Cooling system problem (AGAIN) in my Felicia

[D.FYLAKTOS]

The sector that has caused me the majority of problems in my Felicia is the Coolant system.

I have repaired or replaced almost everything and one time i had to call the Road Assistance because my car was one click from overheating(the radiator fan was Out).

Since this system is my ''nightmare'' i pay attention every day to the temperature gauge in dashboard plus very often i check the connections, signs of coolant leak etc.

Thursday noon while i was on the road to work i noticed that the needle raised at 100 'C and first signs of ''smoke'' came out from the grille, my first reactions was a ''Not AGAIN", turn the alarm on, moved to the right and when i cam out i saw this:

 

 

 

I was extremely angry not because i would be late at work plus i couldn't imagine the cause of this since i had changed the coolant recently-check the hoses, the clamps, i had a new expansion tank plus new cap etc.

I lift the hood and i saw the main coolant house out plus coolant all around he engine bay, bad odour and my first thought was that the clamp get loosed and i can fix it quickly, i wear my glover and made the first try-failed. Again and again but the same result: Failure.

Every time the coolant hose was ''popped out'' no matter how tight was the clamp, full of agony i turn my flash light and then i discovered the terrible true, the plastic socket for the hose was broken! Yes, broken! 😵

 

 

I put my finger inside the coolant hose and i found the remains, i couldn't believe of what happened and my main question was ''Why?''

 

 

 

Take a look of how it is from a vertical view (photo from a spare parts shop), as you can see it's not something robust (die cast), looks like 2 pieces stuck together.

 

 

 

 

I started to worry, send some photos and an email to my work that i am going to be late, call my Road Assistance and after my mechanic ''make a space to your garage because i am coming".

The guy of the RA came and said ''i can't do anything" and load my Felicia to his truck, i took a taxi to go to work and in my mind was ''How this happened'' and ''how i am going to fix this" because i knew that the price for a new radiator is about 200 euros plus the work from the mechanic plus the parts (new hose, new antifreeze etc) and of course many days without a car.

 

(To be continued...)

[R_Blue]

It was very unfortunate to encounter a problem like this after all the work done.

But, when tightening the clamps around the radiator hoses, I've always thought that something like this could happen. Now I got worried too.

 

Can't you replace the radiator yourself?

(Does the A/C radiator make the work complicated?)

 

and...

Wow... You did it. You have a second set of fog lights!

 

Also I've noticed that you have 6U0823395A missing.

You may have additional rattling noise because of this. Just FYI.

[Breezy_Pete]

What type of hose clip was used on that connection? 

Spring band or worm-screw type? 

Can easily apply too much force with the latter.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

3 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Also I've noticed that you have 6U0823395A missing.

 

Thanks a lot, i will have this in mind for future purchase.

Yes i have a new set, at 6100K with 2 functions, straight beam and strobe effect controlled by a switch on the steering wheel plastic column (i will make a new thread as a project for all these extra switches)

 

3 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Spring band or worm-screw type? 

 

Sad but i have lost the spring band many-many years ago and i am using inox screw clamp.

My theory is: the main hose was old and ''dry'', with all the repairs-coolant changes etc has tightened too many times so all the tension was going to the plastic socket which after 23 years didn't lasted and broke.

Here is the old coolant hose, as you can see from the marks was under lot of tension.

 

 

 

This side was in the plastic socket of the radiator.

 

 

 

The hydraulic oil small plastic tank was removed and the mechanic pushed the new hose as far as he could.

New inox screw type clamp, new coolant added, test for leaks (No), road test some kilometres and no leaks, excess air removed, added some antifreeze to the proper level, another road test and no leaks.

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Yes, old rubber does lose its conformability and make resealing difficult, encouraging overtightening as a 'solution'.

Aftermarket radiators can also have poorly made/finished fittings with misalignment and protruding bits where all should be smooth and round.

 

Wait, if the radiator is 23 years old it's the original, my mistake. Probably I assumed aftermarket and recent because you pictured a new one.

 

Edited 8 April, 2023 by Breezy_Pete

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Here are two photos of what remained from the plastic socket on the radiator's frame.

 

 

 

Thankfully it didn't broke deep inside but lets say at 2/5 so some material remained, checked and it's robust.

 

 

 

The bad thing is that has not the "protrusion" so there is a danger for the hose after some years to start ''slide'' to the outside and inevitably suddenly will come-off and i will have another road tragedy.

I suggested to the mechanic to use some epoxy glue for plastics to the bottom of that remained plastic socket (for extra holding of the hose to that part) and said he didn't agree with that.

[Breezy_Pete]

I like your thinking, would be great to find a fix which can re-use that rad.

Are replacement hoses available? Do you have part number? I can search by VIN if helpful.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

7 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

if the radiator is 23 years old it's the original, my mistake. Probably I assumed aftermarket and recent because you pictured a new one.

 

Yes the radiator is from 1999, it's the original.I posted a new one to show you the point were the damage has been made.

One thought of mine is to remove that original radiator, go to a local plastic parts-specialist that we have hear to make a ''reconstructed" socket or make an insert from aluminium or bronze so the hose will fit to this.

For sure he will use a strong epoxy glue for plastics to hold that insert with the main plastic body of the radiator.

