Skoda Felicia Understeer

[Thefeliciahacker]

Today once more the Felicia proved it's not a sports car nor will it ever be,
See this corner coming up, I was going downhill second gear engaged no more than 20kmh more like (15ish).
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2349123,21.7663781,3a,75y,184.51h,72.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6l5h9Dn4HJ_z69MBTGDLsw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D6l5h9Dn4HJ_z69MBTGDLsw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D33.378815%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Slight drizzle, turned the wheel (almost) full lock to the right and the vehicle simply went around 50cm over the double white.
Front left tire was scrubbing big time.

Edited 8 February by Thefeliciahacker

[D.FYLAKTOS]

You put higher tyre profile (Skoda never suggest that) probably with higher psi for "comfort".

You have normal suspension, not strut brace and no antirolling bar.

Your car and your skills are not for turns but for Highways only.

Don't drive in roads like this and don't take passengers with you.

 

Before you born in 1995 the 4T magazine made a road test in Felicia, you know where? In my place, in our Mountain Roads and explained the car's behaviour in turns, the article had some photos with comments about inclination-understeer etc.

I bought that edition and i read-ask about Felicia before i buy it.

 

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

You put higher tyre profile (Skoda never suggest that) probably with higher psi for "comfort"

Higher profile and LOWER pressure, but of a much newer design and higher quality premium tyre

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

You have normal suspension, not strut brace and no antirolling bar.

what does strut brace (which I do have) has to do with understeer at such low dynamic chassis loading, arbs will cause more understeer as they reduce mechanical grip on the fitted axle

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Your car and your skills are not for turns but for Highways only.

no skills used here, just wanted to turn right and therefore just turned the steering wheel to the right

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Before you born in 1995 the 4T magazine made a road test in Felicia, you know where? In my place, in our Mountain Roads and explained the car's behaviour in turns, the article had some photos with comments about inclination-understeer etc.

yeah and it was a HOT MESS hahaha

[D.FYLAKTOS]

I don't blame you, as you can see your driving style and your stock car are not for curbs and you saw this practically.

This incident was a lesson, next time be more cautious in those U turns, imagine if another car was coming and you were understeer a lot beyond the white line what could happen !

 

Same for me: I don't have ABS (thus the sport style steering wheel) so in wet i am double cautious because i know that in emergency brake i would have a problem.

[nta16]

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Slight drizzle, turned the wheel (almost) full lock to the right and the vehicle simply went around 50cm over the double white.

Sounds like you made a classic mistake(s), we have all done it, see this article. -

"Once you’ve realized that you are in an understeer situation, calmly return the steering wheel to straight. If you are in a corner, turn into the direction you are skidding slightly. This will align the wheels with the direction the vehicle is moving, allowing the tires to start turning again to create grip." -

https://www.wikihow.com/Correct-Understeer-During-Cornering

 

ETA: ABS is for braking and steering, if you don't need to brake unnecessarily you don't need the ABS or need it.

 

Edited 8 February by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Since the stance of the body does not help at that time (where a little panic occurs), a small inclination of the head and the elbows one click towards the ribs drag along the hands and the steering wheel can make that click toward the inside of the turn.

It goes without saying that the driver releases calmly his foot from the gas pedal.

An old trick is to don't look straight at that time but to the inside of the turn, this helps the body to move easier.

 

I wonder if the @Thefeliciahacker car has that problem in that turn what's going to happen in S turns when the weight transers from one side to the other and quickly?

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Sounds like you made a classic mistake(s), we have all done it, see this article. -

In fact I didn't keep turning but rather when I reached the the required lock for the turn (almost full) it happened. That's why I'm confused it happened maybe 1 or 2 meters after I had reach the amount of turning and at that point I was not adding more

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

problem in that turn what's going to happen in S turns when the weight transers from one side to the other and quickly?

To me it felt like the front left was overloaded 

[nta16]

38 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

when I reached the the required lock for the turn (almost full)

Was that correct or just a bit too much - I don't know I wasn't there or driving (not that I am a good driver).

 

39 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

it happened maybe 1 or 2 meters after I had reach the amount of turning and at that point I was not adding more

Was that amount of turn already too much and the understeer happening before you noticed it - I don't know I wasn't there or driving (not that I am a good driver).

 

You say yourself you don't drive the car at anywhere near it's limit so why you know when you are (regardless of actual speed or where needle dials point) too fast has no real lower speed limit, other than zero perhaps, all depends on the various circumstances - I don't know you or car or your driving experience or abilities and I repeat I am not a good driver.  (looks like) Down hill very sharp turn  unless going very slow indeed the car won't be at level (not ground level) balance, perhaps a clash of engineering theory expectations and what happens with real world variances.

