Hybrid versus petrol and diesel: a comparison of real-life fuel consumption

[cheezemonkhai]

That’s fine, but an Enyaq, EV6, ID4, ID3, and many EV would all do the 120 miles there and back without needing a charge (Nearly all EV could do it with a top up at the other end).

 

Comparing a cars mpg to an SUV mpg isn’t reflecting that gain from hybrid, but far more from the aero/mass side of it.

You moving from an SUV to a car was a great move for reducing fuel costs and your carbon emissions (not Inc making the car)

 

I understand your reasoning, I’m just saying that from an environmental point of view a hybrid makes almost zero sense.
Poor MPG vs the same car without the battery, higher costs, the disadvantages of ice (fuel, servicing, road tax) and only very limited advantages of battery, but with the weight penalty.

An iV is approx £32k a number of 200+ mile EV are close to that and plenty under £40k.

Comparison of octavia SEL in 1.5 petrol and IV trim (petrol on left IV on right)

 

You can see a big price jump of approx £7k and approx 300kg weight gain.

 

£7k pays for about 35000miles of fuel even at £2/litre. The WLTP figures for the hybrid are of course fiction in the real world.

 

 

 

 

[MiniNinjaRob]

On 29/06/2022 at 13:31, cheezemonkhai said:

 

However that's terrible compared to a diesel, which for a long run on diesel will get 65MPG+ without doing much more than keeping it at or below 70 and looking ahead.  I do agree that batteries are useful, but then if long journeys are rare, why not look at a short/long range EV for 99% of the journeys and renting an ICE vehicle for longer distance.

 

The whole concept comes back to the same problem you currently have with all cars, which is too much weight.

When on ICE you're carrying around an unused battery, if you're topping the battery up MPG tanks and if you're on battery you're carrying around a load of unused ICE and gearbox/transmission etc. The end story is poor MPG or poor range for a given amount of fuel/charge.

 

If you look at it all, then you can find that people moving from great big heavy SUV with the aero/drag profiles approaching that of a brick to a normal car like an octy estate would make more difference than driving a hybrid SUV. Similarly people driving large cars who never need them would be better in a polo estate etc.

 

Cars have got bigger and heavier and people have not looked at weight saving. It's huge alloys, big heavy brake calipers rather than lighter weight multi-piston designs, steel everywhere when plastic panels were used in the 80's and 90s (Citroen, Renault) and aluminium. 

The key issue should be weight and drag reduction to create more efficient cars, not greenwashing, by strapping a battery plus a glorified washing machine motor in an SUV then calling it self-charging hybrid technology (ICE powered you mean?).

 

On an electric thread, it was suggested a mass based system of road tax would be a good replacement for the lost fuel duty, and I can see it would apply and help here too.  I also posted this, which is food for thought...

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/354505/scrap-your-hybrid-diesel-campaign-might-just-happen

 

  

 

I could be wrong, but I think the BIK advantage for hybrids is gone (or about to be).

At which point a hybrid doesn't make sense as a company car driver any more vs an all electric ZEV.

 

 

Yes you just have been misinformed as the low BIK is still there till at least 2025. I have mine for 4 years so will be swapping for a new car in 2026. 

 

I know the extra initial cost of the iV over the standard petrol is a lot of money but overall to me it’s cheaper per month. If I didn’t have a company car I would not be getting a hybrid. 
 

I really wanted to get a full EV but they would all have been a lot more expensive than the iV per month as the contribution I have to pay would be more. A base model Enyaq would have been around £45 a month more and would not have worked for holidays and  we can’t stand SUVs anyway as they just don’t work for us at all. I could have had a Q4 Etronic but that would have been even more but they have been popular with colleagues. 
 

I have been looking at charging options in the sorts of places where we go on holiday and they are very sparse at best. I was in NW wales last year and met a guy who was desperate to get a charge on his EV but the only charger anywhere near where he was staying was broken (in a NT car park) and he was getting quite panicked about it. The infrastructure is just not quite there for us to get an EV yet. On the flip side a colleague only ever goes abroad on holiday so all he has to do is park at the airport so never needs to do long journeys. 

Edited 30 June, 2022 by MiniNinjaRob

[Felix2021]

@cheezemonkhai why are you comparing iV to 1.5? Better comparison would be 2.0 TSI (similar power output and performance), and suddenly price difference becomes lower, and consumption difference becomes higher.

PHEV is actually good solution for SOME use cases, like described already. For me it would also be good, but i decided to go with petrol 1.5.

