Hi guys, nice to be back on the forum. After a horrifying crash, Skoda was smashed the pieces. Lucky to be alive running around in a Corsa now I'm thinking of buying a brand new 2 l sport line. Superb. Can somebody tell me a age old question don't hate me is this gearbox in the 2 l petrol going to be dry 7. Speed or wet 7. Speed and is there a way of identifying it without jacking up the car which I would probably do at a dealership just to ask them to prove it? I know it's a bit extreme but don't want to buy a 7-speed dry clutch, but I think I am writing thinking 1.5 engine and under 150 brake horsepower would Daphne be the seven-speed dry? Please advise would be really helpful or any other hints you can give me. The car I would be buying would be the last of the suburbs before the new one comes out. Probably get a good deal but if all else fails I will go for a 1.5 manual. Superb instead. Do not want the dreaded 7-speed dried clutch gearbox

 

2.0l engine = wet clutch DSG

 

6 or 7 speed depending on exact engine and model year

1 hour ago, Diljit said:

Do not want the dreaded 7-speed dried clutch gearbox

If you know which engine and wattage you’re getting, but also 4X4 or not.

generally - if it makes more than 250 Nm, then it will have a wet-clutch DSG (DQ250 6-spd or DQ380/381 7-spd).

 

the lower powered engines come with the dry clutch DSG, i.e. the DQ200 7-spd.

10 hours ago, Diljit said:

Hi guys, nice to be back on the forum. After a horrifying crash, Skoda was smashed the pieces. Lucky to be alive running around in a Corsa now I'm thinking of buying a brand new 2 l sport line. Superb. Can somebody tell me a age old question don't hate me is this gearbox in the 2 l petrol going to be dry 7. Speed or wet 7. Speed and is there a way of identifying it without jacking up the car which I would probably do at a dealership just to ask them to prove it? I know it's a bit extreme but don't want to buy a 7-speed dry clutch, but I think I am writing thinking 1.5 engine and under 150 brake horsepower would Daphne be the seven-speed dry? Please advise would be really helpful or any other hints you can give me. The car I would be buying would be the last of the suburbs before the new one comes out. Probably get a good deal but if all else fails I will go for a 1.5 manual. Superb instead. Do not want the dreaded 7-speed dried clutch gearbox

 

Interesting, I’ve been on the lookout for one of the last Superbs as well.

I was looking at various different engines and gearboxes and had an underlying vibe from threads on here that the 7 speed dry clutch was to be avoided. However I’ve ended up put pen to paper on a 1.5 dsg estate. I’m no longer in the trade but I was a VW Audi technician many years ago and I’ve read up as much as I can on dsg gearboxes and particularly the dry clutch version - which is the most common one - and I really can’t see any reason to avoid it, more than any other dsg, other than it is more likely to wear the clutches out sooner than a wet clutch version, but that’s really only an issue if you’re going into mileage well over 100 k. The system is basically 2 clutch plates, one each side of a central drive plate and from what I’ve seen if you drive one correctly it shouldn’t be any worse than a manual clutch. The dry clutch assembly looks reasonably straightforward to replace (obviously by someone who’s experienced at doing it) if it did wear out. There seem to issues with the gearboxes on earlier versions but the latest ones appear to be reliable. There’s definitely posters in the Octavia forum running taxis with high mileages on 7 speed dsg dry clutch boxes.
I’m happy to be corrected (I’ve already bought one though !) but I’m hoping that they are actually ok 😬.

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by classic

10 hours ago, Diljit said:

Do not want the dreaded 7-speed dried clutch gearbox

In recent years, lots of mentions of wet clutch DSG playing up after not being serviced properly, similarly problems with Haldex on 4x4 where the filter cleaning extra work wasn't done.

 

But you will find virtually no mention of faults on DQ200 dry clutch DSG built in last few years, only those on pre 2015 cars.   So not sure what you are dreading.

 

Also can now get All in One, on cars over 3 years old.  for not much more than cost of major and minor service and 2 MOTs, get 2 years warranty, breakdown cover too.  Unlike cars with manual gearboxes, DSGs are covered by the warranty, so can get peace of mind.  (They also have 20-25% sales at intervals, and good value when at sale price)

 

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by SurreyJohn
Added All in One

@SurreyJohn Sadly the lack of issues since 2018 with DQ200 DSG,s is coming to an end, even from 2019/20.   First reports seem to be with 1.,6TDI,s with them

There are obviously the odd 1.5 TSI as well, but then nothing is 100% Bullet Proof.

