Sounds fairly normal to me, our 1.2tsi cars always sounded very rattly when stood outside and the bonnet up.

The deeper knocking sounds more like gearbox input shaft (does it disappear when you depress the cluch?), might be that bottom engine mount. Or perhaps crank big end knocking, though I've never read of that on a 1.2tsi engine.

 

The oil filter part no is correct. But Im puzzled why its black as Im pretty certain the Bosch filter should be silver as its a rebadged Mann OE (VAG) filter.

Might be a counterfeit.

 

https://catalog.mann-filter.com/file/Product/MediaAssets/MFPI097_en_Silver_oil_filters.pdf

 

I'm afraid the only way to check the seal is to remove the filter, check and refit. Might as well change it then.

 

Useful tips

https://www.mpulse.mahle.com/en/article/changing-filters-and-gaskets

 

Edited 25 April, 20233 yr by xman

10 minutes ago, xman said:

Sounds fairly normal to me, our 1.2tsi cars always sounded very rattly when stood outside and the bonnet up.

The deeper knocking sounds more like gearbox input shaft (does it disappear when you depress the cluch?), might be that bottom engine mount. Or perhaps crank big end knocking, though I've never read of that on a 1.2tsi engine.

 

The oil filter part no is correct. But Im puzzled why its black as Im pretty certain the Bosch filter should be silver as its a rebadged Mann OE (VAG) filter.

Might be a counterfeit.

 

https://catalog.mann-filter.com/file/Product/MediaAssets/MFPI097_en_Silver_oil_filters.pdf

 

I'm afraid the only way to check the seal is to remove the filter, check and refit. Might as well change it then.

 

Useful tips

https://www.mpulse.mahle.com/en/article/changing-filters-and-gaskets

 

I might have to see if I can pull it off. Will I not end up ****ing oil everywhere if I do that? The noise stays no matter what I do. Sometimes if I turn the engine off and then turn it back on the knock is really loud until I rev the car. 

If only the one seal is present and you take your time and wait after the initial unscrewing then the oil should drain back to the oilpan, if it has the second seal stuck there then it probably will be messy but better than a wrecked engine.

 

It sounds like I know what I am talking about but have actually only just learned of the anti drain back seal from the Mann video linked to.

 

I have a question for the forum, now I know of this drainback system is it present on all of the inverted VAG oil filters?

 

I am thinking specifically of my Yeti which has the cartridge filter inside the round plastic screw on housing, should I be pausing during its removal? Oil doesnt gush out or overflow but there is a hell of a lot contained within the filter pleats which usually makes a mess of the floor and my rubbish container, if waiting 5 minutes after the initial unscrewing would minimise that I would definitely do it but dont want to waste time for nothing.

Look at the video in my previous post. Put plenty of cloth/paper towel around the oil filter housing. Remove the oil filler cap. Loosen the oil filter by about 2 turns then leave it for about 2 to 3 mins to allow the oil to drain down though the drainage channel as explained in the article I posted above. Then slowly spin the filter off and just watch out for the odd drip.

 

Check the draindown gasket is not left behind (again refer to the Mahle article above). If there's one in there AND another in the old filter it would explain low oil pressure and kocking sounds. If refitting the old filter put that gasket into the oil filter plastic end frame. If the gasket is distorted as they often are when over tightened then you should change the filter for a new one.

Edited 25 April, 20233 yr by xman

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I have a question for the forum, now I know of this drainback system is it present on all of the inverted VAG oil filters?

All top mounted filters will drain down when you remove them, but you have to remember to loosen them off and allow time to drain down before lifting off. In the case of the plastic topped housings with cartridge filters, unscrew until off the threads so the o ring seal is cracked open. Then wait a minute and slowly lift the cap.

Edited 25 April, 20233 yr by xman

1 hour ago, xman said:

Look at the video in my previous post. Put plenty of cloth/paper towel around the oil filter housing. Remove the oil filler cap. Loosen the oil filter by about 2 turns then leave it for about 2 to 3 mins to allow the oil to drain down though the drainage channel as explained in the article I posted above. Then slowly spin the filter off and just watch out for the odd drip.

 

Check the draindown gasket is not left behind (again refer to the Mahle article above). If there's one in there AND another in the old filter it would explain low oil pressure and kocking sounds. If refitting the old filter put that gasket into the oil filter plastic end frame. If the gasket is distorted as they often are when over tightened then you should change the filter for a new one.

Thanks man, good info. No way I'm getting that off though. Looks like I'll have to get an oil filter removal tool for it.

So... The oil filter was fitted correctly. I've emailed the VW specialist near me and I am waiting for them to get back to me.

So, the VW specialist have said it's bottom end noise. So it's game over man... Game over.

@Dazl1212When was your car built? 

Was the timing chain / tensioner replaced because it was getting the later upgrade from the earlier ones, 2010/11 ?

 

EDIT.

I see from the video it is a 2011.

