Hello,

 

          I am now on my third Skoda Fabia and both the previous ones needed the brake fluid changing at 3 years for the first change and every 3 years after that. My present one was first registered March 3rd 2021  and a friend has told me that this has now changed.  They say the brake fluid needs changing for the first time at 2 years old and at 2 yearly intervals from then on.  From memory a brake fluid change costs 7O pounds at the main dealer and  my car has fourteen months left on the Skoda warranty so I am sticking with main dealer servicing so as not to give the dealership any let outs in case of a warranty claim. Yes, I do know that the car can be serviced at any VAT registered garage to keep the warranty but, frankly, I  think the dealer would wriggle out of responsibility if I did that. I may be wrong but that is how I feel. So it would be an extra 70 pounds on the bill if my friend is correct.

 

       if what I have been told is correct why has this change happened? Just to make more money for the dealer or what? Why was it  deemed OK  to have the first change at 3 years on both my previous  Fabias, a 63 plate and a 17 plate but then it changes in 2021? The fluid will presumably  be the same quality or even higher and the  the same quantity presumably, so why the  change? 7O pounds may not sound like a lot of money to some but it is a lot to me in the current cost of living crisis especially when I am not convinced there is a valid safety related reason.

 

      Thanks for reading.

Debate is over here too earlier

 

 

Well, I think it's another cash cow for the main stealers. All you need is a hygrometer check at 2 years, then annually to a change.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

It's your brakes.  Most are very concerned to get the engine oil changed thinking the engine is more important than brakes (? !! ?).

 

As with the other fluids (engine oil, gearbox oil, coolant) they may need changing a lot before or perhaps a bit (or lot?) after any schedules, you could do analysts but then you need to know how accurate the testing is and to remember regularly to do the testing.

 

I'd sooner have the brake fluid in good condition than the engine oil (and I'd sooner the engine oil is in good condition).  It's only because it's so cheap that the motor trade hasn't come up with something better than the brake fluid they use, cars have such ancient technologies.

 

Same with tyres which are part of the braking system (and steering and suspension) some people seem a lot less concerned about them than the engine, or it's oil, you should always be more concerned about how well a vehicle stops than how well it goes (over than steering and suspension).

 

My 1973 Driver's Handbook had to change the brake fluid every 18 months.

 

Do whichever system you want for when to change the brake fluid but better sooner rather than later.

 

Edited 13 January, 20233 yr by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

We check with an electronic tester and if it is less than 2% we don't do it.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

24 minutes ago, Crasher said:

We check with an electronic tester and if it is less than 2% we don't do it.

But how do you test the tester, my concern would be that some electronic stuff can be poor quality or the quality control from manufacturer is poor so you might be in a lottery of getting one that is faulty/inaccurate, unreliable, or soon becomes so or worst a lottery of getting one that isn't.

 

Years back I was bought a cheap multimeter that I rarely used, Sod's Law just out of warranty it went haywire, it's replacement as another present sometime later was the same (perhaps a different label but IIRC both were Draper) and it went the same way.  Whether the lack of regular use contributed to the lack of longevity I don't know.  I was bought a third as a present, this time up in price by a multiple but not into expensive.  This one is longer lasting at least.  I was asked to take it over to a mate's (he actually bought it as the present) to compare it against the two existing cheaper meters he had plus the newer one he'd just bought.  All four showed different readings, mine which I think reads optimistically read slightly higher than his first two but all three were close in readings and his new one read under the other three by a bigger margin.

 

Edited 13 January, 20233 yr by nta16
spelling

My Bear is coming up to 3 years and is going for it's 2nd service in February.

 

Oil change and a look over.  Dealers don't do much more than that and call it a Service.

 

Everything else is extra and called Maintenance.

 

Utter shiite.

 

But, I booked online and did tick a box to add a Maintenance item called Brake Fluid Change for under £60.

