Rear brake discs - typical lifespan?

[Ooopnorth]

Today, my partner's Fabia started to have a regular 'thud', thud' sound coming from the rear brakes.  We called Skoda Assist (AA) who came out promptly and found the rear discs were badly corroded and the surfaces had patches where the lining was missing.   Clearly, new discs and pads will be required, and obviously the wear/deterioration was the source of the noise.

 

So, I checked the service history and the original rear brake discs and pads had been replaced at 38,000 miles (2019).  The replacements have therefore lasted only about 20,000 miles - nearly less than half the lifespan of the originals.  Driver and driving conditions/style  have been largely the same since the car was new (2016).  Also, over lockdowns, as per usual, the car was left parked at home on a level drive with the handbrake off and in gear. We've always done that with our cars.

 

Our Skodas (5 vehicles  over the years) have been serviced at the same independent Skoda specialist we've been using for the best part of 25 years - no issues.  I assume they've used genuine Skoda parts - that's what we've always stipulated.

 

Am I being unreasonable to expect the rear discs to last longer than 20,000 miles, with the same driver doing the same type of driving as during the initial near 40,000 miles of the vehicle's life?  Are genuine Skoda/VW replacement parts generally of less good quality than the out-of-the-factory parts?

 

Thanks in advance for any comments/thoughts

 

 

[Ooopnorth]

Please could you explain why this post has been moved from General Maintenance section to Skoda Fabia III section as it's a general question about  brake discs and pads and their lifespan which applies to all vehicles. It's not Fabia specific and I mentioned the model simply for interest. I could have just as easily not have mentioned the model and it would have been just as relevant.

 

Thank you.

.

Edited 1 May, 2022 by Ooopnorth

[Ootohere]

Sorry,

Probably because i pressed the report button and suggested it might be best here.

 

Your post might have sat long enough getting no replies.

 

The Fabia Mk3 brakes are not great as other models of Skoda are not but the bigger heavier cars are a bit different.

I just thought the members here with Mk3's would be best able to pass on their experiences.

 

There is not really a General Life of Discs or Pads front or rear because some people hardly use the brake pedal and others use it lots.

Some clean the cosmetic rust off discs when the start driving and others just drive, or have no cosmetic rust.

Applying the hand / parking brake a little to clean the discs / corrosion.

Location location location.

Winters, salted roads, living in the hills or near the sea or in towns or cities. 

Edited 1 May, 2022 by roottoot

[Ooopnorth]

32 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Sorry,

Probably because i pressed the report button and suggested it might be best here.

 

Your post might have sat long enough getting no replies.

 

The Fabia Mk3 brakes are not great as other models of Skoda are not but the bigger heavier cars are a bit different.

I just thought the members here with Mk3's would be best able to pass on their experiences.

 

There is not really a General Life of Discs or Pads front or rear because some people hardly use the brake pedal and others use it lots.

Some clean the cosmetic rust off discs when the start driving and others just drive, or have no cosmetic rust.

Applying the hand / parking brake a little to clean the discs / corrosion.

Location location location.

Winters, salted roads, living in the hills or near the sea or in towns or cities. 

Thank you for replying.  I understand that there will be some considerable variability in brake disc/pads durability across different drivers - as you say we all have different styles.  But, as I mentioned, this was the  same driver, driving the same routes since 2016.  One set of original rear brake discs and pads lasted for approx. 40,000 miles, while their replacements only lasted approx. 20,000 miles.  I'd always expect some variability in mileage duration, but 50% is too significant to be just down to general variability of quality.

 

I should have perhaps been more succinct in my question and just asked whether replacement parts (Skoda) are less durable than the original parts. Thinking about this, it seems unlikely to me.  Skoda/VAG wouldn't go to all the trouble of having various different production lines of different quality level, seems absurd (or would they!).  Alternatively, perhaps there has been a marked decrease in the components quality generally over the last few years- cost cutting?. 

 

More troubling for me, is the thought of whether the independent Skoda specialist I've been using for years -and trusted - and understood to be providing genuine Skoda parts, has actually  been providing non-genuine parts of inferior quality.

[Ootohere]

Actually the VW Group can and do source some right crap consumables, then some are fine.

So it is the luck of the draw,

 

Cheap to purchase discs and pads can sometimes be streets ahead of OEM parts and replacement parts that dealerships fit. 

 

Always worth looking at Car Supermarket vehicles or long term Airport Parking etc and seeing how some Manufacturers or Brands or models discs look after sitting awhile.

There are cars that sit with discs getting no surface rust and others red with it. 

[rum4mo]

I thought that I read that VW Group were supplying and fitting cheaper service parts, in some cases, to cars over a certain age - like a "5+ years old" cheaper option as they had worked out that owners of older cars did not necessarily want genuine service parts used, well at least I'm meaning consumables like discs, pads and shoes.