(So they actually had Black Oil Filters from the factory /OME,  as before VW /SEAT, Skoda, Audi went to the silver ones.)

 

The 1.2 & 1.4 TSI Twinchargers Oil filters were the black ones from 2010 until VW Group went to the Silver ones.

(I kept using Black Mahle filters with Twinchrgers.  £3.45)

 

As to the 1.2 TSI's.  In 2012 there were threads / posts here when the Oil Capacity changed with the 1.2 TSI's snd there were also ones with the wrong oil filter supplied / fited.

I do not mean black or silver, actually the wrong part number.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/442488-oil-filter-replacement-problem

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462997-12-tsi-oil-filter

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/488571-12-tsi-larger-filter

 

Then we have the threads / posts on over tightened Oil filters and the ones were the old seal was forgotten and there were 2 on. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/388209-12-tsi-red-oil-light

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/450278-oil-warning-light-intimitent

 

 

 

Edited 1 May, 20233 yr by toot

14 hours ago, Dazl1212 said:

So, the VW specialist have said it's bottom end noise. So it's game over man... Game over.

 

How could they tell from just an email?

 

On 26/04/2023 at 14:12, Dazl1212 said:

So... The oil filter was fitted correctly. I've emailed the VW specialist near me and I am waiting for them to get back to me.

 

I get that they're not interested in fixing your car but why not just say so!

12 hours ago, toot said:

@Dazl1212When was your car built? 

Was the timing chain / tensioner replaced because it was getting the later upgrade from the earlier ones, 2010/11 ?

 

EDIT.

I see from the video it is a 2011.

(So they actually had Black Oil Filters from the factory /OME,  as before VW /SEAT, Skoda, Audi went to the silver ones.)

 

The 1.2 & 1.4 TSI Twinchargers Oil filters were the black ones from 2010 until VW Group went to the Silver ones.

(I kept using Black Mahle filters with Twinchrgers.  £3.45)

 

As to the 1.2 TSI's.  In 2012 there were threads / posts here when the Oil Capacity changed with the 1.2 TSI's snd there were also ones with the wrong oil filter supplied / fited.

I do not mean black or silver, actually the wrong part number.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/442488-oil-filter-replacement-problem

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462997-12-tsi-oil-filter

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/488571-12-tsi-larger-filter

 

Then we have the threads / posts on over tightened Oil filters and the ones were the old seal was forgotten and there were 2 on. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/388209-12-tsi-red-oil-light

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/450278-oil-warning-light-intimitent

 

 

 

Thanks man, I'll have to check this out myself as maybe, they just didn't remember correctly?

6 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

How could they tell from just an email?

 

 

I get that they're not interested in fixing your car but why not just say so!

I took it in for them to look. They literally listened with the bonnet up and said "it's the little end" and "it wouldn't be a cheap fix." And that was it.

48 minutes ago, Dazl1212 said:

I took it in for them to look. They literally listened with the bonnet up and said "it's the little end" and "it wouldn't be a cheap fix." And that was it.

 

It doesn't sound anything like a bottom end noise, get the biggest screwdriver you have, put the tip against the cambox and your ear to the handle, then listen in different places to see if the sound gets louder or quieter until you've narrowed down the location.

11 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

It doesn't sound anything like a bottom end noise, get the biggest screwdriver you have, put the tip against the cambox and your ear to the handle, then listen in different places to see if the sound gets louder or quieter until you've narrowed down the location.

I didn't realise I could do anything like this. So this is very useful for me. Thank you.

1 hour ago, Dazl1212 said:

I didn't realise I could do anything like this. So this is very useful for me. Thank you.

 

I'm afraid you'll have to do it because the bloody garage couldn't be bothered.

10 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I'm afraid you'll have to do it because the bloody garage couldn't be bothered.

Third garage now who has just looked at it and said that it's bad. 

Not sure how a mechanic can say definitely little end noise. Little end being the piston/conrod connection.

 

Before scrapping, attempting a stripdown, or fitting a recon engine you should try to establish if the engine is working at the correct oil pressue and flow. If oil pressure is low you will get big end knocking.

 

So, does the red oil warning light (pressure) light up when ignition is first turned on before starting the engine. Does the light go out promptly when the engine has started? During the initial start do you get a rattle/machine gun sound for a short while? (Loose camchain, tensioner not extended due to low pressure). May be extended if pressure is constantly too low.

 

For the sake of around £50 or so and 15 mins DIY I would buy a genuine Filter from a reputable source (not EBay or Amazon) e.g.

 

Mann W712/94

VAG 03C 115 561 H

Mahle OC 593/3

 

Change the oil and filter (3.6 - 3.9 litres vw spec 504.00 or 502.01 oil required)

 

To eliminate possibility of blocked/faulty/counterfeit chinese filter  (counterfeits are more common than most people realise)

 

 

TBH those phone videos are pretty useless for diagnosing (as most phone videos tend to be).