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

But how do you test the tester, my concern would be that some electronic stuff can be poor quality or the quality control from manufacturer is poor so you might be in a lottery of getting one that is faulty/inaccurate, unreliable, or soon becomes so or worst a lottery of getting one that isn't.

 

Years back I was bought a cheap multimeter that I rarely used, Sod's Law just out of warranty it went haywire, it's replacement as another present sometime later was the same (perhaps a different label but IIRC both were Draper) and it went the same way.  Whether the lack of regular use contributed to the lack of longevity I don't know.  I was bought a third as a present, this time up in price by a multiple but not into expensive.  This one is longer lasting at least.  I was asked to take it over to a mate's (he actually bought it as the present) to compare it against the two existing cheaper meters he had plus the newer one he'd just bought.  All four showed different readings, mine which I think reads optimistically read slightly higher than his first two but all three were close in readings and his new one read under the other three by a bigger margin.

 

In the case of electronic brake fluid tester, it is fairly easy to check calibration - take several small samples of new, freshly-opened fluid in separate, clean pots and add a small percentage (by volume) of water to one sample - then see if tester agrees with samples.

One possible limitation of brake fluid testing is you would normally only test the contents of the master cylinder - although a sample could be drawn from a bleed nipple.

I tend to believe that, as brake fluid is so hygroscopic, moisture in the system is likely to migrate through the whole system. 

18 hours ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

But how do you test the tester

Dip it in clean fluid every now and again and if it says 0% then it’s OK. To go any further you would need calibrated test fluid. You also get a feel for how good it is after you have inserted it a few times and see how wet it is…😛

Can we assume that when someone pays for 'All In' or a Full Skoda / VW Group service plan for a Mk3 or 4 Fabia that UK Main Dealerships will first change the brake fluid @ 2 years old and then each 2 years.

 

Also a Fabia that is a Skoda Approved Used cars with a Full Service History will have had Brake Fluid Changes in that history or if not that will be done before the car is handed over. 

 

Lost my pig flying picture.

 

EDIT. Rest easy.

Edited 14 January, 20233 yr by toot

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

15 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

In the case of electronic brake fluid tester, it is fairly easy to check calibration - take several small samples of new, freshly-opened fluid in separate, clean pots and add a small percentage (by volume) of water to one sample - then see if tester agrees with samples.

One possible limitation of brake fluid testing is you would normally only test the contents of the master cylinder - although a sample could be drawn from a bleed nipple.

That's the thing the testing isn't really practical for your average user with one or two vehicles.  If you open a fresh bottle of fluid you really want to use it up or you then need to store it appropriately and I'm not sure of the suitability of the opened sales bottle, just putting a bit of cling film over and screwing the top back on might be reasonable but there's more air space and how good is the container.  I've just looked it up and the manufacturers give it 12 months from opening.

 

 

15 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

I tend to believe that, as brake fluid is so hygroscopic, moisture in the system is likely to migrate through the whole system. 

Depending on the vehicle perhaps that's my thinking too, when I was doing a fluid change I like to include a very thorough flush through too, luckily the systems were very low capacity so one litre was very generous for flushing and filling.

 

How ridiculous really that in the 21st century we're still farting about with such a nasty fluid but of course it's cheap for the motor trade and plenty of profit.

 

Edited 14 January, 20233 yr by nta16
spelling

& the brake fluid is getting changed at 2 years old with some / many EV's. 

 

They need to be doing something to make money. 

Even with cars where the brakes are seldom used because the car uses the motor to reduce speed much of the times. 

rear wheel drive with drum brakes make sense.

 

My rear discs changed at 24 months since first registered but 3 years since the car was built on my Electric Corsa are just a rusty mess again 3 months later. 

The Dealerships are not just charging anything like £60 to flush & change the brake fluid. 

