Hi all,

 

First post here.

 

I bought a 2015 Scout 150 last September. One owner from new and FSSH 70k on clock.

 

Car drives great but I've always been underwhelmed by the performance, particularly the torque, low down torque is pitiful.

 

For context, my previous car was a 2010 2.0TDCI Focus estate, which despite being boring to look at went like **** off a stick.

 

I'm not sure if I've just been spoilt by the torque in the focus which was a much lighter car. Overtaking on a single carriageway road in the Scout is just not possible most of the time though. Only when you have a massive straight where you can see for miles. Not very reassuring.

 

No fault codes logged and I've recently serviced with genuine bits including fuel and air filter but no change.

 

You just don't feel the kind of turbo boost and torque I am used to from diesels.

 

The selling dealer changed the cam.belt and W/P before I bought it. Could it be a tooth out or would that put a light on?

 

Any thoughts welcome

 

Am I just expecting too much?

 

Thanks

Clogged up inlet tract around the stepper motor throttle plate from the overworked EGR after the emissions fix

@J.R.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, worth checking out for sure.

 

It idles, and starts perfectly and never stalls.

 

Could this still be the issue do you think?

 

Thanks

Only one way to find out, at 79K miles mine was completely clagged up & he difference in performance after cleaning was amazing, it was then only 108hp & down to what? probably 80hp I reckon, if yours is equally clagged it wont develop any more power and the gain when its cleared will be far more than mine was.

 

Mine was running perfectly and then it shook a bit on shut down, I was concerned that it was the DMF which was not so great and was later changed post remap but the shaking was caused by the throttle flap being obstructed by the clag and not being able to close fully, its used as an anti-shudder device on shut down.

 

Searching this forum or Google will bring up loads of photos of severely clagged up intakes mine included.

Thanks again, will inspect it tomorrow!

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Clogged up inlet tract around the stepper motor throttle plate from the overworked EGR after the emissions fix

 

Probably not. The emissions fix wasn't applied to the 2015 on EA288 Euro 6 engines.  These also have a different location for the EGR depending on which market.  

 

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/03/20140322-ea288.html

What driving mode are you in ?

If you are using eco then it can be sleepy but in sport there should be sufficient shove. It won't be vrs fast but certainly isn't lacking like you describe.

Cheers

I tend to just leave it in Normal mode.

 

Irrespective of what mode I have it in it just feels weak. Can't carry out confident overtakes to the point that I just don't bother trying now

9 minutes ago, AJK87 said:

I tend to just leave it in Normal mode.

 

Irrespective of what mode I have it in it just feels weak. Can't carry out confident overtakes to the point that I just don't bother trying now

 

If you really want to find out, get a local tuner to run it on a dyno to see what it's making at the wheels.  If it's within spec and you want more, have them remap it.

 

I have the same engine in my Yeti.  It wasn't exactly a ball of fire as standard but remapped to c. 185 bhp it'll live with our 190 TDI Karoq on the road.  

 

The issue isn't peak horsepower.  Rather, it's the area under the torque curve that's important. 

Edited 30 April, 20224 yr by Schtum

How low are the revs when you refer to low down torque ? For overtaking in my 2016 150scout I'd drop a gear so I'm around 2000revs (so the turbo is awake) and in sport mode it does fine. To be honest, with the haldex it feels very sure-footed too.

Maybe try sport mode and give it a few more revs ???

 

13 hours ago, Schtum said:

 

Probably not. The emissions fix wasn't applied to the 2015 on EA288 Euro 6 engines.  These also have a different location for the EGR depending on which market.  

 

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/03/20140322-ea288.html

Thankyou, I wasn't aware that in 2015 they started fitting EU6 engines, my 2015 is EU5, I think that I should be pleased about that, less complication etc but mine is a real crock of shoîte anyway.

On 30/04/2022 at 23:24, 3rdoctavia said:

How low are the revs when you refer to low down torque ? For overtaking in my 2016 150scout I'd drop a gear so I'm around 2000revs (so the turbo is awake) and in sport mode it does fine. To be honest, with the haldex it feels very sure-footed too.

Maybe try sport mode and give it a few more revs ???

 

This was a long time ago now but I'm reviving this thread as I still feel I have an uresolved issue.

 

As I couldn't find anything wrong I had the car remapped by superchips, should now be approx 185 bhp & 400NM torque.

 

It's a bit less tedious now but I still don't seem to have low down torque. Rev it in 1st 2nd and 3rd and it will move but without the sensation of any real torque and with only very docile turbo boost.

