Shame on the UK Government & Government Ministers & the Tory Party for the arrangement they are coming to with Rwanda.

[@Lee]

@ApertureS
Source; https://www.berlin.de/fluechtlinge/en/information-for-refugees/benefits/

Some further reading;

https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migration-to-the-uk-asylum/

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/files/2021-01/Amnesty International UK - Safe and Legal Routes Briefing_0.pdf

Edited 18 April, 2022 by @Lee

[ApertureS]

14 minutes ago, roottoot said:

The UK Government  knows how to make people unwelcome. 

This sums it up basically.

[StevesTruck]

I'd disagree, I've seen the 4 star hotels that the Government is renting in their entirety to house Afgans.*

 

*This post may contain traces of inconvenient truth, if it melts your snowflake, feel free to call me a racist if it makes you feel morally superior.

[Ootohere]

Check out where MP's will be staying in London tomorrow night after the PM makes an announcement in parliament and he meets up later with them all for a get together.

That will be hotels, private clubs and friends places or their London accommodation that Tax Payers will cover the cost of even if they have property they own in London. 

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/anne-marie-trevelyan-expenses-rent-22171032

 

 

 

Edited 18 April, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, StevesTruck said:

I'd disagree, I've seen the 4 star hotels that the Government is renting in their entirety to house Afgans.*

 

*This post may contain traces of inconvenient truth, if it melts your snowflake, feel free to call me a racist if it makes you feel morally superior.

Asylum seekers are perfectly entitled to reside in clean and well maintained accommodation whilst their claims are being processed.

Do you think they should be housed in overcrowded cages like animals as has been done in the US?

Some have already been subjected to living in overcrowded ex MOD accomodation where they've had rampant COVID due to no ability to isolate properly. Let alone the abuse they get from locals should they venture out.

These are Human Beings FFS.

Where's the compassion gone? Maybe it was never there in some cases.

I hope nobody will be calling anybody a racist but I'm sure there's a few on this site that are*.

Likewise throwing terms like snowflake around aren't helpful.

 

 

*I know for a fact there are but they tend to keep their heads down now.

 

From two years ago. If I see something more up to date I'll add it.

"Hotels sometimes serve as initial accommodation until a person moves to longer-term housing, though hostel-type accommodation is more commonly used than hotels. ( here ) ."

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-uk-housing-48000-illegal-im-idUSKCN2592DV

Edited 18 April, 2022 by @Lee

[StevesTruck]

I think it would be lovely if everyone could live somewhere nice. Sadly, life isn't like that. There's plenty of people in this country that struggle for their whole lives and live in substandard, often overpriced, accomodation, either private sector or social housing, or are homeless. So... Yeah, I do feel there's something a bit imbalanced when I see new arrivals getting put up in a 4 star.

 

Obviously, that's only something I've seen happening with my own eyes, rather than what I've read, so you can choose what to believe there. 

 

[Ootohere]

There is terrible deprivation & poverty in the UK.

 

Yesterday the reports were on the terrible accommodation and conditions that those that had suffered domestic abuse were living in having been re-homed.

 

This is the issue with Government & Councils that there are in the UK.

More bothered about spending on the Queens Celebrations this year or the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham in 100 days. 

This will be like the Olympics in 2012 probably, nice accommodation for a while for a few then someone can make nice money out of it after the event.

Floral Displays and art works and stuff that are for the few to see can have millions spent on it rather than stuff to improve peoples lives long term. 

 

The 96 year old lady should have told them to get a grip and stop being stupid and wasting money and go build some homes for the less comfortable multi home owners like her.

 

 

 

 

 

Last year it was on holding Cop26 and looking at building a bridge to Northern Ireland.

It will be a new Britannia getting built that will be the next vanity project.

 

The UK Government never really bother getting 'Job Creation Projects' properly in place with Apprenticeships & Training and building and home repairs and building.

Not even for those that suffer flood damage in area after area around the UK. 

 

Everything always has to be left to charities when charities struggle to get income because so many are trying to get money from a population that need help themselves from charities. 

 

The UK is not a poor country, just one run very poorly but people very much out of touch with how those with little have to live.

 

MP's, MSP's those looking to be elected as councillors in May and others need to maybe open their eyes as they are going around pre elections knocking doors and then do something about getting the 'Unemployed & available to work out improving housing stock and improving their local areas with Tax Payers money used to purchase materials, pay for training, wages and administration. 

 

Some people might only have to travel a few hundred yards to be doing work 'Community Improvement work' in their own areas.

Councillors & Members of Parliament can give a day or 2 of their working week to be involved in the Local Community work and not just turn up for photo opportunities or because it is coming up to elections.

