scouring noise from the disks?

[rcd]

My 2015 Octavia has suddenly started having this noise that appears to come from the disks, like something is scraping.  It follows the speed, but doesn't seem to change much by applying brakes.  I know the brake pads are low and was planning to change them anyway, I'm just a little concerned if the noise is related to this, or something worse, like for example wheel bearings.  Anyone experience with this?

[Ootohere]

I am a little concerned as well for you are other road users so if you can not inspect your brakes have someone that can do it and sooner than later.  Looking at the pads, but the rear of the discs as well as what can be seen from through the wheels.  

[rcd]

44 minutes ago, toot said:

I am a little concerned as well for you are other road users so if you can not inspect your brakes have someone that can do it and sooner than later.  Looking at the pads, but the rear of the discs as well as what can be seen from through the wheels.  

 

Sorry to hear about your bad day. 

 

What makes you think I didn't have a look at the pads?  Try reading my post again  

[J.R.]

The fact that one has now gone metal to metal and will be destroying the disc, probably the inner pad.

 

Toot has given good advice, you should heed it and not become adversary.

 

The noise could equally be the tin foil backplate having rusted and fractured at the mounting points, that corresponds more with your description, again it needs inspecting with the wheel removed not visually through the wheel.

Edited 9 March, 2023 by J.R.

[rcd]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

The fact that one has now gone metal to metal and will be destroying the disc, probably the inner pad.

 

Toot has given good advice, you should heed it and not become adversary.

 

The noise could equally be the tin foil backplate having rusted and fractured at the mounting points, that corresponds more with your description, again it needs inspecting with the wheel removed not visually through the wheel.

 

See, that was a good and useful reply.  Thank you.  

 

Incidentally the car passed MOT two weeks ago, and I am going for service tomorrow, but that's really beside the point. I was asking a serious and polite question and didn't need a rude, condecending reply.

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, rcd said:

My 2015 Octavia has suddenly started having this noise that appears to come from the disks, like something is scraping.  It follows the speed, but doesn't seem to change much by applying brakes.  I know the brake pads are low and was planning to change them anyway

I'd say at least one of the pads has gone through to the backplate. Do not drive the car again until you've changed them.

 

Incidentally, any MOT inspection of brakes other than an efficiency test will be an assembled visual inspection only. As for what JR said, the dust shields are not part of the MoT anyway.

[Gaz]

Odd if potentially low brake pads didn't get a mention at the MOT.  My local MOT station is quite hot on it, and the main dealers are shameless in upselling new pads/discs at every opportunity.

 

Could you have something trapped (a small stone?) that's causing the squeal? Or is it possibly a low pad wear squeal spring doing its job?

 

An inspection and photos would be an interesting addition to this thread.  As others have suggested, I'd be looking at the inboard side closely, once you've got the wheels off.

 

Gaz

[rcd]

46 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I'd say at least one of the pads has gone through to the backplate. Do not drive the car again until you've changed them.

 

Incidentally, any MOT inspection of brakes other than an efficiency test will be an assembled visual inspection only. As for what JR said, the dust shields are not part of the MoT anyway.

 

From what I can see through the wheel spokes the brakepads are low but still good. I have no way of seeing the back side - I'm not a mechanic and don't have a lift in my back yard.   Obviously I limit the use, but have no option but to drive the car to the garage to get it fixed.  The disks already appear a bit worn so perhaps they needed changing anyway.

 

[nta16]

@rcd I think whilst you never take any risks with brakes - brakes are the number one priority (brakes includes tyres) - the situation might not be as bad as some think - but then again it might be, very difficult to tell from a brief text description.  Lots of detailed, well taken high definition photos and a video with audio for the noise might tell more, or might not.

 

My wife's 2015 Fabia has a slight scraping of pads on discs that I sometimes hear when I'm not being annoyed by all the other strange noises from the engine bay as the computers seem to be doing as they please.  When I changed the front pads and discs I hoped that'd be the end of it but no it returned.  Perhaps it's the slide pins I didn't replace or something else (not backplates).