 

At 2000 - 2500 rpm the usual torque I've had in every other diesel car I've owned just isn't there. It feels strangled. It should pull like a train following the remap. There's absolutely no way a VRS could be so weak and that is what power it should be running now, give or take.

 

I managed to convince myself the only plausible explanation was engine timing a tooth out. Checked the timing today and it's fine.

 

No lights on, no codes logged. 

I'm at a loss.

 

Any one have any ideas or similar experiences?

 

Thanks

 

 

The torque delivery in these more recent diesels is far more like a petrol engine than they used to be in that the power delivery is stronger in the middle of the rev range and not as much in the lower range now.

 

The difference is quite noticeable going between an older and newer diesel engined cars like a Mk1 Fabia vRS and my 64 plate Mk3 Octavia.

Did you ever get it on a dyno as suggested by @Schtum?

Not yet no, that is potentially where I'll have to go next with it, although it won't necessarily help locate the cause if it does prove it is down on power

2 hours ago, HeavyMetalRich said:

The torque delivery in these more recent diesels is far more like a petrol engine than they used to be in that the power delivery is stronger in the middle of the rev range and not as much in the lower range now.

 

The difference is quite noticeable going between an older and newer diesel engined cars like a Mk1 Fabia vRS and my 64 plate Mk3 Octavia.

That's interesting, and is pretty much what the local VAG dealer said. I'm still not convinced mine is right though. People consider these Scouts to be a good towing vehicle, in 150 or 185 bhp variants. Before the remap it would have felt like a dangerous prospect attempting to tow a caravan in mine. Even after the remap I wouldn't feel very happy towing with it. Any of my old diesels I'd have had confidence towing with, for context, a 2010 Focus 2.0, 2005 CRV 2.2, and even an old Peugout  1.9 td.

 

I guess I'll have to go down the dyno avenue to prove or disprove. Don't think there is any 4wd dyno places near me in South Cumbria so might be a day trip away

Not the same engine spec so perhaps not relevant but mine when it was the standard 108hp spec was exactly as you describe and even when not towing once above say 40mph in 5th or 6th gear.

 

The remap to an alleged 184hp has transformed it into the vehicle yours should have been from the start, I'm not convinced of the power figure, I reckon its a 170hp map but the torque is superb and having the smaller turbo comes in at lower revs, basically very powerfull from 1500 right through to 5K rpm although you never need to use those sort of revs unless you have made a mistake of judgement when overtaking in which case its comforting to know that you will not need to change up.

23 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Not the same engine spec so perhaps not relevant but mine when it was the standard 108hp spec was exactly as you describe and even when not towing once above say 40mph in 5th or 6th gear.

 

The remap to an alleged 184hp has transformed it into the vehicle yours should have been from the start, I'm not convinced of the power figure, I reckon its a 170hp map but the torque is superb and having the smaller turbo comes in at lower revs, basically very powerfull from 1500 right through to 5K rpm although you never need to use those sort of revs unless you have made a mistake of judgement when overtaking in which case its comforting to know that you will not need to change up.

That further confirms to me that mine isn't right.

 

On a wet greasy road, once off the clutch if i put the accelarator to the floor i can't even get the front wheels to lose traction in 1st gear and cause an ESC intervention. 

That's not because the 4wd is enabling lots of power to be put down, it's just because the power is so poor.

 

I love the car from a practical point of view but it's so flat compared to any diesel I've ever driven around the 2.0l displacement mark

 

It feels like a 1.6 td unit is under the bonnet even after this supposed 185bhp remap

 

 

What are you wanting to be doing that in 1st for?  Use your gears get out of 1st maybe.

 

So the tyres and surface interface is not very good.  Is your Haldex actually functioning properly? 

Is your car when hitched tail down and front going light just as a FWD Cold / warm or hot hatch might be doing.  60 ps Citigo /  Fabias can spin front wheels.

 

Surely with your front wheel spin it a Traction Control (TC) or Anti Slip Regulation (ASR) intervention rather than ESC / Electronic Stability Control!  But then VW love these letters and terms and use them at different times / models / generations.

Edited 2 October, 20232 yr by toot

3 hours ago, AJK87 said:

Not yet no, that is potentially where I'll have to go next with it, although it won't necessarily help locate the cause if it does prove it is down on power

I'd have wanted before and after performance figures.

Mine will never brake traction unless a really greasy or icy surface because the 4WD engages before it could happen, I have never ever had an ESC intervention, if I did I would deduce that the Haldex was not functioning.