 

If you can say for certain that a trained and experienced driver would meet the same result if they had been driving at that time taking your car round that sharp turn, then yes it is the car that can be found lacking in this instant.

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Was that correct or just a bit too much - I don't know I wasn't there or driving (not that I am a good driver).

I am a **** poor driver but I was going slower than 20kmh so it shouldnt matter, also I tried it again very slowly and I needed exactly 1+1/2 turns to completely follow the curve

[Thefeliciahacker]

8 minutes ago, nta16 said:

not that I am a good driver

neither am I, thats the most aggresive driving I can do 

Edited 8 February by Thefeliciahacker

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 minute ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

aggresive driving I can do 

and surely dont know how to control understeer maybe not even deliberetaly induce it just for fun

[nta16]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

but I was going slower than 20kmh so it shouldnt matter

It does if below 20kmh is required, plus do you know how accurate your speedo is at 20kmh (errors are not necessarily linear across the range) I don't expect it'll be much but some old cable driven speedos have wobbly needles and speedo had/have inaccuracy from the factory anyway..  Looking at the speedo is a distraction in itself and eyes and attention off road, car and handling time.

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

also I tried it again very slowly and I needed exactly 1+1/2 turns to completely follow the curve

You are not doing the same in the same various circumstances so you can expect different results.

 

Sorry, it might be the perspective of the first video rather than the real experience in the car but I didn't seen anything aggressive.  Thumbs hooked over steering wheel spokes and right hand off the steering wheel but not on the gear lever with too much lingering, I thought not anything aggressive with turning - but I'm not a good driver so could be wrong.

 

The car in front cut you up, not sure about your indication for turning off, and you crossed the solid white line on the right far too early and started the exist lane earlier than road marking.  I've no real idea of speed other than you might have made a 6 to 4 gear change, doubt 4 to 2.  If that was a 'Give Way' at the end you didn't look over your shoulder just glanced at the door mirror.  But all seemed well within the car and your capabilities.

 

Second video, again it might be the video perspective and that I'm used to rhd car driving on the LHS of the road but I didn't see anything that aggressive, and again I didn't like the right hand lingering on and around the gear stick and the position of the hand on the steering wheel (particularly if you were on a public road) but I'm not a drifter and much more used to RWD cars and (slight) power or unintentional (a couple of times, very) oversteer.

 

My wife had a car which could be provoked into crazy understeer at very mild speeds (on a private road, not that there is such a thing in the UK if the general public are allowed on it).

 

If you want to you could perhaps learn power understeer (and and power oversteer) with courses off of the public roads, personally I'd not recommend using your own car for this as the basic principals are the same on a similar car of different make and model.  Or better still perhaps advanced and smooth road driving course.

 

As I have put before I have been out as a passenger on public roads in a a few powerful cars being driven by professional tack instructors and professional magazine test drivers and the things that are most noticeable is how smooth and relaxed they drive and handle the car, it actual makes it feel as if you are going slower than you actually are (always obeying the road speed limits).

 

The one time I went out on a classic car track driving experience day (in an racer E-tpye, Mk2 Jaggg, and another I can't recall at the moment) one of the instructors with me told me off for going too slow.  Whoever was driving it looked like the car was going in reverse when a Junior single-seater came by and cut in front for the track line.

 

Best for me was the going out in a two-seater fully open track special, as it was raining quite hard they said they would have to ask the driver if he was willing to go out luckily he was.  He said my seat would be very wet but I explained I was used to driving reasonably powerful fully open cars on the road and getting wet sometimes. The non-drivers seat was wet, it soaked my trousers for me as soon as I sat in and the rest of me was soaked by the time the harness was on and checked.  Big puddle on the way out of paddock, car aquaplaned over that, very wet on track entry road and more wheel spinning, then up to speed on the track was great, very settled with just a few twitches from the car perhaps braking or down-changes, I think the driver was putting in a bit more for me based on what I had told him.  I'm sure it wouldn't have been as much fun in the dry, or lighter rain.

 

Edited 8 February by nta16
spelling

[Thefeliciahacker]

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

Sorry, it might be the perspective of the first video rather than the real experience in the car but I didn't seen anything aggressive.  Thumbs hooked over steering wheel spokes and right hand off the steering wheel but not on the gear lever with too much lingering, I thought not anything aggressive with turning - but I'm not a good driver so could be wrong

You mean I didn't shift fast, in fact I didn't want to shift faster that that... Ofcourse my thumbs will be over the spokes I'm not off roading, it's 0.45g if you rear the description im not willing to push more than that. 