 

It does help maybe if just someone takes a hand brush and pan and does a bit of a clean up and uses some Ant Powder / Spray and deal with stuff as it occurs.

 

Brandon Lewis MP is the Minister put out today to give the spiel to the people.

Yet another snouter who liked to be comfortable at tax payers expense. 

Edited 19 April, 2022 by roottoot

[cheezemonkhai]

On 17/04/2022 at 22:35, roottoot said:

?

Did they not say that it could not be shown as being value for money?  Different thing. 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61126360

 

So Boris might as well be way this week.

Papers tomorrow and Partygate will cause more Tories to be touching cloth.   Boris is just a party animal. 

 

Probably true, because I saw/heard a headline in passing and what is in a headline is often not the whole truth, just what makes the rest sound juicy

[cheezemonkhai]

Page 15, 16 and 17...

 

https://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html

 

There are quite a few clauses that suggest there are reasons people would no longer be a refugee.

What is interesting is the news would have you believe the UK is evil for turning away criminals, however it's defined in the text as a serious non-political crime being a genuine reason to no longer be classed as a refugee.

 

Also note the temporary nature of refugee status and the reasons people are not considered refugees.

 

I imagine the reason so many from the commonwealth countries come (and generally work very hard), is likely related to the UK granting any Empire/ex-empire citizen additional rights in the 1940's.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

Edited 19 April, 2022 by cheezemonkhai
Link in wrong place - Clarify

[Ootohere]

Hard working families is what Politicians always speak about at GE time and at budgets.

 

There is no issue with Hard Working people that contribute to the country. 

The UK pays out to anyone hard working or not, that live in the UK or not.  Even Winter Fuel Payments are paid to people that do not live in the UK but might or might have lived in the UK at some point, or are just British Passport Holders. 

 

Not sure why people from Hong Kong that have never lived in the UK are not going to Rwanda to live with the 5 year visa and work towards a permanent residence. 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

Sorry, I clearly missed this, are you saying that "ex-pats" living in spain would get paid winter fuel allowances?

That is mad and clearly shows that the system needs a complete overhaul.

 

Personally if people come here, work and pay their taxes then as long as they are not involved in criminal activity they are welcome.

I did mention it earlier, but part of the problem is that the benefit payments are available without having paid into the system are too generous.

That is the same for people born here who can't be bothered to get a job or for those coming.

 

People complain about increasing costs of labour, but frankly when you have to pay benefits to those in work because salaries are too low then something is a bit broken. Of course if you built council houses and included reasonable heating in the rent, which were avilable to those on working benefits then you wouldn't need to increase the benefits which then go straight into the pockets of landlords. That however is very OT and for a completely different thread.

Edited 19 April, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

Living in many countries gets you winter fuel payments even after Brexit.  Including Switzerland.        A British passport is enough to get many much in the UK even if they never did a day's work in their life.       That British Passport might not allow you to stay or work in many commonwealth countries.  

[cheezemonkhai]

4 hours ago, roottoot said:

Living in many countries gets you winter fuel payments even after Brexit.  Including Switzerland.        A British passport is enough to get many much in the UK even if they never did a day's work in their life.       That British Passport might not allow you to stay or work in many commonwealth countries.  

Broken, as much for Brit’s in name only taking the pee. I’d far rather spend money on a family who have come to the UK and work than on someone who has a uk passport and is on a jolly in another country.

Edited 19 April, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[@Lee]

Priti Patel's having a time of it today including from her own side. Theresa May, the former PM and a former Home Secretary has said of Patel's Rwanda plan "I do not support it, on the grounds of legality, practicality and efficacy"

Patel also said the £120,000,000 being given to Rwanda will boost their economy. Nice for Rwanda. Probably even more nice for the dictator Kagame who'll no doubt trouser a large chunk for himsel. 
 

Johnson, the first PM in history to have been found guilty of a crime and has received a fine for partygate, is due to speak at 16:30 but he'll probably be late. Maybe because the idiot brother of Jermemy Corbyn is having an anti-vax demo outside the gates used to drive the Prime Ministerial car into Parliament. 
The only words I want to hear from Johnson is 'I resign'. Edited 19 April, 2022 by @Lee

[@Lee]

Yvette Cooper seems to be on top of her game and has actually done the sums and looked into the detail. Not surprising as she's quite good at holding people to account in the Select Committee meetings.
 

[leckman]

Work with France and Belgium to stop the people smugglers?,those two nations are turning a blind eye to the criminal’s because they are getting rid of their problem ie all the refugees in their countries.Here’s an idea,send all of the MPs to Rwanda they will not be missed!.

