80% price increase, that's going to be around 50p/kWh for electricity. 

 

If you are not on EV tariff, you'd be paying around 16.6p/miles assuming 3mi/kWh. 

As many here have already observed, this pricing no longer makes EV cheaper to drive. 

 

Of course, if you are on EV tariff (Octopus Go 7.5p for 4 hours is still open to sign up, tariff fixed for 1 year). It is 2.5p/miles at same 3mi/kWh, still waaaaay cheaper to drive EV. 

This also makes it cheaper to heat bedrooms and hot water tank with electricity than gas overnight. This is what I'll be doing using smart plugs and room thermostats. 

 

So if you are driving EV, be sure to switch while deals are out there ASAP!

Electric @ 52 pence a kWh capped price 1st October. 

 

?

How much is the non off peak kWh with Octopus or will that just be the 52 pence a kWh until the next increase at the end of the year?

The 52p came from here I presume? 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/what-are-the-price-cap-unit-rates-/

That is a prediction. 80% of current 28p is at 50p. Not much difference, but the prediction was saying almost 100% increase (vs 80% that was announced today), hence pretty much double unit rates on both gas and electric. 

 

I signed up to Octopus Go around July time, my electricity is fixed at 7.5p 0:30-4:30, 35p other times, 37.65p per day standing, fixed for 12 months. 

I'm on standard variable tariff for gas though. 

I see Octopus Go tariff haven't increased, still at 7.5p/40p when I checked earlier today, might be worth signing up to that ASAP (you must be already with Octopus). 

https://octopus.energy/go/new/

Presume not.

 

 

Thanks. Nice to see it directly from the source. 

 

But I can't grasp how those prices can translate to the headline 80% increase. Electricity unit price is 85%, gas is 100% increase, on top of that, standing charge has also increased. 

7 hours ago, roottoot said:

Electric @ 52 pence a kWh capped price 1st October. 

 

?

How much is the non off peak kWh with Octopus or will that just be the 52 pence a kWh until the next increase at the end of the year?

 

I will be paying 40p per kWh for the 20 hours of non off peak but I expect to only use a third of my lecky downloaded in the more expensive period.

 

I will load up my 1.8 kWh battery in my larger solar generator as well some of the 400 Wh, 150 Wh and 100 Wh ones I have and they will power most of the houses devices during the day ie fridge-freezer, laptop, router, phone, probably TV and Sky box, various Alexa devices, stand lights and anything else I can think of, even small electrical radiators.

 

No word from Octopus yet on the Flexible gads price which is currently 7.5p kWh but I expect that to go to about 14 p kWh ie bit less than the Big 6 if they charge 15p kWh for gas.

 

I posted this per kWh sheet on another thread. It is based on the ofgem figures from October and shouldn’t be used for more than approximations and personal interest. Do not treat it as accurate.

 

Surprise surprise London is the cheapest electric standard charge by a long way.. That’s pretty insulting when there is limited generation.

Edited 28 August, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

I'm outside London but within the m25.

 

Leccy standing charge is £0.38 per day

Gas is £0.2722

 

but on a rate I fixed back in March

 

What I don't get with these rises is why the standing charge rises, the infrastructure is already in place and hasn't been touched.

5 hours ago, petrolcan said:

I'm outside London but within the m25.

 

Leccy standing charge is £0.38 per day

Gas is £0.2722

 

but on a rate I fixed back in March

 

What I don't get with these rises is why the standing charge rises, the infrastructure is already in place and hasn't been touched.

 

Because the standing charge, at least in part, pays for the bailouts of those, 29 so far, failed energy providers.  Which I think is wrong as the government allowed this "chancers" to trade and leave debt and stranded customers so they should have arranged insurance, paid by the new supplier themselves, I reckon. Standing charges are heading to  upwards  too but much slower than the actual energy rates.

 

I did not realize so many are on pre-payment ie about 4.5M households and they pay a rate a penny or two higher and if those on pre-payment are low volume users ie say 5 kWh per pay or less, the standing charge effectively is making their per unit charge more than 60p per kWh.   I can see houses do what I have seen in several Asian countries ie supplying neighbours via trailing leads and getting payment from them, or supplying relatives for free etc,  I could sell night time lecky at say 20p per kWh that I have paid 5p, soon to be 7.5p per kWh and make a tidy profit.  Saves them as the could be paying 40p kWh or over that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by lol-lol

13 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I posted this per kWh sheet on another thread. It is based on the ofgem figures from October and shouldn’t be used for more than approximations and personal interest. Do not treat it as accurate.

 

Surprise surprise London is the cheapest electric standard charge by a long way.. That’s pretty insulting when there is limited generation.

London unit costs are most expensive, looking at that table. 
 

