I'll be able to check real world mpg when I next refuel as I keep a spreadsheet of fuel details - cost, volume, etc. However it could be a while before I report - I last refuelled 9 weeks ago and the tank is still 3/4 full. Yesterday I did a 26 mile drive on e-power. I drove fairly slowly on narrow country roads and after 26 miles, there was still another 10 miles range indicated. The aircon was on, so I'm very impressed.

On 18/08/2022 at 20:57, Felix2021 said:

Depends on what you mean by "few points per liter", but in my case it seems to be around 0.5l/100km. Test drove manual and DSG versions on the same route, in same conditions, mix of city and highway. 0.5l/100 is roughly 7-10% (in my case), so it's rather considerable difference i would say. Manufacturers tend to do more crazy things to achieve 5% savings

Also mHEV need some getting used to, to use it's potential.

Anyway i wanted DSG, and this is only possible combination. Price difference between manual and mHEV in Poland was the same, as with other cars between manual and DSG (without mHEV), so this system is kind of free for me

I like it a lot.

 

The are a few manufacturers selling  here with various very mild hybrid models  and the improvement claims vary from 0.3 to 0.5L/100 which ties with your experience at the better end, and I am pleased to hear you enjoy yours and I also agree with you about learning to drive to the mHEV characteristics. Very few professional car reviewers would have the time or  inclination to do that, in much the same way they don't pay for their fuel or work out real consumption but just quote the display.

 

You are right about the lengths that some manufacturers go to improve consumption for ice, but not many are proving to be really (or commercially) successful in the real world; Nissan variable compression engine and  Mazda compression ignition spring to mind but there are more.

Stop/start technology made a similar improvements to NEDC consumption claims (about 0.5L/100) but in real life some people just switch it off because it is 'overactive' and others are reporting their expensive AGM batteries seem to experience relatively short lives and I'm not sure if the latter case if the fuel savings are greater than battery replacement costs? 

If the mHEV has more benefits than negatives then I shouldn't and won't be critical, but it would be nice if the consumption improvements around town were a bit better  

 

My wife and I both drive our Octavia, she averages a creditable 5.9L/100 driving to and from work in our peak traffic in an outer urban environment. I will average about 15% less in the same conditions, no electrickery just technique.

 

24 minutes ago, Jim2015 said:

I'll be able to check real world mpg when I next refuel as I keep a spreadsheet of fuel details - cost, volume, etc. However it could be a while before I report - I last refuelled 9 weeks ago and the tank is still 3/4 full. Yesterday I did a 26 mile drive on e-power. I drove fairly slowly on narrow country roads and after 26 miles, there was still another 10 miles range indicated. The aircon was on, so I'm very impressed.

 

That would be greatly appreciated and take your time, it just shows that your vehicle of choice is ideal for your circumstances and needs.

I'm not sure how your figures will compare with the 'since refuel' display details (if you have one) since it quite possible your time between refuels will be greater than the 'long term' display automatic reset? First world problem  

Thanks Gerrycan. As an interim mpg figure, over 5747 miles the Octy has averaged 85.2 mpg in real-world numbers. It's likely to be much higher since the last refill as I've used mainly e-power for the last two months. I read today that your former pm was nicknamed Side Hustle Scotty as he appointed himself to five ministerial roles in addition to being pm. One writer was quoted as saying that we all know people who can't do their own job but reckon they can do everyone else's better. At least Australia in not rudderless now, unlike the UK where little seems to be under control and not likely to be until the new pm is in place in September. I just hope that a plague of locusts will not be the final crisis to challenge us poor beleagured Brits!

It is nice in Australia, North America & other world regions that 1.4 TSI without ACT are available & with an 8 speed automatic.

 

Cars that emit what ever emissions they do and no kidology like WLTP for those. 

6 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Very few professional car reviewers would have the time or  inclination to do that, in much the same way they don't pay for their fuel or work out real consumption but just quote the display.

Fortunately there are some

Check out this YT channel (link to videos about eTSI engines):

https://www.youtube.com/c/1001cars/search?query=etsi

They also do some other tests, like testing all assisting systems in the cars. Quite nice and informative.

 

6 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Stop/start technology made a similar improvements to NEDC consumption claims (about 0.5L/100) but in real life some people just switch it off because it is 'overactive' and others are reporting their expensive AGM batteries seem to experience relatively short lives and I'm not sure if the latter case if the fuel savings are greater than battery replacement costs? 

Actually mHEV is what makes S&S finally usable. Generator-motors has enough power to start engine instantaneously without (much) vibration and lag, and additional Li-Ion battery used by this system minimizes the risk of battery failure.