 

One from last week.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/520962-kamiq-tdi-dsg-clutch-slip

The Mk2 Fabia vRS Twinchargers and other Twinchargers had a high percentage of DQ200 issues, but were / are not huge numbers of these,

There are lots of 1.6TDI with DSG,s and the failure rate was pre 2015 and even 2015-2018 was too high, and if you have one now from 2020 then we do not know how they are going to be at 5 years and older until they get to that age.

 

the DQ381 growing reports of issues with the MCU,s seem to be something VW Group are still trying to ignore as more and more fail 

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

1 hour ago, classic said:

Interesting, I’ve been on the lookout for one of the last Superbs as well.

I was looking at various different engines and gearboxes and had an underlying vibe from threads on here that the 7 speed dry clutch was to be avoided. However I’ve ended up put pen to paper on a 1.5 dsg estate. I’m no longer in the trade but I was a VW Audi technician many years ago and I’ve read up as much as I can on dsg gearboxes and particularly the dry clutch version - which is the most common one - and I really can’t see any reason to avoid it, more than any other dsg, other than it is more likely to wear the clutches out sooner than a wet clutch version, but that’s really only an issue if you’re going into mileage well over 100 k. The system is basically 2 clutch plates, one each side of a central drive plate and from what I’ve seen if you drive one correctly it shouldn’t be any worse than a manual clutch. The dry clutch assembly looks reasonably straightforward to replace (obviously by someone who’s experienced at doing it) if it did wear out. There seem to issues with the gearboxes on earlier versions but the latest ones appear to be reliable. There’s definitely posters in the Octavia forum running taxis with high mileages on 7 speed dsg dry clutch boxes.
I’m happy to be corrected (I’ve already bought one though !) but I’m hoping that they are actually ok 😬.

Excellent! Now that does help

1 hour ago, classic said:

Interesting, I’ve been on the lookout for one of the last Superbs as well.

I was looking at various different engines and gearboxes and had an underlying vibe from threads on here that the 7 speed dry clutch was to be avoided. However I’ve ended up put pen to paper on a 1.5 dsg estate. I’m no longer in the trade but I was a VW Audi technician many years ago and I’ve read up as much as I can on dsg gearboxes and particularly the dry clutch version - which is the most common one - and I really can’t see any reason to avoid it, more than any other dsg, other than it is more likely to wear the clutches out sooner than a wet clutch version, but that’s really only an issue if you’re going into mileage well over 100 k. The system is basically 2 clutch plates, one each side of a central drive plate and from what I’ve seen if you drive one correctly it shouldn’t be any worse than a manual clutch. The dry clutch assembly looks reasonably straightforward to replace (obviously by someone who’s experienced at doing it) if it did wear out. There seem to issues with the gearboxes on earlier versions but the latest ones appear to be reliable. There’s definitely posters in the Octavia forum running taxis with high mileages on 7 speed dsg dry clutch boxes.
I’m happy to be corrected (I’ve already bought one though !) but I’m hoping that they are actually ok 😬.

Excellent! That does help

Excellent, that does help. Thank you very much for the import

 

Excellent! That does help finding it a bit difficult how to work out to reply to people. Maybe I've got this wrong but we give it a go

3 hours ago, classic said:

particularly the dry clutch version - which is the most common one - 

 

Is that really true?  I assumed the wet clutch variants (particularly DQ250) were the most common.

Maybe so, but there’s a lot of 1.0 dsg across the various models.

Very very very few issues with 1.0 TSI,s,90-113/115 ps.  Not bad with 1.2 or 1.4 TSI 75-150 ps,   Not so good with 1.8 TSI or 1.6 TDI, 

and as far as 1.5 TSI & 1.5 TSI ACT we are starting to find out.

 

For the 2015 on myth of improvements try the thread in the Fabia Mk3 section.  The famous DQ200 clutch slip.   Upgrade software and clutches.

Then with the 1.5 TSI ACT 'Poor software' to get the WLTP certification came some DQ200,s with issues, another software update, 2018 on. 

 

These might well be small numbers, VW group and Skoda want it to be 'Internet / Social Media over blown.   Tough titty if you get landed with one.

 

Reversing a 1.6 TDI CR with DQ200 DSG on a Octavia / Superb is where people report issues sometimes.