Yes, there are some compromises in case of PHEV. But in case of EV or ICE you also have compromises, just different ones.

Good that we have a choice, and everyone can choose what suits them best. If for someone PHEV seems to be a good choice, i don't see the point to try to talk them out of it. For you PHEV is combination of worst thigs about EV and ICE, but for others it might be combination of their best sides.

Bad thing is, that soon we will have no choice except for EV's 😞

 

[cheezemonkhai]

But it is nothing like a 2.0 for most of the time. No electrical power and it’s a 1.4 pulling an extra 300kg, which is most of the time. Even with electric it is no 2.0 as it’s about 20% heavier. My point it they are not green.

 

If the OP is happy with the car so be it and I am genuinely pleased they are.

A phev however is not a solution that is good for the environment. 

[Felix2021]

5 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

But it is nothing like a 2.0 for most of the time.

Why not?

6 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

No electrical power and it’s a 1.4 pulling an extra 300kg, which is most of the time.

Correct, in a way (read below)...

6 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Even with electric it is no 2.0 as it’s about 20% heavier.

Look at this video:

Acceleration (at least 0-100km/h) is the same as in case of 2.0.

7 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

My point it they are not green.

Again - why not?

 

Basically you assume people will not be charging them, but i don't know why.

Sure, if it would be bought for a fleet, than most probably that will be the case.

But i assume "regular Smith" buys this kind of car knowingly, with assumption it will be charged regularly, so most of the city driving will be done in EV mode, but hybrid mode will allow for long journeys with low/reasonable consumption.

Was considering iV for myself, as i could charge it for free at work, so daily commute would be free in EV mode. Thing is, that recently i'm mostly working from home, where i cannot charge it (at least not yet), so that's the reason i didn't get it.

But OP, as well as probably many other iV buyers are using it as it's supposed to be used. This means it is "green" (to a point), and it is like 2.0.

[cheezemonkhai]

Up front, hybrid drivers using the limited public chargers is a pet peeve as they block cars that need a charge to get home. I’m also sick of certain brands greenwashing hybrids as the answer to everything.

 

Fleet wise most people I knew never charged them, and even those that did ran out of juice in 15 miles on full electric mode.

 

To do 60 miles in a PHEV, there is no way to do that in a single stint on pure electric. I don’t think I’m missing something here but I may be.

 

BIK wise, our company said they lost the tax relief on it and that new cars were no longer permitted. Personal BIK lower until 2025 is good to have. Is it still at 2%?

[SteveTheElder]

43 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

they are not green.

 

30 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

Again - why not?

 

 

How green (or 'un-green') is manufacturing a PHEV vs. pure ICE?

How green is manufacturing a battery + electricity vs. manufacturing fuel tank + petrol over xxx miles?

etc.

etc.

 

Call me a cynic but I don't believe anyone has yet done a proper comparative measure, all I have found come from sources with a vested interest one way or another.

 

And by Green, I mean in terms of overall environmental impact; an EV (or PHEV in EV mode) will undoubtedly be better for air quality, especially in busy/congested towns and cities but that is only part of the story.

[Felix2021]

19 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Up front, hybrid drivers using the limited public chargers is a pet peeve as they block cars that need a charge to get home.

So what are you saying? The PHEV drivers should be allowed to charge only at home/work? Why? Because they can get home without charging? But what about being "green" than?

21 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Fleet wise most people I knew never charged them, and even those that did ran out of juice in 15 miles on full electric mode.

Fully agreed. Said it myself earlier, maybe in a bit different words

22 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

To do 60 miles in a PHEV, there is no way to do that in a single stint on pure electric. I don’t think I’m missing something here but I may be.

Never said it is possible. 50km is more realistic. And for example that would be enough for me for daily commute.

22 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

BIK wise, our company said they lost the tax relief on it and that new cars were no longer permitted. Personal BIK lower until 2025 is good to have. Is it still at 2%?

I'm from Poland, so i don't really care about BIK. There's no advantage of having any kind of hybrid in Poland, except for fuel consumption.

5 minutes ago, sneal said:

How green (or 'un-green') is manufacturing a PHEV vs. pure ICE?

Would say it's somewhere between EV and ICE, so less green than ICE, but more green than EV. But might be wrong

6 minutes ago, sneal said:

How green is manufacturing a battery + electricity vs. manufacturing fuel tank + petrol over xxx miles?

I guess we all know the answer

6 minutes ago, sneal said:

Call me a cynic but I don't believe anyone has yet done a proper comparative measure, all I have found come from sources with a vested interest one way or another.

