Oil temperature and DPF

[J.R.]

Its the fuel wastage that concerns me Langers that and the heat generated, the fans running on after every local journey unless I go for a long drive to let it do its thing. If I still had a functioning EGR it would fail in very short order.

 

When you get to the stage of at least once a week arriving home shutting down & then having to go drive up & down the hill to the aéroport several times until the idle drops to  850rpm again there is something wrong, the car is supposed to serve my needs not the opposite.

[langers2k]

I think this thread is starting to get slightly lost. Any issues facing J.R.s 'fixed' EA189 and unlikely to be linked with the OP's EA288.

 

You already know your problem J.R. - your 'fixed' EA189 likes to regen too often, the blanked EGR might not be helping with this. The next step is still to try and get the engine 'unfixed' to see if the older software helps. I doubt it uses that much more fuel and I'd argue a bricked shaped Yeti with 4x4 will never be the most fuel efficient choice. There is nothing wrong with interrupting a regen and you don't need to continue the drive. If the car needs help with the DPF, it'll put a warning light on!

 

As for the OP, I can't see how a DPF issue will cause low oil temperatures. If anything, it's more likely a failed thermostat will cause low oil temperatures and may hinder DPF regens.

 

If I were them, I'd get a suitable VAG specific tool (or local member with VCDS) to check for codes and post them here. I'd also go for a 30 minute drive while logging the water and oil temperature from the ECU rather than the instrument cluster. That'll give a better idea of what the problem might be rather than guessing.

[MishuMk3]

On 24/01/2022 at 12:59, langers2k said:

I never found an official limit for the oil ash volume. On some forums they mention 175ml but plenty of folk have reported 200-250ml or even 300ml+. That suggests that nothing happens assuming it can still burn the soot off.

 

I never saw much of a correlation between measured and calculated soot mass so that's completely normal. I don't think 'calculated mass' takes into account passive regen so it often much higher.

 

The 45g limit only applies to soot mass, if it hits 45g it's no longer safe to regenerate so needs replacing or removing for cleaning. This is completely unrelated to the oil ash volume.

Hello,

For 2.0 tdi 110kw 2016 max oil ash mass is 80 grams.

Soot is what burns during regeneration....ash is what is left in the DPF after regeneration... and slowly killing it.

My case: i had 111,2 grams/ 0,27l of ash in the dpf   (the car was regenerating every 5 to 10 km) and it was full of ash....white powder, turbocharger variable geometry blocked and hot side of turbocharger covered in sticky white powder

[J.R.]

How did you come by those figures Mishu?

 

Are they the values that VCDS (or similar) were giving for oil ash or was that what was measured/weighed during a DPF clean?

 

Also where did you get the correlation between the mass and volume?

 

I am pretty excited about the latter, if its from a reliable source then it would indicate that my ECU thinks I have 45g of oil ash so I have some breathing space and its probably a pessimistic figure in my case.

 

Was your DPF cleaned or replaced?

 

Did you see a big difference?

 

What is the frequency of regens now?

 

It's good to finally know what to expect when mine becomes clogged, that it wont just shut down and I will have plenty of warnings by the frequent regens.

[J.R.]

Langers.

 

Thanks again for your advice, fuel economy on the Yeti is poor compared with the previous Octavias, it's not just the fuel being consumed during the regens but the bore wash that I am concerned about, if it had a 5th injector into the exhaust manifold I would be more cool about it.

 

Yes I realise that I can interrupt the regens but given my short journey cycles since Covid once it has started its better to let it finish, if not then it will try and fail again every journey, the other thing is having been stuck here before for more than a week waiting for a battery I am a bit paranoid and take good care of the one fitted, I just dont like walking away hearing a fan running consuming honky-tonk watts because one day it may not stop after the required time.

 

I am not spending enough time or long enough visits in the UK to get the emissions fix unfixed, the only place I knwo that can do it is in Cornwall, the people whose remap I have, it was installed by one of their agents but they can't do the rollback.

 

Would you or anyone else know of someone competent in the South East area that could do it for me?