[Ootohere]

Yesterday the Tories were on about 'smugglers'. People Smugglers.  And people in small  boats and risk to life.   So hidden in a lorry or a hold of a ship would be Smuggling.  On a small open boat in the English Channel the busiest shipping lane in the world is Transporting,. Trafficing if you like.  They set off expecting to be escorted in.    They openly travel across continental Europe.    The UK government might as well have the Royal Navy collecting them from the French beach or at harbours and get them to the British coast and then process and send back, or put for processing if saving lives is their actual intention.    If they cared really. 

[Mickvrs220]

Apparently in the last week not a single migrant has crossed the channel ,not bad when the average for this year has been 78 per day ,hopefully shipping them to rwanda might be putting em off .

Edited 28 April, 2022 by Mickvrs220

[J.R.]

On 20/04/2022 at 14:11, roottoot said:

The UK government might as well have the Royal Navy collecting them from the French beach or at harbours and get them to the British coast and then process and send back, or put for processing if saving lives is their actual intention.    If they cared really.

An interesting concept.

 

The French have been doing that for decades, sans papiers (illegals) present themselves at the first Gendarmerie or border post once arriving in the country either by land or sea and are given a travel warrant and some funds to take them to Calais, many stop at the encampments in Paris where they are regularly given the same treatment often with coaches chartered to make sure they get there.

 

In the past there were reception centres run by charities funded by the government, after diplomatic talks an agreement was made to demolish the centre at Coquelles and that was when the shanty town migrant camps at the ports sprung up, the charities now visit the camps, it's all done to facilitate their passage across the channel, every evening you see a throng of desperate humanity walking to the port, the Eurotunnel terminal, the lorry parks etc, those who are unsuccessfull return in the back of vans driven by the Gendarmes & Police Municipale, its all very friendly, nobody is arrested and they leave saying "see you again tomorrow at the same time"................

 

The problem for the UK is when the sucessfull ones reach the UK shore or are rescued/escorted in from outside the French shoreline they cannot be sent back, they will have destroyed their identity documents, they are clearly not French citizens so where would they be "sent back" to?

 

The answer is now Rwanda and even the possibility of it happening seems to have had a major effect without a penny being spent and more importantly no lives being risked in the last week.

[Ootohere]

@J.R.   do you mean not a penny of UK money being spent?   Millions will have already been.  We will find out eventually.   Then planned changes in push back at sea were dropped before legal challenges started.  Reason being now the navy are responsible.   ? Are people no longer risking their lives in small boats coming to the English coast?      There is no bill passed yet allowing relocating to people to Rwanda. 

[Ootohere]

PS.  I see the government site says None were detected crossing.   So assuming none did cross undetected.   Maybe Borders Agency need to look how many they have missed coming in other ways.    Figures on undetected will be zero.  

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

An interesting concept.

 

The French have been doing that for decades, sans papiers (illegals)

It's NOT illegal to flee war. It's NOT illegal to seek asylum. Refugees are NOT 'illegals'.

Stop believing what some media write and would have you believe. 

[@Lee]

8 hours ago, Mickvrs220 said:

Apparently in the last week not a single migrant has crossed the channel ,not bad when the average for this year has been 78 per day ,hopefully shipping them to rwanda might be putting em off .

There've been many periods where the number of people crossing the Channel has flat-lined. I wonder if some people have just cherry-picked another period where the numbers have flat-lined. What was the weather like in the Channel last week? 

[J.R.]

On 28/04/2022 at 13:17, @Lee said:

It's NOT illegal to flee war. It's NOT illegal to seek asylum. Refugees are NOT 'illegals'.

Stop believing what some media write and would have you believe. 

I believe what I see and know in my country thankyou, sans papiers are illegal, they have no legal status, nobody mentioned fleeing war or seeking asylum which the people in question have not done in France, nonetheless had they fled a war or more to the point claimed to do so as they have destroyed their identity documents and had they made a claim for asylum (quite pointless after destroying any supporting documentation) whilst they are sans papiers they would remain illegal.

 

It would have been more helpful had you suggested a better translation rather than having a pop, I could have said "in a situation of irregularity" but that literal translation of the only French synonym that I know makes little sense in English, illegal (immigrants) does.

[Ootohere]

Waiting to hear that Priti Patel authorised buying out all People Trafficers / shippers and buying all the small rubber boats in France & around Continental Europe and the UK now own this trade.

 

It makes total sense as to why nobody has been coming in.

But then the UK Government and agencies can not run a pith up in a brewery or much else it seems like setting up checking Imports from Continental Europe at UK ports. 

 

Funnily the UK has taken back control of it's borders by allowing food stuff including animal and seafood products into the UK more freely than pre the UK leaving the EU.