No, you're not a cynic. You're fully right. There was no, and will not be objective comparative measure. All depends on who is paying for the report...

7 minutes ago, sneal said:

And by Green, I mean in terms of overall environmental impact; an EV (or PHEV in EV mode) will undoubtedly be better for air quality, especially in busy/congested towns and cities but that is only part of the story.

True.

And to be honest i don't think we will ever find any answer that would take all the aspects in to account.

Emissions related to manufacturing of the car are one thing. Then there's question where we are getting electricity from? In Poland mostly from coal still, in Norway for example mostly from renewable sources. Next question is how the car is used? Long or short distances? Is PHEV charged or not? Etc.

And last question - is it really CO2 emissions that is causing global warming? Maybe we are focusing on something meaningless?

 

I'm anyway still saying PHEV is really a good idea, granted it's used as it should be.

[SteveTheElder]

5 minutes ago, Felix2021 said:

I'm anyway still saying PHEV is really a good idea, granted it's used as it should be.

 

100% agree. It's all down to how the vehicle is used (and charged as appropriate). For me, a PHEV would result in higher exhaust emissions than the TSI.

[cheezemonkhai]

3 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

So what are you saying? The PHEV drivers should be allowed to charge only at home/work? Why? Because they can get home without charging? But what about being "green" than?

 

That is exactly what I am saying yes.

keep them on chargers that are 7kW or less because they can’t charge faster than that. My peeve is when they park up and leave a car all day when it’ll be full in an hour. If a hybrid uses a rapid charger as it has a ccs port, then there should be a massive surcharge and another charger after a certain time.

 

The resources are not there to move to BEV for charging, so using a public fast/rapid charger to gain some cheap miles is not acceptable in my book.

when every parking bay has 3.6/7kW and rapid chargers are a couple per floor then it’s different.

 

FWIW I drive a diesel, have an EV on order and am put off when all the chargers are taken all day by hybrids. I’m considering cancelling and buying a new diesel. If that goes for lots of people you will never replace ice.

 

Also the report I linked to in the auto express on emissions by an independent group makes for interesting reading.

Edited 30 June, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[LSport]

I found this was an interesting view on the idea of 'Green':

 

[Ootohere]

Walk barefoot or cycle on a balance bike made of wood from a sustainable source of maybe sail or paddle where ever you want to go.    He walked and sailed obviously to do that recording.  

[cheezemonkhai]

There is nothing wrong with electric as a means of propulsion, but yes current battery technologies are questionable in terms of how they are produced and recycled. The problems with battery production etc still apply to hybrids as do the problems with the source of electric generation. Did they take in the emissions of servicing and replacement parts on ICE engines?

 

I don't think batteries are great, it's what we have and personally prefer to see hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, but that requires green hydrogen generation and distribution to be put in place, which sadly are not there in this country.

 

As for TED talks, I'm not one for them.

They don't appear to require rigerous evidence (not that there is for all of this subject) nor do they appear to require a declaration of vested interests. Many presenters on many subjects seem to have a vested interest, so using a TED talk as fact isn't something I would do.

 

The  chap giving the talk you linked to works for this company, who don't have a lot of detail around what they actually do, but are texas based and consult for many industries. As such I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

 

https://www.swri.org/who-we-are/history#slideshow-2

 

According to the guys profile they consult for the auto industry (OK so who paid for the research which was used as the basis of data for the talk?)

 

https://tedxsanantonio.com/2019-fall-speakers/graham-conway/

 

What's funny to me is the inconsistancies. On one graph electric is lower emissions when you exclude electric CO2, but much higher when you include generation CO2, however hybrid is lower when you add in the same electric (Which is not consistent if electric is bad). The hybrid requires more CO2 to create (not shown on the latter graph) and yet the generation is so bad that the EV is eeeevil, but not the hybrid, where electric improves things.

 

This is also based on burning coal, gas and oil to generate electric (which just doesn't happen elsewhere to the same extent). If you look at his profile he states that 64% of the fuel comes from fossil fuel in the US. So where are the data souces and what percentages would be replaced if for example you looked at other countries that are not hitched to coal/oil for electric.

 

I mean if you look at this data from the UK from 2016 it was only around 50% then, and most of that was gas, which is far cleaner than coal and oil.

 

https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/our-work/generation/electricity-generation.html

 

The UK has improved it's mix since 2016 then and even a drop from 64-54% would drastically change the graphs.