 

VX used to do that back in 1990s so I'd think many other marques were doing the same thing for the same reasons - mind you, in my case, I valued my beloved VX GSI 4X4 Cav and only bought bits from VX because I wanted genuine replacement parts, the steep fall in brake parts prices was what drove me to ask the question and I didn't like the answer I got, same for centre exhaust parts which only lasted a few years, naughty beggars not asking when I was ordering stuff from my dealer!

 

Many VAG Indies will use "good as OEM" to save customers money, and this seems to apply to suspension parts and other consumables, where they have found that doing that just might not work, they will stick with genuine VAG parts to save their name and their customer base.

 

I'm sure that I've spotted new products on shelves at my local VAG Indie and I trust them to have made a good choice, I've never ever, so far, bought and fitted VAG genuine brake discs and pads, and that covers VAG cars we as a family have owned from new and run for 10 > 13 years and 85K > 105K miles.  I've tended to use Pagid discs where possible and one of the mainland Europe based TMD Friction for pads, ie Textar and Pagid, my wife's 2015 VW Polo I seem to remember has Jurid branded front pads, still the originals, so maybe I'll replace with same when the time comes.

 

I've normally found that VW and SEAT front discs rust quite quickly as do VW rear discs, any of these cars that I've replaced the originals with Pagid tended to stay looking "good" for their entire (wear) life for the front, and most of their (wear) life on the rear. Now, if that equates to being better in braking performance when newish when compared with VW Group original fit, I can't say. My 2011 Audi S4, according to the original service records, as it was bought slightly used, got all its disc and pads replaced at around the 2 year mark due to slight vibration - and I've owned it from July 2013 and considerably under used it, and its front and rear discs are still in excellent condition - ie no surface irregularities, so it seems that at least the genuine VAG replacement parts were okay on that one. I can't say where I'll get new parts from for that car, but I'd think that Audi's pricing would scare me off!

[rum4mo]

Actually maybe the short answer is that for small light cars, like Fabia, Polo, Ibiza, the rear disc brakes do not get enough passed their way and so normally end their service life due to corrosion on the discs and not by reaching their wear limit, it sounds like your wife's car was fitted with exceptional "good" discs at the factory, by chance, and then fitted with normal discs next time.

Edited 2 May, 2022 by rum4mo

[john123]

going 12 years and 50000miles still factory brakes on  front and rear 

Edited 2 May, 2022 by john123

[nta16]

ETA: I forgot to put, the rear brakes were shown as 50% remaining at last year's service and MoT (front 10% remaining).

 

I have not been impressed with the VW/Skoda parts quality, on my wife's 2015 (2016 MY) Fabia Mk3 I changed the front discs and pads last year (at 6 years 41k-miles) but as the car was bought at 10k-miles with an uncertain history (Dealer's car) I can't account for what happened before my wife's ownership.

 

I changed the front discs and pads to Pagid and these seemed better than the previous set, presumably factory but I didn't check, but they were obviously newer and less worn.

 

At the last MoT both front dampers had to be changed, the brakes were only advisory, this didn't impress me either but again I can't account for the first 10k-miles of their life and despite our local MP's claims and keeping in with his party and whoever the leader and PM is at the time our county has many potholes and rough road surfaces.

 

My wife's previous car was a Vauxhall and I can remember the Dealership offering alternative parts to those that VX offered and they said they were just as good but lower priced but we stuck with VX which in hindsight was probably wasted extra expenditure.

 

Edited 2 May, 2022 by nta16

[AGFalco]

Brake life can be increased if they are maintained / serviced regularly. 

 

Present Fabia III is from 2016 with 63K miles.

Both front and rear pads are about 50% worn with no rust on the face of the disks.

Fabia III brake pads are prone to sticking in the calipers as they don't slide in/on stainless steel sliders.

They can get stuck where the pad rubs / rusts against the caliper.

This is my rear disk / pad with the photo taken today.

 

 

Present Panda is from 2009 with 133K miles.

This has had a set of front pads at 45k, disks and pads at 90K.

Rear shoes are still original but rear wheel cylinders have been changed.

After market parts have lasted as long as original parts for me.

 

Past Peugeot 307 from 2003 with 133K miles when sold.

Two sets of front pads and one pair of front disks.

Rear was on original disks but had one set of rear pads at 90K.

 

All these cars get a regular / annual complete brake strip / clean / refit every autumn.

This is what you want to do to make brakes last.

It was worth doing even when the Fabia III was 5 months old.

It also helps with better fuel economy as rusty / unclean brakes tend to create drag.

 

A test you can easily do is to jack up a rear wheel, release the handbrake and then spin the wheel by hand.

If you notice any noise / friction from the brakes then they need maintenance.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

 

[AnnoyingPentium]

My 2006 Fabia was on original discs (from what I could tell) at 53k. That's when I changed them though. Put Eicher on and am due having to change them again!

