@Graham Butcher  I am mocking you and others that continually go on about a known known. 

 

The experts and non experts that seem to think if you keep saying something is unsafe is making the slightest difference. 

 

Jaguar EV of a certain age are being scrapped and other others will be, and people will look for compensation and still while this goes on the risks are what they are. 

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

However it cannot be denied that the hazards of EVs are far more significant if its fuel ie, battery become involved then is true for ICE vehicles. 

Giant IF.

 

But more often than not, the fire would not involve the battery simply because it is more rugged than plastic liquid fuel tank.

 

 

21 hours ago, Ootohere said:

For more than a couple of decades we have cars that anyone double locked in can not even get out of the car without breaking a window or sunroof.

Or anyone in to get them. 

 

Groundhog day here again. 

Does nobody read the threads they pop in and out of, and use the brains they were born with? 

"Anyone double-locked in" is doing a lot of heavy-lifting there, @Ootohere.

I think you're scrabbling around trying to find a problem for a solution.

I cannot recall ever being double-locked in a car, or double-locking someone in a car, but I realise I may be unusual.

When was the last time you found yourself double-locked in a car, or double-locked someone in a car?

What were the circumstances that led to this?

@EnterName  Heavy lifting?     It is just people turning way from the car and locking it with animals or a passenger and just not thinking. 

Maybe the windows down a bit, maybe not.

 

Who gives a monkeys what you have ever done unless you have been locked in an EV as it was driven into a flood or went on fire, or was locked by a driver in error, 

or even as a joke. 

 

I have never been locked in a car but i did lock someone in once and went into the hotel and never heard the car alarm going off.

They were very angry.

Not as angry as the next time i did it on purpose. 

Edited 9 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

@EnterName

 

 

Nice you are here for the banter and trying to wind up people, but really get a grip.

 

Edited 9 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

9 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I have never been locked in a car but i did lock someone in once and went into the hotel and never heard the car alarm going off.

This surprises me.

Were you drunk?

8 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@EnterName

 

 

Nice you are here for the banter and trying to wind up people, but really get a grip.

 

Banter.

You keep using this word. What do you mean by it?

Google it. 

'Just here for the banter'.     

 

 

 

Edited 9 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

33 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Google it. 

'Just here for the banter'.     

 

 

 

I don't want the Google definition of "banter". I'm curious to know what you mean by it, seeing as you use the word so frequently.

So, what does it mean when you use the word?

@EnterNameIt means in your case that really the subject is of little consequence to you personally, and it is really just messing about trying to get a rise out of people.

Do you need me to explain what Getting a rise out of people means? 

The thing that has got so many concerned about the mechanical door handles v electrical operated on EV's is that there are many more chances of getting locked inside an EV then there is an ICE with so many designers opting to show off their skills and how modern and stylish they are by making things as labour free as possible. Touch screen controls and or push buttons etc, all of which fail in the event of failure of the 12v electrics, be it due to fuse failure, electronic unit failure, bad connection or fire damage etc.

 

Yes some EVs do also have emergency mechanical handles and linkages but it also true to say that some don't bother fitting such things, especially for rear passengers, others do but you have to physically remove the door card to access it. How many people when they get into a car actually learn about where such things are located?

 

Anyway, even if you are fully familiar with the car, assuming that the car has the option of both types as standard fitment, people being people will normally only learn the one way of opening the door and in an emergency muscle memory takes over and they will just do what they always do without even thinking about it and that could be fatal if they have always gone for electrical release. If that person happens to be in the rear of certain cars, then they never got an option, it was always going to be electrical.

 

Yes, it is still perfectly capable of being trapped in a car following an accident, I was in position years ago when I was driving a hired Ford Sierra which got shunted into a hedgerow and the rear passenger doors were pushed over front doors preventing them from opening, the only exit was via a broken window in the drivers door.

Drivers of Potential Death Traps be them ICE or BEV should check how things are with their cars and make sure that they or passengers can escape that vehicle is electrics fail and even out of the back doors from within even if the Child Locks are on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 February, 20251 yr by Ootohere

14 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Drivers of Potential Death Traps be them ICE or BEV should check how things are with their cars and make sure that they or passengers can escape that vehicle is electrics fail and even out of the back doors from within even if the Child Locks are on. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all Tesla's have that in the rear door and there are videos about it on line and maybe on here as well, but honestly, who is going to have the presence of mind and or even the time to do that in the rear or have the required torch and tools??

 

Even the front door, I suggest that only the driver/owner if they have even bothered to read the manual and unless they do use that manual system most of the time, when the chips are down, that will not be remembered.

 

If I was in the back then there is no way that I could and indeed many other people could clamber into the front, or indeed even get into the drivers seat from the passenger side if they had to because of the centre consul would prevent that happening for many people. 

Not a difficult engineering challenge for when the electricity fails the door locks become unlocked. Many places where this is the situation, nut just Die Hard for the magnetic seals as the final vault security measure.

 

More worried about electric windows on all cars when one accidental drives off the quayside.  Windows with hand winders are better so one can gradually let the water in and one the door at the last second to swim to the surface.

 

@Graham Butcher   People are not going to generally are they. 

 

When the Chips are down, Chip Pan fires are common. 

EV Fires and Car Ferry fires are not. 

 

There is an issue.  People do not RTFM.     

There is an issue, as well many people can not get in the front from the rear.   Some can not even get out of their car from the front when they are driving into a flood.

12v electrical systems work when submerged, at least initially so headlights (important for rescuers) and electric window motors all will work.

 

HOWEVER! that was the case with traditional circuitry with switches and relays, now everything goes through the Body Control Module or whatever its called on the vehicle concerned, they seem to fry with a few drips of water or condensation so I doubt the electric windows or even the door locks (if in auto-lock mode) would work.

 

Yes the door locks could "fail safe" ie unlock when power removed but to fulfill their primary purpose - security, door locks are always fail secure.

@J.R.

Well they do when they do, and do not when they dont.

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not all Tesla's have that in the rear door

Every. Single. Tesla have the same rear door manual release mechanism.

 

This is going to be another case of please provide your sources.

By way of contrast, here are 3 ICE car fires, within 2 minutes of the fire engines arriving they had the fires fully extinguished and no rivers of burning fuel seen anywhere and extremely little water used in the process. 

 

 

 

 

It'll probably be the same with EV fire if the burning materials were the same.

It seems that EPA was a bit premature about declaring the Moss Landing BESS fire clear of any negative health issues.

 

 

He should get to Gazza and see what deaths and damage has been done by weapons supplied by the USA and UK. 

22 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

He should get to Gazza and see what deaths and damage has been done by weapons supplied by the USA and UK. 

Agreed, and what about all the other warzones and the nuclear weapons that are stock piled around the globe?

Edited 16 February, 20251 yr by Graham Butcher

The President of the USA and his Bestie could just ban all Giga Factories and Battery Manufacturing & Storage and transportation of batteries.

Get back to horses and Iron Horses and 'How the West was won'. 

& Stop the extraction of Oil from the Oil Sands using solvents.

Renault's trying to do with EV battery fire safety what Volvo did with seatbelts | Top Gear

 

Renault's "Fireman access" port for their batteries, now free patent. It allows quickly flood the battery to combat or prevent thermal runaway.