 

https://www.edie.net/renewable-generation-overtakes-fossil-fuels-in-uk-electricity-for-first-time/

 

So now we're at around 40% and dropping, which again changes the graphs.

But what about people who use home solar and the chargers with solar on the roof? Again that's going to change the mix.

 

Just looking at the talk and the profiles, which don't match. For example from the profile....

 

Quote

Even more importantly, there are significant CO2 emissions created during the manufacture of the battery pack, meaning that in order to offset the carbon created during the production process, a BEV must drive 40,000 – 100,000 miles before being environmentally comparable to a gasoline powered vehicle

 

But the graph during that talk shows something else in terms of the miles needed to break even, pretty much double and then some. So which is wrong?

 

I do agree emissions of manufacturing is a big deal, but at least for EV production it's come down a lot very quickly as people are using solar to power plants.

That of course can apply to any manufacturing, but I know EV makers are doing this. 

 

Again power generation mix is a big deal too, but using the US, where the supreme court just ruled the EPA can't make states reduce emissions as it would affect the states and the power, coal and oil companies in those states shows it's a bad example.

As renewables and other low CO2 generation goes up and where people generate their own electric, it's going to be much better.

 

In terms of ICE vehicles, did they include the embedded costs of surveying and locating oil, simulation of the wells, extraction, refining, transport of the fuel or just the CO2 from burning it?

They don't actually say, which is where my issue comes. If you're going to make points at a public talk, provide data so it can be peer reviewed.

Edited 1 July, 2022 by cheezemonkhai
few typos

[Ootohere]

'this country' is England where the government are not doing much on green hydrogen other than talking.   There is a different thing going on in Scotland where there is so much renewables generation of electric going to waste so hydrogen is part of the solution for lowering emissions with Aberdeen leading the way on roads and at the harbour.  Same on the Northern Isles where producing electricity is easy. 

[cheezemonkhai]

15 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

 

Look at this video:

Acceleration (at least 0-100km/h) is the same as in case of 2.0.

 

Just to answer the above as to why I chose the 1.5TSI...

 

With the battery charged yes it might be quick  It's using both in the video.
0-100 in 6.5 with batteries is great, but it's not available unless you're using both power sources, which isn't there most of the time.

 

From the skoda data I posted above.

1.5TSI max speed = 139 mph and acceleration if 8.4s

IV max speed = 137 mph and acceleration is 7.8s

 

That's pretty comparible.

 

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

5 minutes ago, roottoot said:

'this country' is England where the government are not doing much on green hydrogen other than talking.   There is a different thing going on in Scotland where there is so much renewables generation of electric going to waste so hydrogen is part of the solution for lowering emissions with Aberdeen leading the way on roads and at the harbour.  Same on the Northern Isles where producing electricity is easy. 

 

You are indeed correct, especially on the islands. 

The vehicle fueling infrastructure is pretty weak however, as even if you can fill the truck and deliver the goods, getting back again is the problem because there isn't enough infrastructure elsewhere.

 

The same chicken and egg problem. If the governments came up with a plan for hydrogen at lorry stops on the motorways, then suddently fuel cell trucks would be much more viable. It's probably make a bigger dent in emissions too, just like fitting similar to the diesel electric trains they just purchased so they don't have to electrify the rail lines all the way.

Edited 1 July, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

The government or the prime minister have a strategy.  It revolves around JCB and the son of JCB,s owner who has the hydrogen thing sawn up.  Then there is Rolls Royce and small nuclear that Tory Seniors and Peers have financial interests in.  The Green is coming, or with Hydrogen in England Blue.  That is Blue Hydrogen .  As with renewables which is DRAX burning wood pellets imported from the USA on ships running on Marine Diesel. 

[cheezemonkhai]

Plan.. doubt many in gov would know what one was if it hit them

[Ootohere]

Jo Bamford £1bn hydrogen investment fund is what you need to look at.     jRM, IDS and others know what side to butter their toast.  And Boris has his bread and hand patted butter delivered by Mrs Banfords delivery service.      For someone investing in EV Car subscriptions try Lord David Brownlow.    Havisham Group.  (ELMO)  Just coincidence but Bamford and Brownlow will also come up if looking at who lent money to decorate a flat in Downing St. Or were asked to. 

Edited 1 July, 2022 by roottoot

[Felix2021]

10 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

That is exactly what I am saying yes.

For me this is strange, because one time you say "hybrids are bad, because people are not charging them", and another time you say "hybrids are bad, because people ARE charging them and occupying chargers meant for EV's".