 

They do sound more or less like a 1.2Tsi sounds like. In my experience (2 cars) they are very tappetty engines with the bonnet up. And an annoying louder knock in my experience comes from the high pressure fuel pump which is located on the rear of the camcover, large hex bolt, stainless pipes in/out.

 

Try as @sepulchrave suggests with large screwdriver/ear.

 

Even still could be camchain slapping, who changed the chain and did they do the complete kit? Tensioner, chain, 2 guides, top and bottom sprockets and new crankshaft seal.

Ok, so @sepulchrave I have done the screwdriver thing after looking at a quick tutorial. I can't seem to pin the noise down. Whether this is because the fuel pump is so noisy or not I'm not sure. But, it doesn't seem to be coming from near the chain.

 

@xman I'm going to order the bits today and change it all. I'll look at euro car parts and gsf. Hopefully that cures it. I'm not sure why garages are fobbing me off. Maybe they think I'm being a bit paranoid or maybe they think I'm an idiot?

 

There doesn't seem to be an oil warning light as I think, from what I've seen, it comes up on the computer display where the time etc is. 

 

The chain was done before I bought the car, about 20k miles ago. I'll dig out the receipt.

Edited 2 May, 20233 yr by Dazl1212

Just now, Dazl1212 said:

Ok, so @sepulchrave I have done the screwdriver thing after looking at a quick tutorial. I can't seem to pin the noise down. Whether this is because the fuel pump is so noisy or not I'm not sure. But, it doesn't seem to be coming from near the chain.

 

@xman I'm going to order the bits today and change it all. I'll look at euro car parts and gsf. Hopefully that cures it. I'm not sure why garages are fobbing me off. Maybe they think I'm being a bit paranoid or maybe they think I'm an idiot?

 

I think they're fobbing you off precisely because you're not an idiot.

 

Most mechanics are inherently lazy, it's in their nature to expect to be paid whether they fix anything or not, they don't fancy anything that sounds like a big job because most of them aren't any good.

Just found the recept it was done at a VAG specialist. It says full kit but not much more than that. 

15 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I think they're fobbing you off precisely because you're not an idiot.

 

Most mechanics are inherently lazy, it's in their nature to expect to be paid whether they fix anything or not, they don't fancy anything that sounds like a big job because most of them aren't any good.

Thanks for that. I did wonder if I came across as one of those people I know from tech, where they know just enough to be a pain in the arse but not enough to fix the problems themselves 🤪

2 hours ago, Dazl1212 said:

There doesn't seem to be an oil warning light as I think, from what I've seen, it comes up on the computer display where the time etc is. 

You can check by looking at your 'Owner's Manual', if you don't have the printed paper version you can download some pdf (free) copies from SEAT (same as you can from Skoda).  The SEAT site only shows 2011 Leon as 5D, I've no idea if this is correct for your model, or Copas generally, but here's the link anyway. -https://www.seat.co.uk/owners/your-seat/manuals-offline 

 

With the appropriate 'Owner's Manual' by reading it and referring to it you can sometimes know more about your model than many long term owners, and some at garages.

 

Your model might be different - but the online 2011 (07/1) 5D manual, page 77, shows the engine oil pressure warning lights as just to the left of centre of the speedo (needle) (item 17). - 

 

 

 

From page 78. -

 

 

 

Page 87 gives details of the various warnings and what they mean. -

 

 

Edited 2 May, 20233 yr by nta16

53 minutes ago, nta16 said:

You can check by looking at your 'Owner's Manual', if you don't have the printed paper version you can download some pdf (free) copies from SEAT (same as you can from Skoda).  The SEAT site only shows 2011 Leon as 5D, I've no idea if this is correct for your model, or Copas generally, but here's the link anyway. -https://www.seat.co.uk/owners/your-seat/manuals-offline 

 

With the appropriate 'Owner's Manual' by reading it and referring to it you can sometimes know more about your model than many long term owners, and some at garages.

 

Your model might be different - but the online 2011 (07/1) 5D manual, page 77, shows the engine oil pressure warning lights as just to the left of centre of the speedo (needle) (item 17). - 

 

 

 

From page 78. -

 

 

 

Page 87 gives details of the various warnings and what they mean. -

 

 

Thanks for this, I'll have to check my manual in the morning. The place the lights are in looks different to mine. I think they may have updated some of the range in 2011 as the Haynes manuals don't cover my engine, it's in a later edition.

 

That said, it'll clear that particular concern up when I check tomorrow as I find it odd that I can't find it anywhere when I turn on the ignition.

My model does not have an oil pressure light on the speedo/rev counter. I has a central Multi Function Display and this indicates low oil pressure if necessary. The manual reads: The warning light on vehicles fitted with information display does not come on after switching the ignition on, but only if a fault exists or the engine oil level is too low.

Edited 2 May, 20233 yr by Jocko
Spacing.