 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

not sure about your indication for turning off

I did the brera has a 3 burst function by touching the stock 

 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

white line on the right far too early and started the exist lane earlier than road marking.

Indeed that's the 500s fault not mine. 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

I've no real idea of speed other than you might have made a 6 to 4 gear change,

120 slow down to 100 shift to 4th then set the car up turn at 80

 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

Second video, again it might be the video perspective and that I'm used to rhd car driving on the LHS of the road but I didn't see anything that aggressive, and again I didn't like the right hand lingering on and around the gear stick and the position of the hand on the steering wheel (particularly if you were on a public

Sure not ideal hand positioning and too much time one handed but the left hand angle as you saw was ideal for removing steering lock smoothly and swiftly, if I needed to ad I wouldn't be able to, but I estimated I wouldn't need more lock, BTW the roundabout is slick like glass therefore really easy to brake traction. 

[Thefeliciahacker]

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

If that was a 'Give Way' at the end you didn't look over your shoulder just glanced at the door mirror

Correct you are very attentive in fact it doesn't really matter since the 2 exits lead to 2 different lanes no I wouldn't need to yeild to anyone, and if you watch closely I come from above the other road exit level so I have visual if anyone is coming 

[Papez]

15 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Today once more the Felicia proved it's not a sports car nor will it ever be,
See this corner coming up, I was going downhill second gear engaged no more than 20kmh more like (15ish).

 

Interestingly, my Felicia Estate would probably oversteer in these conditions. It happened numerous times when I was coasting diwnhill. I never got into understeer unless I pushed the gas mid-corner. Guess that's what heavier rear and stiffer rear springs do.

Edited 9 February by Papez

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, Papez said:

I was coasting diwnhill

coasting you mean neutral or engine braking, my felly except if provoked will never oversteer

[D.FYLAKTOS]

11 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

neither am I, thats the most aggresive driving I can do 

 

What? Only? 😵

 

The weight distribution in Felicia is 62% front and 38% rear, the U turns is a ''piece of cake'' for that car (especially if it's modified) due to slight oversteer.

What's your air pressure front-rear?

[Thefeliciahacker]

56 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

What? Only?

yes 50% of the vehicle's capacity

56 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The weight distribution in Felicia is 62% front and 38% rear, the U turns is a ''piece of cake'' for that car (especially if it's modified) due to slight oversteer.

What's your air pressure front-rear?

please explain the mechanism that caused my felicia to understeer 
my air pressure is 26psi F / 26psi R

[D.FYLAKTOS]

12 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

my air pressure is 26psi F / 26psi R

 

Advised from from here?

https://www.tpressure.com/model/skoda/felicia_2/hatch.html

 

 

Edited 9 February by D.FYLAKTOS

[Thefeliciahacker]

34 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Advised from from here?

175/65R 14 82T 175/65R 14 82T

1.8-2.0 bar 26-29 psi 180-200 kPa

1.8-2.4 bar 26-35 psi 180-240 kPa

 

not really but I guess its another confirmation,

I just performed calculations and how lower I can run with greater A/R

[nta16]

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

You mean I didn't shift fast, in fact I didn't want to shift faster that that...

No, not at all I meant better to keep both hands on the steering wheel when possible.

 

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Ofcourse my thumbs will be over the spokes I'm not off roading, it's 0.45g if you rear the description im not willing to push more than that. 

Yes I could see you weren't off roading, I only thought about captions after I'd watched the vid a couple of times but 0.45g would have meant nothing to me (a typo perhaps).

 

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I did the brera has a 3 burst function by touching the stock 

That's for lane changing not turning off but as it was (finally) a dedicated lane I see what you mean.

 

5 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Indeed that's the 500s fault not mine. 

Sorry but not so, he cut you up a lot earlier and was well in front of you even though you were gaining on him, look at your video again.