 

1 hour ago, AJK87 said:

On a wet greasy road, once off the clutch if i put the accelarator to the floor i can't even get the front wheels to lose traction in 1st gear and cause an ESC intervention. 

That's not because the 4wd is enabling lots of power to be put down, it's just because the power is so poor.

 

I think that it is actually the former, if you remove the fuse to disable the Haldex and it still will no spin the front wheels or trigger one of the 3 letter acronyms then you are seriously lacking power, you already know that you are but that would prove it, I dont think what you are doing at present is a valid test on a 4WD vehicle.

 

There is also an electronic "torque limitation" figure programmed in the ECU, it can be viewed in VCDS, it is there to protect the transmission, as the torque is multiplied in the lower gears I doubt that any of these vehicles except perhaps mine when it had 108hp give the full beans in 1st gear.

38 minutes ago, toot said:

What are you wanting to be doing that in 1st for?  Use your gears get out of 1st maybe.

 

So the tyres and surface interface is not very good.  Is your Haldex actually functioning properly? 

Is your car when hitched tail down and front going light just as a FWD Cold / warm or hot hatch might be doing.  60 ps Citigo /  Fabias can spin front wheels.

 

Surely with your front wheel spin it a Traction Control (TC) or Anti Slip Regulation (ASR) intervention rather than ESC / Electronic Stability Control!  But then VW love these letters and terms and use them at different times / models / generations.

I think you've misread my message.

 

You're correct about ASR intervention rather than ESC though.

 

I said i cannot get my front wheels to lose any traction at all on a wet greasy road even foot to the floor in 1st gear.

I realise the Haldex system will kick the rears in when the fronts lose traction, thus limiting the need for an ASR intervention but the power is so poor the front wheels don't even get near to losing traction.

 

As you say very low powered cars will spin the front wheels in the wet, but not my apparantly 185ps 400nm Octavia

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Mine will never brake traction unless a really greasy or icy surface because the 4WD engages before it could happen, I have never ever had an ESC intervention, if I did I would deduce that the Haldex was not functioning.

 

 

I think that it is actually the former, if you remove the fuse to disable the Haldex and it still will no spin the front wheels or trigger one of the 3 letter acronyms then you are seriously lacking power, you already know that you are but that would prove it, I dont think what you are doing at present is a valid test on a 4WD vehicle.

 

There is also an electronic "torque limitation" figure programmed in the ECU, it can be viewed in VCDS, it is there to protect the transmission, as the torque is multiplied in the lower gears I doubt that any of these vehicles except perhaps mine when it had 108hp give the full beans in 1st gear.

Ok that's a good shout thanks, and what you say about the 4wd not allowing the fronts to lose traction makes perfect sense.

 

It's just as the driver I can tell the power is so poor the fronts wouldn't be losing traction even without the rear wheels potentially kicking in.

 

Removing the Haldex fuse is a good idea though.

 

Cheers

Sorry i did misread.

Are you sure your clutch is not slipping?

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Mine will never brake traction unless a really greasy or icy surface because the 4WD engages before it could happen, I have never ever had an ESC intervention, if I did I would deduce that the Haldex was not functioning.

 

 

I think that it is actually the former, if you remove the fuse to disable the Haldex and it still will no spin the front wheels or trigger one of the 3 letter acronyms then you are seriously lacking power, you already know that you are but that would prove it, I dont think what you are doing at present is a valid test on a 4WD vehicle.

 

There is also an electronic "torque limitation" figure programmed in the ECU, it can be viewed in VCDS, it is there to protect the transmission, as the torque is multiplied in the lower gears I doubt that any of these vehicles except perhaps mine when it had 108hp give the full beans in 1st gear.

 Well, that was a very useful exercise, and I was wrong.

 

With Haldex fuse removed (which also disables ASR/ESC) the car spins the front wheels up in 2nd gear on a damp road.

 

With the fuse back in but ASR switched off I can't get any loss of traction, which proves exactly what you said and that the 4wd is working excellently.

 

The car feels quicker in low gears with the fuse out, but just as flat in higher gears ar lower revs.

 

It's as though the power is there but not the torque. Once the 4wd maintains traction and means the engine is having to propell the full weight of the car it feels like you're pulling something very heavy along.

 

You'd think remapped to approx 185bhp with 400+NM torque it would pick up really well at lower revs in 4th/5th but it is feeble.

 

Guess a rolling road is all there is left to try