My 2 previous cars were Seat Leon (1.4 TSI 122HP) and Ateca (1.5 TSI DSG). In both first thing i did was to disable S&S. Despite of that i had 2 battery failures in Leon within 4,5 years of ownership (one when the car was 1,5 year old). I did that to save engine, but also because engine start was annoying and generated quite some vibrations. And finally in Ateca it caused huge lag (not so much in Leon, as it was MT, so engine started when clutch was pressed, which gave more control over S&S).

Now in Octavia i never disable it. In a way stopped caring SO much about the engine, as i will probably change the car before anything happens anyway. But mostly because it's so usable finally. It starts engine in a blink of an eye, with no vibration and lag. It's perfect. And really saves fuel, especially in heavy traffic in the city.

6 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

My wife and I both drive our Octavia, she averages a creditable 5.9L/100 driving to and from work in our peak traffic in an outer urban environment. I will average about 15% less in the same conditions, no electrickery just technique.

1.4 TSI was exceptionally good engine. As said - i had Leon 5F with 1.4 122 HP (EA211). It was great. Very quiet, punchy and economical.

By comparison 1.5 is more noisy, probably due to GPF, and at least in the beginning it was not so economical (at least 150 HP version in my Ateca).

Now it's better than first series, but is it better than 1.4? I doubt it.

But i'm anyway pleased now. Just had a vacation road trip. 4300km from Poland, through Baltics, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany and back to Poland. Mix of highways, speedways and smaller roads. Average speed around 100km/h. Average consumption from this was 5.45l/100km. Least i had was 4.7 in the Baltics (some highway in Lithuania, mostly one carriage roads), most was 5.7 (highways in Denmark, 130km/h, Germany, 130-150km/h and strong wind in the nose, and Poland 140km/h, next speedway in Poland, 120km/h) on 1100km trip. It's pretty good as for rather large car with petrol engine, with 2 adults, 2 kids and trunk full (literally full) of stuff for 2 week trip.

So far it seems Octavia is a bit more economical, than my Leon used to be (maybe by 0,5l/100km) and MUCH more economical than Ateca (roughly 30% - will never buy SUV again, unless normal cars are not available anymore ).

5 hours ago, roottoot said:

It is nice in Australia, North America & other world regions that 1.4 TSI without ACT are available & with an 8 speed automatic.

 

Cars that emit what ever emissions they do and no kidology like WLTP for those. 

Maybe, but only yesterday our govt announced an intent to raise our fuel standards from third world to first world, similar with emission standards and also to encourage EV take-up and local availability.

In the meantime there are diminishing options for my preference of fuel efficient manual and non SUV.

It is a good move but I recognise that it brings the complications you mention.

Edited 19 August, 20223 yr by Gerrycan

@Felix2021, thanks for your all your info.

Yes our 1.4tsi is good but there is no way it could match your 1.5tsi for fuel consumption at those speeds. A reflection of the better efficiency of Mk4's engine, higher gearing and far better aerodynamics I think.

I get similar consumption in our fully loaded Mk3 for similar distances but operating at our heavily policed 110 and 100 kmh speed limits.

Edited 19 August, 20223 yr by Gerrycan

11 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

Yes our 1.4tsi is good but there is no way it could match your 1.5tsi for fuel consumption at those speeds. A reflection of the better efficiency of Mk4's engine, higher gearing and far better aerodynamics I think.

I would say the difference is mostly aerodynamics, and some effect of mHEV. As said - Ateca with same engine was nowhere near those results. Of course it's a bigger car with worse aerodynamics, but still...

MK4 is really very, very good when it comes to aerodynamics with it's Cx of 0,249:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

The faster you drive, the bigger difference it makes, both for performance and fuel economy.

2 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

I would say the difference is mostly aerodynamics, and some effect of mHEV. As said - Ateca with same engine was nowhere near those results. Of course it's a bigger car with worse aerodynamics, but still...

MK4 is really very, very good when it comes to aerodynamics with it's Cx of 0,249:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

The faster you drive, the bigger difference it makes, both for performance and fuel economy.

Agreed. Aerodynamics and a 1.5tsi manual; return leg from a few days away - 271 miles at 57mph average (a lot of motorway at 70mph and some minor & urban roads) and 64.5 mpg.

Similar on the way there. More urban roads but still got over 62mpg.

I promised Gerrycan that I'd provide real world mpg figures when I refuelled. It's nearly 12 weeks since I last put fuel in and the predicted range, with just under half a tank of petrol left, was 820 miles. The mpg based on brimming the tank was 117mpg, whereas the onboard data stated 120mpg, which isn't far out. This latest value has taken the mpg since new up from 85.2 mpg to 87.6 mpg after 6378 miles.