 

http://insideevs.com/news/332016/nissan-leaf-brake-fluid-tester-might-save-you-a-costly-brake-fluid-change-video

 

Edited 14 January, 20233 yr by toot

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

42 minutes ago, Crasher said:

Dip it in clean fluid every now and again

As above where do you get the clean fluid from where you're certain it's clean and without (too much) moisture other than a unopened new bottle, then Amsoil have - "In ideal conditions, an unopened bottle of brake fluid lasts about two years.  It’s best to use a new bottle of brake fluid every time."

 

I've had personal experience of testing equipment being faulty and the tester not doing the test correctly (me) and relying on someone else saying they checked properly when they haven't so I judge the value of a test or testing perhaps with more scepticism than I should but it's each to their own.

  

43 minutes ago, nta16 said:

How ridiculous really that in the 21st century we're still farting about with such a nasty fluid

Various manufacturers have experimented with mineral oil brake fluid, but that tends to result in brake fade caused by water inclusions boiling in the calipers/wheel cylinders and/or the solid lines corroding from the inside.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

4 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Various manufacturers have experimented with mineral oil brake fluid, but that tends to result in brake fade caused by water inclusions boiling in the calipers/wheel cylinders and/or the solid lines corroding from the inside.

Yes I think it needs ideas from outside of the motor industry with more original thoughts and without looking for whatever is dirt cheap to use and already tied in with commercially mutually beneficial existing arrangements.  Sorry but you'll never convince me that the motor trade has made much effort to make changes but has put a lot of money and effort into making sure they don't have to.

 

So we deal with what we have, joyfully - or otherwise. 🤣

 

Fluids, coolants, lubricants of all sorts can get as fancy and high tech as they need to be but that costs.

Sometimes keeping consumables cheap makes sense and change them with regularity.

 

The issue is where you need to pay the labour and taxes for others to do things. 

But that labour when doing other stuff at the same time can be lots cheaper than failures and parts replacements.

 

This are going to be getting expensive because they can and people will have to pay.  As well to enjoy the present and much cheapness.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-environment-and-energy/why-shells-oils-and-fluids-are-still-vital-electric-car

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

That's the thing the testing isn't really practical for your average user with one or two vehicles.  If you open a fresh bottle of fluid you really want to use it up or you then need to store it appropriately and I'm not sure of the suitability of the opened sales bottle, just putting a bit of cling film over and screwing the top back on might be reasonable but there's more air space and how good is the container.  I've just looked it up and the manufacturers give it 12 months from opening.

 

 

Depending on the vehicle perhaps that's my thinking too, when I was doing a fluid change I like to include a very thorough flush through too, luckily the systems were very low capacity so one litre was very generous for flushing and filling.

 

How ridiculous really that in the 21st century we're still farting about with such a nasty fluid but of course it's cheap for the motor trade and plenty of profit.

 

For brake fluid tester calibration purposes, a small bottle of fluid is inexpensive - discard after expiry period if not used for occasional top ups. 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

2 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

For brake fluid tester calibration purposes, a small bottle of fluid is inexpensive - discard after expiry period if not used for occasional top ups. 

For many the cost of the small bottle of fluid could be multiple(s) the cost of the tester so depending on how often you use the tester you could replace it - but then you still have to test it for accuracy before first use.  😁

 

5 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

a small bottle of fluid is inexpensive - discard after expiry period if not used for occasional top ups. 

Depends where you buy from how expense or cheap the stuff is and as I put before -  Amsoil have - "In ideal conditions, an unopened bottle of brake fluid lasts about two years.  It’s best to use a new bottle of brake fluid every time."

 

All ways about this are imperfect, you just pick the one you prefer.

 

 

On 12/01/2023 at 16:09, KenONeill said:

Well, I think it's another cash cow for the main stealers. All you need is a hygrometer check at 2 years, then annually to a change.

This works yes, BUT only if you are checking the fluid for water contamination at the reservoir AND at the calipers!

Most places dunk the reservoir and call it a day. 

What a strange debate this is turning into, my own thought's about any safety features is preventing accidents is best.