[langers2k]

The 80g oil ash limit likely only applies to some EA288 engines and not the EA189 you have J.R.

 

I believe the 80g figure comes from the VAG DPF app on Android as the screenshots typically suggest 80g as a max. Not sure where it's developer got the figure from.

 

As to roll back stuff, I haven't got any suggestions I'm afraid. It'll depend if you're a simple or complex case

- I'm sure we've spoken about it before, if there is a pre-fix update for your ECU then I believe roll-back is just flashing the older version.

- If there is no such update, then it's harder as you'll need a tuner who has a backup of a pre-fix version.

[MishuMk3]

10 hours ago, J.R. said:

How did you come by those figures Mishu?

 

Are they the values that VCDS (or similar) were giving for oil ash or was that what was measured/weighed during a DPF clean?

 

Also where did you get the correlation between the mass and volume?

 

I am pretty excited about the latter, if its from a reliable source then it would indicate that my ECU thinks I have 45g of oil ash so I have some breathing space and its probably a pessimistic figure in my case.

 

Was your DPF cleaned or replaced?

 

Did you see a big difference?

 

What is the frequency of regens now?

 

It's good to finally know what to expect when mine becomes clogged, that it wont just shut down and I will have plenty of warnings by the frequent regens.

All the figures are measured with VCDS.

The correlation between the mass and volume is given by VCDS in two separated channels.

45Grams of oil ash does not mean that dpf life is finished.... 70 grams is the service limit for EA 189.

The DPF was replaced with a good working condition one from a damaged car with not so many km( visually inspected with an endoscopic video camera, and manually tested with a thin copper wire inserted through some of the channels of the filter on the direction that gases are flowing).

Before changing the DPF the car was regenerating every 5 to 10 km, with a differential pressure of 35 to 50 hpa/milibar on idling, now differential pressure is between 3 and 7 hpa, and the car is regenerating about 350 km mixed driving.....i think this is ok for EA288 engine.

[J.R.]

Thankyou ever so much for that, I have not found the seperate channel on VCDS or if I did amongst the thousands it will have been another one that said "not supported" or whatever the term is, if you can tell me what the name of it was then I will look again.

 

After years of searching you have finally given me the Holy Grail, the differential pressure at idle of a blocked and free flowing DPF so I will be checking mine today.

 

Mine is currently regenning between 210km on autoroutes working very very hard and 90km in urban use, I expect that I will find that the differential pressure will correspond to that, at least I will know that I need to clean the DPF.

[J.R.]

Does the idle differential pressure rise as the soot level approaches the regen threshold?

 

If so I guess I should test after a regen, when were your new readings taken?

[MishuMk3]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Does the idle differential pressure rise as the soot level approaches the regen threshold?

 

If so I guess I should test after a regen, when were your new readings taken?

Yes it does...but not that much, on idle you should get 12-13 hpa.

 

What is your value now?

[MishuMk3]

13 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Thankyou ever so much for that, I have not found the seperate channel on VCDS or if I did amongst the thousands it will have been another one that said "not supported" or whatever the term is, if you can tell me what the name of it was then I will look again.

 

After years of searching you have finally given me the Holy Grail, the differential pressure at idle of a blocked and free flowing DPF so I will be checking mine today.

 

Mine is currently regenning between 210km on autoroutes working very very hard and 90km in urban use, I expect that I will find that the differential pressure will correspond to that, at least I will know that I need to clean the DPF.

VCDS Version 20.4.2

Engine- Advanced Measuring Values:

IDE 00433- Oil ash volume

IDE 00434- Soot mass calculated

IDE 00435- soot mass measured

IDE 06059- oil ash mass

IDE 06060- filter ash load limit

 

I hope it helps with your car and with your version of VCDS.

[J.R.]

Brilliant thanks, when I get the courage to go out and brave the high winds I will check, in the meantime I will connect the dongle within wifi range as I think my version is 19.6, an upgrade will help.