 

Another thought is perhaps there's some sand/stone type grit caught somewhere and perhaps a sensible high pressure rinse might flush it out, care with the use of wet brakes of course.  (ETA: Gaz beat me to it)

 

Wheel bearings are usually more a constant rumble, hoarsey-roar type sound, sad to think an eight year old car would need them replacing but apparently they can do, like the dampers, springs, engine bits and brakes, so much for 'German engineering'.

 

It may be that you'd want to change the discs as well as the pads, depends on their condition of course. (ETA: as you've noticed)

 

Never put too much faith in an MoT pass (nice though they are to have) do bear in mind an MoT is just a statutory test for the car to meet a minimum standard, taken at one point in time to one trained person's point of view, it doesn't mean the car is as good as it could or should be and the car could potentially fail the same test the next day or even from driving away.

 

I'm sure tomorrow's service with highlight any seen issues. 😄

 

Good luck.

 

Edited 9 March, 2023 by nta16
ETA:

[rcd]

12 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Odd if potentially low brake pads didn't get a mention at the MOT.  My local MOT station is quite hot on it, and the main dealers are shameless in upselling new pads/discs at every opportunity.

 

Could you have something trapped (a small stone?) that's causing the squeal? Or is it possibly a low pad wear squeal spring doing its job?

 

An inspection and photos would be an interesting addition to this thread.  As others have suggested, I'd be looking at the inboard side closely, once you've got the wheels off.

 

Gaz

 

Obviously the dealership asked if they should change the pads at the last service but admittet that with my driving history they would be fine until next service.  My own thought was either, like you suggest, a small stone or something trapped, or, and that was my real concern, failing wheel bearings. Would that not produce such a noise?   The car has done just over 210K km. 

 

Here are pictures from the front, through the spokes - taken after the car was parked overnight, hence the rust marks.  The first two are the front, the last two the rear. Notice the fresh groove near the center....

 

Edited 9 March, 2023 by rcd

[KenONeill]

1 minute ago, rcd said:

Here are pictures from the front, through the spokes - taken after the car was parked overnight, hence the rust marks.

Outer pads are low but still OK. I make no judgement as to the inner pads.

[rcd]

11 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Outer pads are low but still OK. I make no judgement as to the inner pads.

 

That was also what I thought.  The inner pads have exactly same age, so logically they would be similar conditions.   
It's hard to explain a sound in word, but it is exactly as I would expect to hear with something scraping against the disks while driving, including changing pitch following changing speed. 

 

 

Edited 9 March, 2023 by rcd

[Gaz]

2 minutes ago, rcd said:

The inner pads have exactly same age, so logically they would be similar conditions. 

 

Logical yes, but if the calliper is not moving freely on the carrier pins, then the piston in the calliper can produce more force (and therefore wear) on the inboard pads.  Not always the case. or even common, but needs a visual check to confirm.

 

Gaz

[petrolbloke]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

dust shields are not part of the MoT anyway.

 

If they were loose (and could potentially fall off) or contacting the disk I wouldn't be surprised to get at least an advisory for it.

 

OP: did the noise just suddenly start or was anything done to the car just before it started?

 

The discs/pads look OK from the photos, but as Ken said we can't make judgement on the inner pads. All being well they should wear at a similar rate but if the sliders seize up then the inner would wear more. You could try to feel the other side of the discs with your finger (once cold!) to see if there are any obvious ridges.

 

If it's going in for a service tomorrow then worth asking them to do a quick check. With the car in the air it should be a piece of cake to work out which wheel(s) the noise is coming from and whether it's due to the dust shield or pads.

[rcd]

29 minutes ago, Gaz said:

low pad wear squeal spring

 

Is this what I think it is - like a kind of marker to notify the driver of time to change pads?  I was considering this, but not sure if it was a thing ....

[nta16]

18 minutes ago, rcd said:

Notice the fresh groove near the center....

That could be the sound, or one of a contributing sounds.  Might be the photos but the pads look quite a way off the discs for the rears, perhaps slider pins or the calipers, I don't know if or how the handbrake is to the rear brakes.  Has the brake fluid ever been changed.