 

Who wants to anchor up hard to find the pedal hits the floor, and you plough into something.

 

Same with tyres, why wait for 1.6mm of tread to find out.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

16 minutes ago, toot said:

Fluids, coolants, lubricants of all sorts can get as fancy and high tech as they need to be but that costs.

Sometimes keeping consumables cheap makes sense and change them with regularity.

That motor industry thinking that it must be more complex and expensive.  If changes had been considered a long time back then the solution might have been more high, or perhaps more low tech, and it might have been way more developed by now or it might not have needed to be developed.

 

You've hit the nail on the head - consumables - the whole point of the motor trade, perhaps you could use something less consumable and yes have consumables means the opportunity of more labour charges, win, win, win for (the motor) trade.

 

For the record I go with changes every two years, this might be too late or according to some way, way, to soon.  I've used two different testers that two different people own in one reservoir just to see and they gave different results of lights/percentages, both had the fluid as OK to use but one less so than the other, which to believe, if either (no I didn't test the testers). 🙂

 

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

Yes I think it needs ideas from outside of the motor industry with more original thoughts and without looking for whatever is dirt cheap to use and already tied in with commercially mutually beneficial existing arrangements.  Sorry but you'll never convince me that the motor trade has made much effort to make changes

See this and raise Citroen Hydrodynamic, and DOT 5 brake fluid.

6 hours ago, ApertureS said:

This works yes, BUT only if you are checking the fluid for water contamination at the reservoir AND at the calipers!

Now explain how you get a variable level of water contamination through the circuit, and in particular how you get a higher level at the slave cylinders than in the reservoir. For bonus points, convince me that you change all the slave cylinder seals every time you change the brake fluid.

The reservoir is likely to have the higher concentration of H20 contamination as its the only part vented to atmosphere, which gets opened regularly in some cases to atmosphere and which can have rain running over the top of it, my year 1 production Ford Galaxy filled up with water through a design fault which found its way to the front brake calipers and the clutch slave cylinder killing the latter.

 

So in those terms, as water is more dense than brake fluid it does make sense to test a sample from the lowest part of the system.

 

Back in planet reality (my world) where testing is done for my own benefit and not to extort money from naive pigeons my MK1 Octavia went to the scrapyard after 18 years and 325000 miles with the original brake fluid, it was regularly tested both by my tester and also the one at the Lycée pro during our open Téléthon fund raising days (the cars of the parents and visitors go through a series of checking stations manned personned by the students) this tester like all the workshop equipment is calibrated by an outside company every 12 months, it had never disagreed with my Chinese one and the fluid on the Octavia was 99% as good as the day it left the factory after 18 years and 355K miles.

 

Tthats £630 of unnecessary fluid changes that probably would not always be done correctly, I can guarantee the bleed nipples would all have been lost by then and that several times there would have been a spongy pedal, also most times a report of brake discs and pads 75% worn, my chaufeur pal who sold me the Octavia had that on a main dealer service and he had changed the pads himself the night before driving it the 3 miles for service 🥴

10 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Now explain how you get a variable level of water contamination through the circuit, and in particular how you get a higher level at the slave cylinders than in the reservoir. For bonus points, convince me that you change all the slave cylinder seals every time you change the brake fluid.

The caliper end of the circuit is in a much harsher environment subject to higher temperatures and the fluid in this area doesn’t exactly cycle.

Coupled with the fact that oil floats on water then the water if in high enough concentrations will sink to the lowest points which is the calipers - in theory (yes brake fluid absorbs water but it will still sit at the lowest point).

also a chance of split seals, hoses or couplings allowing for ingress.

 

I never said you *will* get a higher level of contamination at the caliper, but there are small chances in a small number of situations.

 

If you’re not going to stick to the time interval, and instead do it on fluid degradation (which is perfectly fine) then why not be extra safe about it?

 

when did I mention slave cylinder seals being replaced with a fluid change? 🤨