Only cheaper for standing cost, which makes sense if you think about population density and resulting lower cost of providing service per household. 

1 minute ago, wyx087 said:

 

Only cheaper for standing cost, which makes sense if you think about population density and resulting lower cost of providing service per household. 

 

 

Bang on you beat me to it...   Its all to do with number of customers served by infrastructure vs cost of that infrastructure.  More customers equals lower cost...   Simple and no conspiracy theories needed. 

Real world.  Higher density, London, cities.  More fixed by-passed  meters. More electricity theft and fraud. England and Wales news articles on 5 year jail sentences.  Truth, you get away lightly with what they estimate was stolen and more often than not nobody is being prosecuted.    Same in Scotland.   I know a couple (brothers) that had a converted bank building with 8 flats and 10 years worth of electric theft and were charged £1,500.  A few years back but that was the only property they were caught at, the others somehow carried on the same for years.    Less dense populated areas and less fraud and theft of electricity but paying for where there is.   But then that is London and the Government allowing slum land lords, properties including sheds and garages being rented out as accomodation.   Even local authorities not even who or how many live in properties like the tower block that so many died in. 

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

11 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Bang on you beat me to it...   Its all to do with number of customers served by infrastructure vs cost of that infrastructure.  More customers equals lower cost...   Simple and no conspiracy theories needed. 

But no generation there, larger transmission issues too. More load on a cable = bigger cables and transformers = much more cost and more heat.  Much more expensive to install/maintain and not in a linear way.

 

 

I have to say I don't know the details. But I would have thought this is similar to parcel service last-mile costs, where the cost to ship thousands of parcel from hub to hub is much lower than cost to ship a few parcels to a group of households in a village miles from big cities. 

 

The non-linear cost scaling and infrastructure problem is understandable, the unit cost somewhat reflects that. Though I'd expect London to pay more and have more time-of-use price swing in a non-averaged system. 

 

But grid transmission losses are way less than any form of storage conversion losses. So it's always best to send excess renewable supply out and lower the unit price to create induced demand. 

According to this publication, only 1.7% is in transmission losses, 5-8% for distribution losses. 

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-transmission/document/144711/download#:~:text=Citizens Advice suggests that about,voltage causes lower network losses.

15 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

But no generation there, larger transmission issues too. More load on a cable = bigger cables and transformers = much more cost and more heat.  Much more expensive to install/maintain and not in a linear way.

 

 

 

Actually there is an increase in initial installation costs for more load but this gets written off fairly quickly and in terms of maintenance there isn't much difference between a big transformer and a smaller one. So once installed ongoing costs aren't that much different so, spread amongst a larger denser number of customers the standing charge is less. 

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by skomaz

1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

Actually there is an increase in initial installation costs for more load but this gets written off fairly quickly and in terms of maintenance there isn't much difference between a big transformer and a smaller one. So once installed ongoing costs aren't that much different so, spread amongst a larger denser number of customers the standing charge is less. 

 

I'm surprised as I was thinking along the line of cables.

 

For example a cable to deal with 1000A is a lot lot cheaper to buy, handle and repair/replace sections that deal with 10,000A.

I suppose you get around this with more local transformers and running things at higher voltages into the basement of the blocks of flats where it is then stepped down.

So I see the HMRC advisory mileage rates have adjusted for fuel, but that electric is still at 5p per mile.

That assumes between 15-20p per kWh @ 3-4 miles/kWh.

 

That's a pretty good reasons to avoid going electric if you only get paid the advisory rates.

That's typical of the government, very bad at adopting to change. Clearly someone missed last Friday's news. 

 

But at the same time, it's very difficult to predict EV running cost. It ties in with house leccy tariff and percentage of public charging. If someone were on EV tariff and use limited public charging, 5p is borderline reasonable. 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

So I see the HMRC advisory mileage rates have adjusted for fuel, but that electric is still at 5p per mile.

That assumes between 15-20p per kWh @ 3-4 miles/kWh.

 

That's a pretty good reasons to avoid going electric if you only get paid the advisory rates.

 

Yet if you receive no pence per miles compensation, because you get both a car allowance and fuel card (choose between diesel, electricity and petrol),  then the self assessment form seems to suggest you can claim the difference between 45p per mile for the first 10k, and one is getting zero due to the car allowance and card, so that is 20% or 40% of the 45p it seems to work out on the Self Assessment software ie 9p or 18p a mile which is good to going to pay towards all the other car running overhead ie service, tyres, business user insurance etc.

 

By next Wednesday there will be a new Chancellor or the Exchequer or the same one still in place, and a new Secretary of State for Transport, & a Energy & Business Minister, 

so maybe no Emergency Budget, but there is a Budget coming and another next year so lots might change and before April 2023.