[nta16]

AG Falco can't dispute what you do just wondering do you cars sleep in a garage or outside, and what is a brake strip on discs?

 

 

Edited 2 May, 2022 by nta16

[Titanium_Man]

1 hour ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

My 2006 Fabia was on original discs (from what I could tell) at 53k. That's when I changed them though. Put Eicher on and am due having to change them again!

Why so??

[nta16]

2 hours ago, AGFalco said:

This is my rear disk / pad with the photo taken today.

Wots the rear like.  🙂

[AnnoyingPentium]

3 minutes ago, jars said:

Why so??

 

There's not much left. Wasn't quite an advisory for the MOT but could be next year, at least from visual inspection.

[AGFalco]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

just wondering do you cars sleep in a garage or outside

Peugeot was inside garage from 2003 to 2005 but outside for the next 11 years.

Panda had been inside an old damp garage, but is now outside.

Fabia III was outside for first 3.5 years but now is inside a garage.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

what is a brake strip on discs?

I remove the calipers, rewind the piston, remove the pads and clean all touching parts between the pads and calipers.

I remove any rust from the disk outer circumference as if left this will spread round and down the friction surfaces.

This is especially relevant on the rear brakes. I then reassemble everything using new lubricant.

After refitting the wheels and pumping the brake pedal, I spin the wheels to check for no noise / friction coming from the brakes.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

 

[rum4mo]

When buying some parts from ECP, I added a set of stainless steel shims to try to fit to my wife's August 2015 VW Polo rear brakes, we were lucky as at that point in manufacture, at least VW in South Africa, were still fitting TRW brakes, so as much earlier cars, in my case a 2002 VW Polo, had these stainless steel pieces fitted to the rear brakes, I'm willing to take a gamble in trying to fit them when I clean the brakes up this year.

 

As said, nothing beats cleaning up brakes annually, I'm lazy so only start cleaning after 2 years, then again at 4 years, then every year after that. Anyone waiting until their brakes start dragging has missed a trick I'd think. Main dealer servicing normally does not include cleaning up the brakes, that task is an extra money item.

[Ooopnorth]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to comment/advise and/or share opinions and experiences. I do appreciate Briskoda for it's wide community of collective perspectives. Really helpful and often thought provoking.

[inspectorman]

I have now changed four sets of rear discs on four Skodas before the first MoT over the last ten years. One one I heard chunks of the disc surface delaminating and hitting the wheel as I drove. Truly awful quality and quickly replaced by me with components from a known brand. Anyone who fits these as OEM parts needs their head examined.

 

The truth is probably that Skoda/VAG use a range of suppliers, all driven down to the lowest possible price - so you might be lucky. The picture shows a Rapid rear disc at 15K miles / 2.5 years. Didn't bother Skoda with a warranty claim since I knew I would be fobbed off. £35 and an hours work sorted it. Now - 10K miles and a year later - not a sign of anything happening to the rear discs.

[rum4mo]

So far, I've been lucky in that I've only ever seen pictures of brake discs ending up like that in other threads in this forum!

 

A production issue maybe.

[Ootohere]

@rum4mo  You missed the threads and pictures then, i have read them.EDIT, sorry I read that wrong. My bad.  

 

Try Google or Google images.

 

Briskoda brake disc delaminate

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/446611-rear-brake-discs-new-kind-of-problem

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/500870-brake-discs

 

 

Edited 4 May, 2022 by roottoot

[rum4mo]

2 minutes ago, roottoot said:

@rum4mo  You missed the threads and pictures then, i have read them.

Maybe my wording was wrong, but I was meaning that that had not happened to me (yet), but I have read about it happening to others in this forum.

[Ootohere]

Sorry I read your post wrongly.  

[nta16]

1 hour ago, inspectorman said:

I have now changed four sets of rear discs on four Skodas before the first MoT over the last ten years. One one I heard chunks of the disc surface delaminating and hitting the wheel as I drove.

Yes truly dreadful, another example of the race to the bottom.

 

[Ooopnorth]

50 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Yes truly dreadful, another example of the race to the bottom.

 

Yes, it is disappointing. Last year we had to replace the bushes on one of the suspension wishbones on the Fabia, and the indie Skoda Specialist I've been using for a couple of decades now, said they had to do quite a few on various VAG vehicles recently, and he also pondered on the quality issues with Skoda VAG parts. 

 

It was actually one of the reasons (albeit not the main one) why I decided against a Kodiaq when replacing the lovely Yeti (which had also gone through a noticeable number of  pads and discs compared to my earlier Skodas) for a Subaru.  We're also thinking its time to replace the Fabia and normally would have looked at the newer model or the Kamiq, but the Toyota Yaris Cross is now a possible contender.  Having said that, I'll not be surprised if other manufacturers have similar quality of parts issues!