@Jim2015 is that the range that shows after doing more than say 60 miles after setting out fully charged and having almost depleted the battery? 

One problem which plug-in hybrids bring is that it's really hard to quote an MPG figure which is meaningful to someone else's usage.

If one person only ever makes 20 mile journeys and can charge at the end of each one, then they could presumably have almost infinite MPG in an Octavia IV .
Someone else may make journeys over very similar roads but only be able to charge every 100 miles; their MPG would be a lot worse in the exact same car.

So unless you have pretty detailed info on usage (and it would take someone much more diligent than me to collect that sort of info on how I used my car), an MPG figure on its own for a PHEV can be pretty meaningless to another driver.
There was always some variation when quoting MPG for a petrol or diesel car; for example some people may drive mostly around town when others spend more of their time on motorways, but PHEVs make the variation much wider.

So I think the best way to measure economy  and have some hope of it being meaningful to others is to quote 2 figures:  "pure EV range", and "battery empty MPG" (what MPG do you get after flattening the battery). That way you can apply those figures to your own typical usage and get some idea of economy to expect.
But also I appreciate that running down the battery and then using petrol may not be the most efficient way to use the car so many people may not drive their cars in a way which make those figures easy to collect, unless they are specifically setting out to test the car's economy (eg. as a car magazine might do).
It's tricky...

Maybe the most simple way is to calculate cost per mile rather than mpg.  This would mean retaining all the accumulated charging costs for all your usage during one full tank of petrol, and add it on to the refuelling cost. 
 

If you don’t include charging costs, it’s like starting the day with a free gallon of fuel that you don’t need to factor into your mpg costs. 

 

At least at the end of that period, you’d have an accurate cost per mile that you could then easily compare to typical diesel or petrol variants of the same vehicle. 
 

the problem will soon be that pure electric miles will cost more than pute petrol ones once the new energy price cap comes in, in October. 

22 minutes ago, Benjybobs said:

the problem will soon be that pure electric miles will cost more than pute petrol ones once the new energy price cap comes in, in October. 

And is very dependent on where you charge (home, paid public, free public) and when at home whether you are lucky enough to be on a tariff that offers cheaper overnight unit rates. So those costs will be very personal and may be not be relevant to another owner whose charging pattern and home tariff is very different.

I've spent £481 on petrol, £122 on electricity and done 6378 miles which works out to be 9.45p/mile. In comparison, our petrol Karoq cost 17.8 p/mile and our 4x4 diesel Yeti cost 16p/mile. At present, Octopus Go charges 7.5p/kWh for 4 hours off peak ie 97.5p for about 27 miles on e-power. Most of our current motoring is short journeys on e-power and occasional longer journeys in hybrid mode, so obviously the mpg is unique to us. However, the savings over the time we have the car will be substantial.

I’m the same - most of my journeys are on electric. I do use the car a lot but I’ve not put any unleaded in since June 15th and I still have 2/3rds of a tank left. 
 

I am on a fixed electric tariff until January and it cost me about 6.5p a mile on electric and about 15p a mile on unleaded. 
 

One advantage of the hybrid is that I know my electric cost will double and probably triple in February - I have the choice of just not charging the car (unless I can get it charged for free) and using unleaded instead!!! I feel slightly sorry for people with full EVs being forced onto expensive tariffs which will make their cars very costly to run. 

2 hours ago, Jim2015 said:

I've spent £481 on petrol, £122 on electricity and done 6378 miles which works out to be 9.45p/mile. In comparison, our petrol Karoq cost 17.8 p/mile and our 4x4 diesel Yeti cost 16p/mile. At present, Octopus Go charges 7.5p/kWh for 4 hours off peak ie 97.5p for about 27 miles on e-power. Most of our current motoring is short journeys on e-power and occasional longer journeys in hybrid mode, so obviously the mpg is unique to us. However, the savings over the time we have the car will be substantial.

But to be fair, my Octavia, (SEL 150 TDi) so car for car, is only costing 11.6 p per mile as I get 70mpg routinely on my journeys (65 mpg over last 10000 miles so 12.5p long term including town driving) and diesel at £1.80 litre which should get better not worse unlike electricity costs. If Diesel drops to pre crisis level of say £1:40 it will cost 9p a mile to run...... The average cost of fuel for the year I had the car prior to the Rus-Ukr war (2021 - Feb 2022) was £1:25 litre so it averaged at 8.7p per mile for the first 5000 miles I ran the car. For me I have saved a lot of money by having a diesel over hybrid for my journeys, a hybrid would have cost me a lot more in fuel (both types).