 

I'm not a driving instructor, or a good driver, so you do as you please, though I do like to respond to any questions or comments made to me.  I should say on a public forum don't be power sliding on a public road, you would probably respond there was no one else there and you had everything under control which may be is fine until it isn't.  I am a bit surprised you would do such things as you have so much sympathy for your cars (well Felicia at least) but I am not your keeper and in the past done silly things on public roads so not trying to be righteous.  If you could get road training I think you would enjoy it, the technical aspects, the heighten observation, it would only involve power sliding if done off-road, doesn't have to be a wet slid pan can be on dollies.  Just as an example only, local winter UK driving course but can be applied to dry driving on slippy roundabouts and tight bends. - 

 

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

24 minutes ago, nta16 said:

am a bit surprised you would do such things as you have so much sympathy for your cars (well Felicia at least)

Where did you see vehicle strain 0.45G is not high stress. 

[Thefeliciahacker]

26 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Sorry but not so, he cut you up a lot earlier and was well in front of you even though you were gaining on him, look at your video again

Yes but if I kept my momentum I would have caught him right when the exit lane starts 

 

27 minutes ago, nta16 said:

  I should say on a public forum don't be power sliding on a public road, you would probably respond there was no one else there and you had everything under control which may be is fine until it isn't

Nah no real sliding just provoking the car a little bit, neither strenuous nor dangerous well withing the speed limit. 

 

28 minutes ago, nta16 said:

0.45g

0.45*9.81 m/s^2

 

29 minutes ago, nta16 said:

That's for lane changing not turning off but as it was (finally) a dedicated lane I see what you mean.

Yeah exactly I changed lanes haha I went one lane to the right, sooo I changed lanes 

30 minutes ago, nta16 said:

it would only involve power sliding if done off-road, doesn't have to be a wet slid pan can be on dollies

Not worth the money,in Greece these seminars are expensive af, it's cheaper to get an old BMW and start drifting it, if I crash who cares I'm 800 euros in, each lesson would cost 350 (with your own vehicle) so 2 lessons = 1 car 

 

33 minutes ago, nta16 said:

No, not at all I meant better to keep both hands on the steering wheel when possible.

How tf I'm I supposed to downshift and keep my hands on the damn steering wheel do I have paddles. I the speed I like to shift at is quite slow sooooooooo, the time it takes is around 2.5 seconds, I would not gain anything by shifting faster except more wear and tear 

[nta16]

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Yes but if I kept my momentum I would have caught him right when the exit lane starts 

Yes I realise this and that's what you should have done so were correct, cutting the lane a bit early isn't the crime of the century, lighten up.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Where did you see vehicle strain 0.45G is not high stress. 

I didn't see it, you mentioned it, I put I'd not no idea what you meant, I didn't think your Alfas would have such gauges, you are the engineer and interested in figures I'm neither. -

7 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Ofcourse my thumbs will be over the spokes I'm not off roading, it's 0.45g if you rear the description im not willing to push more than that. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Nah no real sliding just provoking the car a little bit, neither strenuous nor dangerous well withing the speed limit. 

Speed limit has nothing to do with it, nothing to me what you do no need to be so defensive and serious.  If you done that in the UK and a Ploice car was nearby I'm sure they would have a word with you if they could spare the stop and time and be able to explain way better than me.

 

59 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

if I crash who cares I'm 800 euros in

Depends what you crash into, and your self-learning rather than learning correct procedures from a trained tutor.  As I put it was just an example, there are opportunities of free courses and experiences sometimes here, there's a free scheme for 12-17 years for all sorts of driving training and experiences -only an example, in the UK, not necessarily available in Greece.  I'm surprised there aren't some schemes for studying engineers like build track vehicles (only an example) or something.  Sometimes you have to look and ask around about opportunities.

 

 

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

How tf I'm I supposed to downshift and keep my hands on the damn steering wheel do I have paddles. I the speed I like to shift at is quite slow sooooooooo, the time it takes is around 2.5 seconds, I would not gain anything by shifting faster except more wear and tear

 Are you sure you're not a teenager, I put when possible and I wasn't suggesting quick changes look again your hand isn't on the gear lever or heading to or from it - and I repeat I'm not a driving instructor or good driver.

 

Ease up on yourself you are being too serious and defensive you're not sitting some exam it's just general discussion on a forum but please don't act like a teenager and deny and be totally dismissive, have joke about it but also accept it a bit or just say I've got it wrong, people make mistakes, me all the time, and you too make mistakes, if you made any very minor errors in those videos they were very minor, quite insignificant not the end of the world.  These things don't need explaining in an engineering maths equation or formula and I would never have the first clue about such but you give me the feeling that's all you're prepared to accept, believe it or not there's more to the world but there are people who can put everything into an equation but still explain in a wider way.

 

Enjoy yourself, worry less, life is very short, the rest of us were 25 years old only the blink of an eye ago, despite what any maths would say. 😄