When i say ''insert'' i mean something like this

Is that i good idea or not?

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Are replacement hoses available? Do you have part number?

 

I had a spare hose in my self plus new clamps

The part code for the hose is 6U0121101

 

Is already installed with new clamps plus new coolant, the air removed procedure is done plus a road test for some kilometres but the question remains:

Will that patent last or i had to make a repair or buy a new radiator?

The 3rd solution means at least 200 euros for buying-shipping plus fitting-new coolant etc totally at least 300 euros.

[Breezy_Pete]

Maybe, but I think just some suitable sealant over outside of that plastic tube, after thorough cleaning, a new hose and a spring band clamp would be my approach.

Metal and plastic will have different thermal expansivity, which would make me reluctant to use a metal insert/exsert (think I made up that word), and why sprung clamps are nice as they can accommodate dimension changes with temperature and retain close to constant clamp force.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

This is a photo from today.

 

 

 

The new hose if pushed all the way to the remain of the socket and a new clamp installed, tightened properly although i wanted this clamp few millimetres more to the right.

 

12 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Metal and plastic will have different thermal expansivity, which would make me reluctant to use a metal insert

 

I wonder if i use plastic epoxy putty like this

https://www.chatziathanasiou.gr/en/putty/840-permatex-84330.html

 

to ''build'' the whole area and ''bond the hose and the plastic frame of the radiator would be a good idea? Of course this means that the hose would be extremely difficult to be removed even for a repair.

This is ''one way only'' solution which means there is turning back, if in the future something goes wrong with the hose then the radiator (and the hose) must be replaced.

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Make a prominent mark on the radiator plastic that will allow regular inspection for any axial movement. I think friction will be your friend here and it won't move unless something dramatic happens like overpressure from head gasket failure.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Some months ego my mechanic made a ''pressure test'' and found 2 tiny leaks, tighten the screws but from instinct i went the very next day and a bought a new hose-clamps ''just i case".

I had the new radiator hose-clamps from last year in my shelf and in my mind was that in the next coolant change (before summer vacations trip) i will make the replace but the bad luck overtook me.

 

I learned a lesson from this: Don't overtighten the screws of the clamps if there is no serious reason for this.

The radiator has another 2 hoses below, i will leave them ''as is'' and i will don't touch their clamp's screws.

 

 

 

Here is a yesterday's photo, the engine bay was cleaned this afternoon and i checked for leaks, none was found.

[mikefelicia]

Beware some of these hoses that are made in China are rubbish I had a bottom hose replaced by a garage and it was made in China and did not last long.

[Breezy_Pete]

6U0121101 was discontinued in 2017 sadly, but you might just get lucky with a new old stock genuine one loitering somewhere, unless that's what yours is already?

 

Pity, cos retail price was only 7.70GBP when available, which seems refreshingly good value.

[Thefeliciahacker]

6 hours ago, R_Blue said:

Can't you replace the radiator yourself?

(Does the A/C radiator make the work complicated?)

no the ac rad just sits in front, its easy
GUYS thats the exact reason that I replace cooling system components BEFORE they actually fail, you are lucky it did not turn into a nightmare

Edited 8 April, 2023 by Thefeliciahacker

[D.FYLAKTOS]

58 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

6U0121101 was discontinued in 2017 sadly

 

Still can be found here in Greece.

 

https://kritosparts.gr/part.aspx?expression=6U0121101

 

https://www.getparts.gr/gates-solinas-psygeioy-vag-513382

 

https://onparts.gr/index.php?route=product/search&search=6U0121101

 

1 hour ago, mikefelicia said:

Beware some of these hoses that are made in China are rubbish I had a bottom hose replaced by a garage and it was made in China and did not last long.

 

Shown some signs before the end or suddenly cut off?
 

[Breezy_Pete]

I meant genuine Skoda hose, those all appear to be aftermarket/pattern parts with my non-existent understanding of Greek. 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

13 hours ago, Breezy_Pete said:

I meant genuine Skoda hose

 

It's impossible to find such a part here those days,the latest arrive of Felicia here was April 2000 so after few years the local official Skoda dealer stopped to import parts from Skoda Cz for this model.

 

Even in Cz stores all you can find is like these from China:

https://www.autobyznys.cz/x29272-en/hadice-hrdla-termostatu-favorit-felicia-1.3-cn-6u0121101

 

https://www.autodily-stancl.cz/motor/hadice-a-trubky/hadice-chladice-horni-felicia-13-cn-6u0121101.html

 

or like these:

 

https://autodilycz.cz/nahradni-dily/hadice-chladice-594152/?s=2573526

 

https://www.autokelly.cz/Product/XS-6U0121101/8673579

 

They don't say Genuine Skoda but even if you manage to find an original they don't have Paypal or credit card system but only bank transfer which means: delay plus money commission.

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

I glued temporary the two pieces from the part of the plastic socket which has been cut-off.

As you can see in the photos (front-rear) it's not round but oval shape.

 

 

 

That means ''Overtighten''

 

 

 

is the cause of the problem so keep this in mind for your own coolant hoses, don't to my mistake.

 

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Update: So far so good, no problem after all these months, many times checked and no leaks at all.

Till the next radiator change i will leave it as is, "nothing more permanently than the temporary" as we say here.