Just pointing out, as for me this is a little flaw in your way of thinking.

49 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

On one graph electric is lower emissions when you exclude electric CO2, but much higher when you include generation CO2,

Again we are going back to use case. Many people i know in Poland that own hybrids (and EV for that matter), charge their cars at home, where they have photovoltaic installations. So in this case they are not generating CO2 when charging. They are rarely charging using public chargers.

BUT in Poland EV's and hybrids are very expensive compared to average income, so those are usually owned by rather "wealthy" people. It will change in time, when there will be more PHEV's and EV's available on used car market.

31 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Just to answer the above as to why I chose the 1.5TSI...

 

With the battery charged yes it might be quick  It's using both in the video.
0-100 in 6.5 with batteries is great, but it's not available unless you're using both power sources, which isn't there most of the time.

I chose 1.5 exactly for the same reason, as told already in this thread.

Again - PHEV CAN be great in some use cases (if charged). I cannot charge PHEV at home at the moment, only at work. But since working from home most of the time, i wouldn't benefit from that, hence i went with 1.5.

It was well thought-through choice in my case.

But if i could charge at home, i would go with PHEV.

Hope you do understand now my point of view

I never said PHEV's are always great. I said they CAN be great for SOME people, that use them as they are supposed to be used.

Everyone should carefully choose what is best for them. For some it will be EV, for others PHEV or petrol or diesel. Depends on the use case. And fortunately we have a choice.

[Ootohere]

In the UK the government knew many PHEV,s were not being charged because the media told them but business users were being given nice tax payer funded breaks.  Hence the change that was introduced.   The BIK nonsense has to stop.  The EV grants had to as well. 

[cheezemonkhai]

1 hour ago, Felix2021 said:

For me this is strange, because one time you say "hybrids are bad, because people are not charging them", and another time you say "hybrids are bad, because people ARE charging them and occupying chargers meant for EV's".

Just pointing out, as for me this is a little flaw in your way of thinking.

 

Hybrids are bad, because they tow around a lot of weight when for many journeys they are not taking advantage of the weight.

300kg extra on batteries that affects range from power, on ICE it affects range/MPG on both it affects performance.

 

Charging wise, they are bad when they are sat at a charger bay for hours, idle.

A 15 minute charge, or plugging them in when every parking bay has a 10-32Amp charge point is a different matter.

 

Right now they are harming EV adoption, because the infrastructure isn't there and the stuff that is around is very often blocked off by them.

The second point is more related to the fact that they shouldn't be sat idle or in charging bays for hours and hours, which they often are here.

 

1 hour ago, Felix2021 said:

Again we are going back to use case. Many people i know in Poland that own hybrids (and EV for that matter), charge their cars at home, where they have photovoltaic installations. So in this case they are not generating CO2 when charging. They are rarely charging using public chargers.

That is a bonus and the plan here, but not being able to get home, because you can't charge your EV because a hybrid has blocked the charger bay (Even though they were full in less than an hour). Again it's really down to poor infrastructure for electrification.

 

1 hour ago, Felix2021 said:

BUT in Poland EV's and hybrids are very expensive compared to average income, so those are usually owned by rather "wealthy" people. It will change in time, when there will be more PHEV's and EV's available on used car market.

I chose 1.5 exactly for the same reason, as told already in this thread.

I think the price of batteries may change the course of electrification, but current hybrids are just ICE cars with a load of weight and parts to get a little distance on electric, which as mentioned elsewhere isn't always green.

 

I can respect a 1.5 choice, I can respect somebody going EV, the hybrid route makes no sense to me.

At least the plugin hybrids have some plus points, the self charging ones are a joke.

 

1 hour ago, Felix2021 said:

Again - PHEV CAN be great in some use cases (if charged). I cannot charge PHEV at home at the moment, only at work. But since working from home most of the time, i wouldn't benefit from that, hence i went with 1.5.

It was well thought-through choice in my case.

But if i could charge at home, i would go with PHEV.

Hope you do understand now my point of view

I understand it and I've not got a problem with it.

I think hearing how great a PHEV is reminds me very much of when I worked with somebody who owned one of the early prius. They were all sanctamonius about how great his MPG was and how the car was amazing. The talk was about how they could get 45-50MPG on a good run, whilst at the same time we were all seeing way over that in the diesels even on a bad run.

 

Fundamentally the advantage of a PHEV is really with the car manufacturer.

They charge more, use a smaller engine and a battery, which gives a lower official (But rarely real world) emissions figure.