 

Overnight with EV Grants things changed this year and almost overnight VAT rates can change and much more like Business Users and vehicles / charging and taxes. 

 

Business wants changes and remember that among Boris's main donors & supporters are ones heavily involved in EV Subscriptions, and also in Green Hydrogen & vehicles / plant etc.

His father happens to own JCB. 

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Yet if you receive no pence per miles compensation, because you get both a car allowance and fuel card (choose between diesel, electricity and petrol),  then the self assessment form seems to suggest you can claim the difference between 45p per mile for the first 10k, and one is getting zero due to the car allowance and card, so that is 20% or 40% of the 45p it seems to work out on the Self Assessment software ie 9p or 18p a mile which is good to going to pay towards all the other car running overhead ie service, tyres, business user insurance etc.

 

 

You can claim the difference in tax, however 18p per mile for a circa 50MPG diesel, vs 5p per mile for a 3.5m/kWh electric.

@£2/litre, you're really using 27L to do 300 miles, so about £54, whilst being paid £54.

@£0.5/kWh, you're using 86kWh, which will cost £43 (Winning) but you get paid only £15 (Losing big time).

 

If the government want people to go electric and help hit the net zero targets then the price per mile for electric needs to be reviewed quarterly as the fuel is.

Fuel is priced about right for just fuel and electric costs you about £30/300 miles or 10p per mile.

 

38 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

You can claim the difference in tax, however 18p per mile for a circa 50MPG diesel, vs 5p per mile for a 3.5m/kWh electric.

@£2/litre, you're really using 27L to do 300 miles, so about £54, whilst being paid £54.

@£0.5/kWh, you're using 86kWh, which will cost £43 (Winning) but you get paid only £15 (Losing big time).

If the government want people to go electric and help hit the net zero targets then the price per mile for electric needs to be reviewed quarterly as the fuel is.

Fuel is priced about right for just fuel and electric costs you about £30/300 miles or 10p per mile.

 

My dilemma, which must be similar to many with car allowance and fuel card, whether electric is really so much better as a benefit.  Companies providing access to EV salary sacrifice scheme looks really good but my firm is only just talking about it.  With fuel ie diesel. petrol and electricity it is a weird calculation with the variable changing so quickly and most companies do like their employee changing several times a year as to which benefit the want but fuel prices and car availability have been so all over the place it.

 

I can charge at home for 5p a kW hour and the Zoe does about 4 miles per kWh averaged over winter and summer but if I change my diesel fuel card to an electric Allstar car will I be better off.   It would be ideal if I could charge my home electricity to the Employer.  I think charging to SOC 90% is probably best, so I get best regen and then using Gridserve on the way home, as near as home as possible, and charge to 90% again.  Only charge to 100%, which is really about 103%, when I have particularly long journeys to do.

 

I think the decision will just come down to a wish not to use dinosaur juice with all its consequences and just be happy that either home charging or charging during the journey with the fuel card is going to be 10p a kWh or less ie 2.5p a mile and this makes it small compared to the actual car allowance, even if doing 6000 work miles a year and if one is doing a couple thousand private miles that are also subsidised then happy days and just thank lucky stars for some company perks.

 

Was hoping to get a free charge at Forest Green Rovers on Saturday but I think they only have 4 chargers.  Their new stadium off the M5 should be mega when built and hopefully dozens of free chargers, even of only 7 kwh ones , as long as you are a visitor coming to watch the game of course.  Dobbies garden centres are suppose to have charger now as well as service stations having Gridserve charge points at the more reasonable prices per kWh making charging still cheap with the RFID Allstar card charging back to employer and only then getting docked a fraction as BIK taxation thru payroll now rather than P11D and annually dealing with on Self Assessment return and tax code setting a level.

 

The only public charging i have paid for recently is the 35 pence a kWh & getting 20 kWh in 30 minutes, so £7.00.   

Getting 3 miles per kWh that is 60 miles for £7.

That is OK. 

 

I got only 2.7 miles per kWh for the last £7 of charging so that was 54 miles from that.

OK as well as far as i am concerned.

 

Paying 52 pence a kWh or more is just a no no really.  20 x 52 = £10.40 

69 pence x 20 kWh £13.80.  

Kicking the can down the road, let's "borrow" more to pay for this mess. 

 

At least this means charging EV is still cheaper than petrol/diesel for 2 years..... but until we see p/kWh all this price cap/guarantee are completely meaningless. 

Just now, wyx087 said:

but until we see p/kWh all this price cap/guarantee are completely meaningless. 

Totally agree - I doubt there's a single household in the country(ies) that actually pays the 'typical' amount, so until we know the costs/kWh and the standing charges it's impossible to know what this new 'cap' will actually mean for us individually.