Bigger car to move though back up a slope than a Fabia or Kamiq / Scala. 

1.4 TDI / 1.6 TDI, 1.0. 1.2. 1.5 TSI ACT.

 

There is a reason for 200-e DSG,s with Mild Hybrids,  VW Group / Skoda have no improved DSG,s for small cars / engines so for the US or Australia and other world regions you can get a 1.4 TSI with an 8 speed Torque Converter Auto. 

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

The thing is Rooted, if you look for ultimate reliability then you’ll never get anything except maybe a 20 year old Toyota Corolla base model with manual gearbox that has been dry stored from new ! 
 

My overall point to Diljit was that if you’re worried about dsg reliability then get a manual. I wouldn’t single out one type of dsg (2020 onwards) as worse than another. 

The gearbox specialist who rebuilt our 6 speed Octavia manual box has seen and rebuilt hundreds of auto boxes.

 

He describes the 6 speed Wet DSG as a sublime design and a fantastic bit of engineering. His opinion of the 7 speed dry clutch DQ200 is that it is a load of rubbish. But says he doesn't complain as he gets so many in for repair its bread and butter for him.

 

5 hours ago, classic said:

 The system is basically 2 clutch plates, one each side of a central drive plate and from what I’ve seen if you drive one correctly it shouldn’t be any worse than a manual clutch. The dry clutch assembly looks reasonably straightforward to replace (obviously by someone who’s experienced at doing it) if it did wear out.

If you actually research what's involved in a Dq200 clutch change youll find its complex requiring specialist tools and skills.

 

I see there are actually 2 generations of DQ200, maybe the gen 2 is a significant improvement on the gen 1.

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by xman

Thank you very much for reply. Definitely food for thought. A bit woriring isn't it when they make something that's rubbish but then confuse the issue with what you should be going for and what is already out there now. I am thinking staying with a manual box

1 hour ago, classic said:

The thing is Rooted, if you look for ultimate reliability then you’ll never get anything except maybe a 20 year old Toyota Corolla base model with manual gearbox that has been dry stored from new ! 
 

My overall point to Diljit was that if you’re worried about dsg reliability then get a manual. I wouldn’t single out one type of dsg (2020 onwards) as worse than another. 

It looks like it think I'm going to be heading down that route. Whole thing is bloody confusing now if you look at a ZF box. Nobody ever complaints but thank you for input guys. Much appreciated

Machu appreciated to everybody that help me in my dilemma. Looks like I might head down the route of buying a manual

40 minutes ago, xman said:

The gearbox specialist who rebuilt our 6 speed Octavia manual box has seen and rebuilt hundreds of auto boxes.

 

He describes the 6 speed Wet DSG as a sublime design and a fantastic bit of engineering. His opinion of the 7 speed dry clutch DQ200 is that it is a load of rubbish. But says he doesn't complain as he gets so many in for repair its bread and butter for him.

 

If you actually research what's involved in a Dq200 clutch change youll find its complex requiring specialist tools and skills.

 

I see there are actually 2 generations of DQ200, maybe the gen 2 is a significant improvement on the gen 1.

I actually did research how they work and what is involved to repair them, hence was happy to get one.

The issue is when people have issues. Hearing how well Skoda / VW Group sorted them out means nothing as the bills add up.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/519073-15-tsi-throttle-lag

 

Looking at the video I posted, its not hard to imagine how much of a cockup many Skoda technicians would make trying to repair them.

 

Measuring 0.1mm/0.3mm tolerances at several stages, adding subtracting offsets and having to strip and rebuild possibly several times changing shims until all specs are met. And thats just changing a clutch pack. Even spring clips having to be fitted right way round and in the correct position.

 

Not surprising when some previous threads say the mechatronics wont work after a clutch change, and then fleece the customer for a new mechatronics unit which in one instance I recall didn't fix the problem.

 

Then the problems of broken actuator arms and cracked pressure accumulators. Which are both design and quality issues.

Edited 12 February, 20242 yr by xman

Think with all you guys input and also watching this latest video I've made my decision. Unless it is a ZF box with a taught converter I'm going to buy a manual. Superb! Less hassle DSG seem to be problematic. I suppose they will sort the problem out with the new boxes but I presume it's just the design of this particular box and it's for runners. Thank you for all help

Torque converter, not taught convertor! 😉