr by xman

5 minutes ago, xman said:

I think @nta16 means swap the leads, but keep the connection coil to plugs rhe same. Not sure that lead 2 will be long enough to reach no 1.

Er, whatever keeps the firing correct but fully tests out the leads and the plugs, using the old leads if they are still available, I think unclipped 2 would get to 1 but possibly it's the clipping and position of the leads that might cause a problem.

 

Again if testing the old leads with a multimeter it would best to do it with them clipped into position as it might be the bends or clipping that causes and exposes the problem where as as measuring them just laid out straight or just looped might not. I am not a big fan of cheap digital multimeters are they can soon be unreliable but if you test the meter against a known results before each test then that should help confirm readings more.

 

I doubt if swapping around the new plugs would prove much now given the misfire went to 3 before.

 

I have next to no idea (or even less) about these ignition systems but with the old systems especially with electronic added there can be strange and intermittent faults that need certain circumstances to play up but are fine otherwise.

 

Ideal solution is to put or swap the parts one at a time with another same model car that is running well to see if/when it gets the misfires and you don't.  🤣

 

Good luck.

 

That cheap coil will be no good, buy a branded unit, I learnt the hard way and eventually bought a Delphi unit which wasn't much more expensive.

 

Live and learn.

Just updating ...
I decided to start a COIL test.
Because it's the only thing that's not original ...
I did a test with VCDS in LIVE-DATA mode ...
Cylinder 1 and 4 had a lot of "MISFIRE" PER 1000 RPM ...
I switched to the old COIL (which also had problems in the past ...), the vehicle works really without problems (currently ...)
After the replacement, I did another test with VCDS in LIVE-DATA mode, and there were some "MISFIRE", but much less (the vehicle did not shake, nor did the engine light come on)
Is it okay to have a little "MISFIRE", or should it not be at all?

2 minutes ago, moshe5342 said:

Just updating ...
I decided to start a COIL test.
Because it's the only thing that's not original ...
I did a test with VCDS in LIVE-DATA mode ...
Cylinder 1 and 4 had a lot of "MISFIRE" PER 1000 RPM ...
I switched to the old COIL (which also had problems in the past ...), the vehicle works really without problems (currently ...)
After the replacement, I did another test with VCDS in LIVE-DATA mode, and there were some "MISFIRE", but much less (the vehicle did not shake, nor did the engine light come on)
Is it okay to have a little "MISFIRE", or should it not be at all?

 

Buy a good quality coil if you want to get rid of all the misfires.

Buying a "cheap" part can often turn out to be more expensive than buying a more expensive but good quality.

 

hi

Advice help...🙈

After some homework, I realized that these are suitable and should be of good quality ...

1. Bosch 0986221048

2. ngk 48010

Anyone know which one is more recommended?

🙏

"eldor 77030001" - The original I have now ... I do not see that it is possible to buy such a new one ...

32 minutes ago, moshe5342 said:

hi

Advice help...🙈

After some homework, I realized that these are suitable and should be of good quality ...

1. Bosch 0986221048

2. ngk 48010

Anyone know which one is more recommended?

🙏

 

Either will be fine.

Out of personal choice I would always go (genuine) Japanese over German especially if I was keeping the car for a while.

27 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Out of personal choice I would always go (genuine) Japanese over German especially if I was keeping the car for a while.

 

Highly unlikely that a genuine NGK ignition coil is made in Japan, most likely South Africa or France

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGK

 

Bosch parts are often just rebranded items so could even be an NGK manufactured part.

Or made anywhere in the world from Germany through most of Europe and yes...China. I returned Bosch discs when the box said made in China

 

https://dslidingdoors.blogspot.com/2020/04/bosch-ignition-coil-made-in-slovenia.html?m=1

 

Choose a reputable supplier like Opieoils or even Eurocarparts, theres a lot of fake aito stuff out there on ebay and amazon etc.

17 minutes ago, xman said:

theres a lot of fake aito stuff out there on ebay and amazon etc.

From Amazon ... just like you said ..

Finally, I ordered from here:

https://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-ngk-ignition-coil-u2003-48010.html

hope it will be ok, thanks everyone !!

There's nothing wrong with Delphi stuff, they're an OEM just like Bosch.

 

You're paying extra for the quality control, unbranded stuff may well come from exactly the same Chinese factory but it's usually failed QA checks and doesn't make the grade for an OE supplier.

 

This quaint notion that there's hundreds of factories making exactly the same part is simply not true, there are a few big players and the parts are graded and may use different specs internally, with ignition coils the money can be saved on the copper wire so weight is a good indicator, if you could weigh all the different specs you'd find a direct correlation with price.

3 hours ago, xman said:

Highly unlikely that a genuine NGK ignition coil is made in Japan, most likely South Africa or France

Yes I did wonder, the genuine was actually for Japan rather than counterfeit, I know Bosch is often just a label but there are so many changes and take overs in manufacturing and sub-contracts to sub-contracting that until the item turns up you don't know where it's made and then who knows what "Made in ..." actually means, they might even be just referring to the box. 😄

 

You certainly can not go on old brand names as the name might be used/owned by two or more companies, like Lucas.

 

 

2 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

There's nothing wrong with Delphi stuff, they're an OEM just like Bosch.

I was about to put if I peeled off a Bosch label to find Delphi I'd be happier.

 

Edited 21 January, 20224 yr by nta16
forgot the word 'not'

moshe5342, Green Spark Plug seem a good company and unlikely to source from unreliable suppliers (but anyone can be caught out by counterfeit supplies, even the car dealerships, unless it was deliberate).

 

It would be interesting to me if you were able to report back if the NGK coil or its box shows what country it was made in, just out of interest, thank you.

 

5 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

There's nothing wrong with Delphi stuff...

 

That's what the replacement coil pack in my Fabia is. Got me back on the road so I have no complaints.