[BogdanB]

1 hour ago, MishuMk3 said:

Yes it does...but not that much, on idle you should get 12-13 hpa.

 

What is your value now?

The value can be a bit higher if the idle is sitting at 1000rpm

[J.R.]

Just checked, I have version 21.9.

[PetrolDave]

Just now, J.R. said:

Just checked, I have version 21.9.

That's the latest version 

[MishuMk3]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

Just checked, I have version 21.9.

That's even better....it is the latest version...😀

[MishuMk3]

5 minutes ago, BogdanB said:

The value can be a bit higher if the idle is sitting at 1000rpm

You are wright.

[J.R.]

I have just found some notes from a previous scan taken about 4k miles ago.

 

Differential pressure at idle = 6 Hpa, at 2.5K RPM = 40Hpa, it was then regenning after 320kms

 

The field regen service limit was 22.89g, I must look to see if I can increase that.

 

The pressure readings may be different now since I have adapted the sensor a couple of times.

 

The high winds are getting worse so it probably won't be today.

[MishuMk3]

I see good values.

With the ignition on, engine not idling what is the differential pressure sensor value? 

I think it should show 0( zero).

 

[J.R.]

Agreed, I have done the adaptation to reset the offset several times, on subsequent checking the reading without the engine running it can be plus or minus 1Hpa which I consider normal, atmospheric pressure varies.

 

The initial offset was substantial, since my adaptations it has always been minor, I suspect that the sensor may have been replaced in the past but never adapted.

[MishuMk3]

I have just checked one 1,6 l, CAYC engine Octavia 2FL 2011 229630km

The measured figures are:

 

IDE 00427- difference pressure sensor- 5,56hPa

IDE 00433- oil ash mass -56,32 grams

IDE 00434- soot mass calculated - 11,56 grams

IDE 00435- soot mass measured - 2,76 grams

 

Regeneration took place 76km ago.

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

since my adaptations it has always been minor

Did you played around with the ash mass value, in the sense of adapting it?

[J.R.]

No and yes, the adaptions were always just setting the sensor offset, however the last time I did tell the system that a new DPF had been fitted, nothing ventured nothing gained!!!!!

 

Thanks for the additional figures, tomorrow I will connect up and look for that elusive IDE06059.

 

I'm sure that I have seen the IDE06060 before but they both are so far down the menu structure that by that time I am goggle eyed after clicking on parameters and finding they are not supported, the oil ash mass should be with the other parameters at IDE 433, 435 and 435.

[J.R.]

I found the measuring block IDE6059 for oil ash mass, it was there all along 😳, trouble is now that my curiosity made me tell the ECU that the DPF has been changed it is showing zero like the oil ash volume.

 

The car has done 134kms since the last regen and looks to be more than halfway to the next at a claculated 12g of soot, measured is half that, it has all been local short journeys so I guess to be expected.

 

The DPF diff pressure readings (134kms since regen are now 9Hpa at idle rising slowly to 70Hpa at the 2.5krpm stationary rev limit, worse than they were before but nothing to worry about yet, my journey profile since the lockdown has not been a good one for a DPF equipped diesel engine, the imminent  change to Life Version 4.0 will mean a change to better journeys for the engine.

[MishuMk3]

Hello,

 

It is not a good idea to set this value to 0(zero) unless you have changed the dpf with a new or professionally cleaned one.

I would suggest you to set the value for the oil ash mass according to the kilometers on the instrument cluster.

After  you do this the car will regenerate, and it will start again from 18-24% depending on what ECU will say.

[J.R.]

I'm not sure that it can be set with a value, I think it was either a 1 for existing DPF or 0 for the new one.

 

I agree that it would be better for me to reset it to an approx correct value if it can be done, and I will try to do so but the problem I now have is that having reset it to zero before learning that the oil ash mass was actually being recorded I never got to see what it was it before so don't know what figure to put in if indeed it is possible.

 

Car has done 103 or 104K miles (too cold and dark to go out and check) oil ash volume was showing at 0.11 litres having clocked up from 0.1 litres at 100K miles.