 

As ever its all about how you use the car, so to put it in perspective a friend has a Cayenne Hybrid that his wife uses for work, hardly ever fills it up, probably averaging well in excess of 200mpg based on electric 95% time, but when we both drove to the Alps and back this summer he got under 25mpg for the 1700 miles and I got 65mpg..... 

Edited 6 September, 20223 yr by matrix2020

A diesel engine would not suit us as our journeys are usually short, potentially giving rise to DPF problems. Our Yeti (diesel) was used for the same type of journeys hence the figure of 16p/mile quoted: we live in a hilly part of N Yorkshire. Plus I had to take the Yeti on high-speed runs to regen the DPF.

14 hours ago, Jim2015 said:

I've spent £481 on petrol, £122 on electricity and done 6378 miles which works out to be 9.45p/mile. In comparison, our petrol Karoq cost 17.8 p/mile and our 4x4 diesel Yeti cost 16p/mile. At present, Octopus Go charges 7.5p/kWh for 4 hours off peak ie 97.5p for about 27 miles on e-power. Most of our current motoring is short journeys on e-power and occasional longer journeys in hybrid mode, so obviously the mpg is unique to us. However, the savings over the time we have the car will be substantial.

 

Rounding your figures a bit for ease of calculation I have said it costs one pound for 27 miles so you covered around 3294 miles on pure electric. The remaining 3084 miles on petrol cost 481 pounds so averaging fuel cost over that period at say one pound sixty pence litre I think that works out consumption at about 45mpg......unless I am doing something wrong?

That is not bad but I was expecting a bit better in hybrid mode.

Then again a lot better than a hybrid Cayenne.

EDIT If you have the actual number of litres you put in then the consumption figures would be more accurate than my rough assumptions.

Edited 6 September, 20223 yr by Gerrycan

Is there any way you can see how many miles you have done on petrol and then electric? I.e. 1000 miles on petrol and 50 miles on electric? I cant see it in any menus, my A3 Hybrid had it showing in the mileage menu...

Gerrycan: I have put in 331 litres of petrol. Chrisg2021: the vehicle data after a journey shows mpg and remaining battery capacity. My calculations are based on a split of 50% between petrol and battery usage, which is quite accurate. The 87mpg figure overall is based on total miles covered and petrol bought, based on real data following brimming the tank. I estimate an mpg of 44 in petrol alone, based on very limited data.

It's certainly very individual. I find my journey, particularly to work leads to awful MPG due to traffic and terrain, I mean an overall of 40mpg in the Karoq was good going. 

 

I've gone the PHEV route now as no guaranteed charging at home and I need to have flexibility. I'm quite lucky to be able get to and from work with a charge and have about 10 miles left on the battery at present. We have work place chargers which are reasonable and there are free public ones 5 mins walk so economically it works out fairly well for me.

 

That said I think by rough calculations, 50p kWh is the breakeven where you may as well run on petrol. 

The government is now subsidising energy costs by providing funding to keep the price cap at £2500 for two years. This cap is based on a typical energy usage, so people will still pay for what they use, but at a capped rate. We are on a fixed deal for electricity and gas until March and April 2023 respectively. I'm hoping that this allows Octopus Energy to continue offering an off-peak rate of 7.5p/kWh for two years and possibly reduce it, although a contract is in force. Octopus claim to provide green energy, which is cheaper to produce than fossil fuel, so I wonder whether there is scope for a further reduction?

Edited 8 September, 20223 yr by Jim2015

http://lovemyev.com/explore/ev-tafiffs/ev-tariffs

 

 

The Government spends the peoples money.

Green is kidology as is Ofgem approved renewable energy certificates.  Like Carbon Trading. 

http://octopus.energy/green

 

Octopus provides energy to & from the National Grid, Octopus owns wind farms and means of generating renewables.  They also burn woodchip pellets.

The Government call energy from DRAX green, it is not emissions free.  

Energy is sold and bought on a global market.  EDF have Green Energy production in the UK and export to France where customers pay 2 1/2 times less than we do in the UK.

But then the French Government / the people own 85% of EDF. 

 

I have seen my first Octavia iV public charging.  No problem with how long it sits getting a free charge, there are other hybrids and EV's that sit for hours, and some sit all day or night. 

 

 

Nobody is getting just Renewables electricity from the National Grid.

You need to be generating your own to know if you get from wind, solar, hydro etc.

 

14 mins, 30 seconds.

 

 

Edited 20 September, 20223 yr by roottoot