This helps them avoid EU fines and allows them to get higher performance from a smaller engine.

It's good, but it's not green. Nothing is zero emissions.

 

My argument is that if people are doing low enough PHEV miles to always be on battery, they should have just gone EV and hired ICE when they needed to go over 250-300 miles. If they're regularly doing longer journeys, then the weight penalty is always there and after the first 20-30 miles your MPG suffers for it. At which point a TDI or TSI is a better bet. The hybrid might be a nice idea, but in reality having both engine and transmission as well as battery and motor is a huge weight penalty. In reality you would better off doing a range extender (i3 Rx) so the engine never drives the wheels, which would save loads of weight in transmission and a smaller engine as a generator only. You could also swap petrol for CNG or Autogas etc and have a less heavy generator.

 

 

1 hour ago, Felix2021 said:

I never said PHEV's are always great. I said they CAN be great for SOME people, that use them as they are supposed to be used.

Everyone should carefully choose what is best for them. For some it will be EV, for others PHEV or petrol or diesel. Depends on the use case. And fortunately we have a choice.

 

Really as above, I think the current and previous generation of PHEV, bar a small number (i3 Rx) are greenwashing.

The choice is fine, but the PHEV shouldn't receive tax breaks for being green.

Edited 1 July, 2022 by cheezemonkhai

[Ootohere]

How many Taxi / Private hire drivers are actually using a VW Group Plug in Hybrid as their work vehicle?

 

Do those that maybe do a short school run type contract where they are out for a few miles a few time a day and charging between times bother with them? 

[LSport]

Worth noting that most plug-in hybrids are not able to take fast charging. 

 

I was against hybrids also, until recently when its become clear due to the sheer volume of EV's sold, the UK infrastructure is not able to support them.  Owners are reporting frequent queues as well as complaining that a high portion of public chargers are constantly failing or out of action.  Now prices to charge are going up at an alarming rate.  Ionity is now around 67p per kwh.  Compare that with the price of petrol?  If the infrastructure was similar to Norway for example, both our vehicles at home would be EV's, no question.  For longer journeys, we would of rented a large petrol Kodiaq which I've done the last 2 years, but it is worth noting its another additional expense and a hassle picking it up and dropping it back at specific times, etc.... It is not as easy as just renting a vehicle.

 

Our 2nd vehicle is a full EV E-Golf.  Limited range and used for the morning school run and wife to go to work and after school clubs.  Our main vehicle is now a Octavia IV estate.  I collect the kids each day from school so can run in electric mode only.  I have the benefit of charging at home which I do with both vehicles.  On long runs (once or twice a month), I don't intend to use public chargers, charging only at our destinations only.  The ICE engine purrs along the motorway and I enjoy not having any range anxiety or worry about having to charge along the route.  Something I have done when taking the E-Golf further afield.  If you have experienced this, I'm sure you can sympathise that this is not a nice feeling.  For some, plug-in hybrids work.  There is no right or wrong answer, just choices made based on each situation.

 

I've read lots of reports that continually say over time batteries will get cheaper.  Since EV's took off, how many of those models have had a price drop?  Thinking back over the years where we have seen a constant supply of ICE vehicles.  A Ford Fiesta as an example, with each new model over it's long history, not one ever had a price reduction.  Costing more than the previous.  Yes additional technology was added, but is that not the same as an EV?  Chinese models flooding the marker may change this but in my opinion (and I hope I am wrong), EV's may continue to remain high compared to similar ICE models. 

[Ootohere]

Ionity has been 69 pence kWh for a long time now.

BMW Managed to drop thousands off BMW i3's over night as did other manufacturers at the last EV Grant change in the UK before this last one scrapping the grant. 

 

Every EV that arrives in the UK will be road registered at some point soon even if there was no buyer waiting as they are to get the Average C02 down in the UK.

Same with Mild or PHEV's.  Manipulate the figures.

 

VW are a bit stuffed as Partners like MG Motors have now suspended EV orders on the current cars and are waiting on the new models and there is the battery shortage. 

 

*VW wish that Chinese EV's could flood the EU or UK as they are counting on them assisting their low emissions, they are stuffed though because the supply issue is hitting them all'.*

 

They will need to concentrate on more Smaller Battery EV's being first registered.  3 Small battery cars rather than 1 or 2 SUV sized cars. 

 

There is a kidology on the Emissions across manufacturers and they will be asking the EU Governments & the UK Governments to treat them to a relaxing of the penalties for not meeting the required average emissions. 

Edited 1 July, 2022 by roottoot