 

This will be picked up on any visual inspection "free health check" tomorrow so you can leave diagnosis until then, tell them about the noise in case it's also something else as well as or instead of this.

 

[Gaz]

3 minutes ago, rcd said:

 

Is this what I think it is - like a kind of marker to notify the driver of time to change pads?  I was considering this, but not sure if it was a thing ....

 

Sure is:

 

 

Gaz

[rcd]

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

That could be the sound, or one of a contributing sounds.  Might be the photos but the pads look quite a way off the discs for the rears, perhaps slider pins or the calipers, I don't know if or how the handbrake is to the rear brakes.  Has the brake fluid ever been changed.

 

This will be picked up on any visual inspection "free health check" tomorrow so you can leave diagnosis until then, tell them about the noise in case it's also something else as well as or instead of this.

 

 

I thnk it's just poor lighting.  Yes the brake fluid has been changed at the indicated service intervals.

 

 

4 minutes ago, petrolbloke said:

 

If they were loose (and could potentially fall off) or contacting the disk I wouldn't be surprised to get at least an advisory for it.

 

OP: did the noise just suddenly start or was anything done to the car just before it started?

 

The discs/pads look OK from the photos, but as Ken said we can't make judgement on the inner pads. All being well they should wear at a similar rate but if the sliders seize up then the inner would wear more. You could try to feel the other side of the discs with your finger (once cold!) to see if there are any obvious ridges.

 

If it's going in for a service tomorrow then worth asking them to do a quick check. With the car in the air it should be a piece of cake to work out which wheel(s) the noise is coming from and whether it's due to the dust shield or pads.

 

I suddenly noticed the noice while driving, nothing was done to the car prior.  The noise is barely noticable with windows closed, but very obvious with open windows.   I was already planning to change all pads at tomorros service, hopefully that will take care of the noise and maybe give an indication of what it was.

[nta16]

12 minutes ago, rcd said:

Is this what I think it is - like a kind of marker to notify the driver of time to change pads?  I was considering this, but not sure if it was a thing ....

Have a look in your Owner's Manual you might have a warning light for worn brakes.  Obviously hearing and describing noises is different for different people but the old systems at least were I thought (but I've never experienced) a sort of definite screech.  (ETA: by Gaz's post, perhaps they're more subtle now)

 

Not saying in this case but brakes can sometimes get noisy through wear or change of pads and remain so for a while and/or suddenly the noise goes away or doesn't with bad or mismatched pads/disks or other reasons.

 

Edited 9 March, 2023 by nta16
spelling

[rcd]

12 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

Sure is:

 

 

Gaz

 

Aha, I think that probably is the cause of the noise  That would make perfect sense, with the sound pitch changing with varying speed, but not with varying brake pressure applied.

 

Thank you all. I will follow up after the service !

 

 

Edited 9 March, 2023 by rcd

[rcd]

Nobody was right.  The problem was a loose anchorplate on one of the front wheels.   This is the plate that protects the caliper and disc against mud and dirt from the inside. It was rusted through where the bolts were fixing it in place.   This caused it to scrape on the disk.  The brakes were fine. 

Edited 10 March, 2023 by rcd

[inspectorman]

JR seemed to have diagnosed this; "The noise could equally be the tin foil backplate having rusted and fractured at the mounting points, that corresponds more with your description"

[rcd]

12 minutes ago, inspectorman said:

JR seemed to have diagnosed this; "The noise could equally be the tin foil backplate having rusted and fractured at the mounting points, that corresponds more with your description"

 

My bad, you're right.  I must have overseen the edit.

[petrolbloke]

Rusted through on a 2015 car?!

 

My 2002 Octavia still has the original dust shields. Maybe they don't make them like they used to! 😄

[rcd]

43 minutes ago, petrolbloke said:

Rusted through on a 2015 car?!

 

My 2002 Octavia still has the original dust shields. Maybe they don't make them like they used to! 😄

 

IIRC the plate was attached with 3 screws, and the metal had rusted away around two of the screws.   I'm guessing the plates must have been removed and replaced at some point which may have scratched the paint away leaving the metal open for corrosion. Either that, or parhaps yours had some anti rust treatment?