Favorit front strut top mounts replacement

[wesacosa]

Hi all. I am in the process of replacing the top mounts on my 1994 Favorit.  I have bought a replacement top plate rubber mount and bump stop and bearing but not sure how tight the top mount should be when its all back together.  The ones I took off were quite easy to spin but when I put the new one on, first Problem is its impossible to toque up the piston nut to the 40Nm the Haynes manual says because you cant hold the piston and use a socket and you can't fit a crows foot spanner due to the top cup so all you can do is nip it up with a ring spanner.  But even just nipping  up the top mount (likely nowhere near 40Nm) it is very stiff to turn and if I try and tighten it a little more the top mount binds up

 

How should I proceed?

thanks 

[R_Blue]

Are your strut tops different than this?

[KenONeill]

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Are your strut tops different than this?

I'd recommend using an open-ended spanner, not a crescent spanner, on the central post, but yes a ring spanner on the nut.

[wesacosa]

I think the problem might be that the top mounts rubbers are slightly different to the ones that are on there. the new ones seem to be a slightly different height than the old ones which mean that even when the nut is just nipped up the bearings bind to the point you can hardly spin them with your hand.  the trouble is I have looked everywhere and there only seems to be one top mount rubber available . If I back the nut off a small bit the binding stops 

[Papez]

The old mounts are just deformed, this is how they should look like. Did you need a spring compressor to remove them?

[wesacosa]

I did wonder if they were just deformed but they looked so different I wasn't 100 percent sure, especially given the binding up of the bearing when I nipped the top nut. I used a spring compressor to get them off but I didn't try without 

[Papez]

3 hours ago, wesacosa said:

. I used a spring compressor to get them off but I didn't try without 

 

You'll certainly need it, I just wasn't sure whether favorit needed them, as it has a slightly different springs compared to Felicia. Pushing the spring a bit more didn't help?

 

Did you put the cups in the right order? They are slightly different.

[wesacosa]

I was pretty sure I put everything back in the right order. I did notice the replacement lower bearing cup was also very slightly different to the original.  I have to take it apart anyway because when I tried to do the other side the damper was shot so I need to replace the damper on the side I replaced the top mount on so I will have a proper look 

[Thefeliciahacker]

Please take a look at my custom developed tailored made hardness PU long lasting top mounts

[Thefeliciahacker]

Also for the favorit there is full custom PU SET developed for all bushings.
Lower wishbone F+R +
Rear Axle.
And offering them in infinitely varying hardness from 60ShA to 90ShA.
And also offering the sliding bushing with either lightweight alu pins or heavy duty steel pins.
Also offering PROPRIETARY graphite infused PU for reduced stiction, silent operation and longer service intervals.

P.S. A lot of R&D has gone into these bushings and expect a post revealing more details soon.

Edited 3 September, 2022 by Thefeliciahacker

[R_U_AFA]

Grease the bearing seat under the bearing, grease its internal hole betweeen the seat and bearing, then grease on top of the the bearing between it and the lower bush seat.

Also you could gently split the bearing and re-grease it internally(be carefull not to loose the ballbearings though), I have found that new ones sometimes come with not enough internal lubrication.

With regards the torque on the top nut, I've always just done it up as tight as possable by hand like in R_Blue's 2nd picture, and never had any problems (you should be reaching between 25-35 NM this way so not that far short of 40Nm anyway)

Edited 5 September, 2022 by R_U_AFA

[wesacosa]

How tight should the damper be in the hub knuckle. I got new dampers but they just seemed to drop into the hole, I didn't need to tap them in or wiggle them in.  obviously the pinch bolt will clamp on the location tag at back of the damper but it doesn't seem very tight around the front of the strut 

[J.R.]

It should be tight and you should need to spread the joint in order to slide them in, they certainly should not drop in and usually need some encouragement with a hide mallet, it sounds like you have the wrong diameter damper tubes, there are 2 sizes, I cant recall if they are 48 and 50mm or 50 and 55mm.

[wesacosa]

Hmm. It wasn't clear from all the searches I did which part I needed and these ones did suggest they fitted with the OEM part number of the original. I will get the tape measure out and compare to the others

 

Do you know what defines which diameter? Is it age of vehicle or hatchback versus estate/pickup ?

[J.R.]

The steering knuckles fitted to your vehicle which are usually to match the brake disc diameter and calipers used.

Edited 28 September, 2022 by J.R.

[wesacosa]

I just measured old versus new.  circumference of the main body is the same, although it seems perhaps there is a slightly more pronounced step down on the bit which goes into the knuckle on the new ones, but its hard to tell for sure as the old ones have corrosion.  Looking on the part catalogue there are loads of different knuckles and can't get the Skoda parts site to recognise my chassis number so not really sure how I am going to ensure the correct ones.  Made worse by fact mine is a 94 car where the changeover of a lot of parts were

 

[J.R.]

Circumference with a fabric tape should get you to an accurate enough comparison but you should be measuring the part the engages in the knuckle if it is stepped, a vernier caliper is what is really needed as you would then be able to measure the new ones without removing them.

 

Suffice to say that if they dropped into the hole they are not the correct size.

 

Someone was selling alloy adaptor sleeves on ebay for a certain strut/knuckle combination but I think they were 4 or 5mm thick, I was considering them for a big brake conversion on my car but retaining the smaller struts because I had only just replaced them, maybe the strut sizes were 50mm and 55mm.

[wesacosa]

I will get the Vernier on it tomorrow as it wasn't to hand today. however if there is a difference between the two I would say its less than 1mm but will see tomorrow... I wouldn't say they dropped in but they wiggled in by hand with small resistance. they certainly didn't need persuading in with a mallet 

[R_U_AFA]

I've only done this on a felicia but I seem to remember that the lip of the steped portion sits level with the top of the knuckle hole, but this isn't possable with yours because the tang on the location tab is stopping it from dropping any further into the hole, again mabey suggesting an incorrect part.

Whereabouts does the damper end in relation to the underside of the knuckle, it should be pretty much level with the bottom of the knuckle hole + or - a few mm.

I know it's not ideal but you could try to take up the tolerance up with some steel shim sheet material cut to size, or as J.R. says try find a coller/sleeve to fit.

[wesacosa]

the bottom sits out by a few mm when pushed as far as the location tab allows.   I am away at the moment but when back I will perhaps try the old one again back to back and see how different they are. Plus I will do the Vernier measurements which I didn't yet do

[Thefeliciahacker]

Are they crap quality maybe?

[wesacosa]

very probably 

[R_Blue]

I've measured the strut's thickness from just above knuckle. Hope this provides any help for you.

It's 45mm.

 

Original Code: 115495001

VW Code: 6U6413031B

Example product: Monroe G16130

[J.R.]

Only of relevance if your strut does not have a reduced diameter on the part that goes into the knuckle, the OP's does have, its hard to tell from the photo if yours does or doesn't.

[Papez]

On 04/10/2022 at 23:29, J.R. said:

Only of relevance if your strut does not have a reduced diameter on the part that goes into the knuckle, the OP's does have, its hard to tell from the photo if yours does or doesn't.

 

It is possible that reduced diameter is for the older model Favorit - there were changes on the front axle on 1993 model, although I'm not sure if there was a strut diameter change, too.

Post 1993 models had the same knuckles as Felicia - and based on VW number, R_Blue's strut is the newer variant.