Which will immediately be discharged again by the vehicle

 

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of stop start and would disable it if I am unfortunate enough to end up in a newer vehicle but they use a different (and of course more expensive) battery chemistry to allow for the quasi permanent lower SOC.

 

Its been over 50 years since short journeys could be a problem for dynamo equipped vehicles and todays vehicles really can charge a battery faster than the starter motor discharged it when needed but old habits die hard for some, for those that feel the need to charge their batteries to feel more secure then really the best plan would be to disable the Start/Stop crock of shoîte thus hobbling the battery mismanagement system reverting to a standard alternator charging profile which will bring them pleasure everytime they look at their voltmeter while driving or stopped.

 

And if you are going to do that then when the battery does eventually need replacing you can do so with a much cheaper standard one which probably will have a longer life.

"What is an EFB battery?

An enhanced flooded battery (EFB) can also be used in cars that feature Stop-Start technology.  It is considered an entry level battery for use in cars with this technology.  EFBs are wet-filled and similar to standard flooded batteries, however, there are differences that give these batteries enhanced cycling abilities and improved charge acceptance.  This means the battery recovers more quickly, as its application needs to handle heavy-duty, cyclic, Start-Stop applications." - https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/info/car-batteries-explained

 

"EFB batteries – for compact and mid-range cars with start-stop

EFB batteries are a further development of conventional lead-acid batteries.  The Polyvlies material on the surface of the positive plate guarantees that the EFB has a longer service life.  EFB batteries have a low internal resistance and are characterized by twice the number of charging cycles* in comparison with conventional starter batteries, as well as a high load capacity.  *Test standard EN 50342-1 and for EFB and AGM, additionally EN 50342-6

 

EFB batteries are suitable for the power supply of cars:

• with simple automatic start-stop systems
• without start-stop, but with demanding driving requirements (e.g. in urban traffic),
• without start-stop, but with extensive equipment." - https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/efb-or-agm-which-battery-do-i-need

 

@nta16
Same here with looking into the battery stuff, I'm much more clued up about it now.
I'm more aware now of over run when driving, connecting the DVM up has lifted the veil on what goes on.
At around 22.5K on the fabia, so quite low mileage for the age. Covid helped keep the mileage down in the first 4 years of the PCP i had on it, brought it Sept 2019.
Had a few VW, Mk2 / Mk3 GTI Golfs, 1.8T Bora Then a Mk2 Fabia then this one. 
I liked the Mk2 Fabia, definitely felt better built / quality than the Mk3.  Used to go well, was the 105PS version 4 cylinder.
Did look at a Mk4 Fabia but wanted to stop paying out for stuff so passed on it. Also still wanted a smaller car, all new cars a huge these days.

So kept the Mk3.
I don't know what the latest is with a cambelt change on these, I've certainly not done the miles. I thought it used to be 7 years or 60K.
Will probably leave the shunt cable attached, if i think I'm having issues with the battery SOC i might try unplugging it. 

Edited 14 May, 20242 yr by Gonzini

1 hour ago, Gonzini said:

I don't know what the latest is with a cambelt change on these, I've certainly not done the miles. I thought it used to be 7 years or 60K.

In the UK we were conned into 5yrs/50k-miles while elsewhere had 15yrs/180k-miles (or 15k-miles, I forget) and recommended annual checks - finally last year they stopped the con here and made it 15yrs/180k-miles (or 15k-miles, I forget), too late for us and others,  £450 taken under false precentrices from us, not that it ****es me off (thieves) but that the motor trade all over.  I put lighter green lines through that old list for it.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gonzini said:

Will probably leave the shunt cable attached, if i think I'm having issues with the battery SOC i might try unplugging it. 

There's more to the battery use than the start/stop system connected or not.  Think yourself lucky you only have a 2019 car, a 2021 or 2023/4 car is another couple of levels of pain and annoyance up on 2019.

 

I was driving a 2016 car today with auto wipers, the auto wouldn't wipe soon enough but then also odd time when not required, I'll see about programming the "feature/benefit" out next week if I can as it also annoys the owner who like me has always been capable of operating the wipers without this "assistance".

  

23 hours ago, Gonzini said:

Chassis ground and positive terminal, as required.

Good. 👍

 

23 hours ago, Gonzini said:

What would be the main benefit of updating the battery coding seeing as its like for like?

It will try and charge the battery more than the old one was being charged to.

 

I am still on the original battery at 8 years old and 81K miles on my Fabia.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

can the minimum charge maintained by the BMS not be changed with VCDS?

Be an interesting experiment to see if after a new battery has been fitted and used for a while if the computer has cottoned on to it being a battery restored to full health so fully charging as to their program or if 'coding' now would have them doing more as they've been told a new battery has been fitted.

 

I think if you have to put a new battery in without coding then perhaps immediately charging it up, as much or little as that takes, on the car (with an appropriate battery charger maintainer following the instructions in the car's Owner's Manual and for the charger) means the computer "learns" there and then or next drive(s) thus speeding up the computer's "learning" but I have no proof of being right or wrong without the use of a scan tool, which I no longer have.

 

Just now, Stonekeeper said:

can the minimum charge maintained by the BMS not be changed with VCDS?

I've seen on this site that you can set the level at which the start/stop becomes inoperative with VCDS (and possibly other scan tools and systems?).

 

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I've seen on this site that you can set the level at which the start/stop becomes inoperative with VCDS (and possibly other scan tools and systems?).

 

 

That could be a starting point to play with.

 

 

37 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I think if you have to put a new battery in without coding then perhaps immediately charging it up, as much or little as that takes, on the car (with an appropriate battery charger maintainer following the instructions in the car's Owner's Manual and for the charger) means the computer "learns" there and then or next drive(s) thus speeding up the computer's "learning" but I have no proof of being right or wrong without the use of a scan tool, which I no longer have.

 

That's what i ended up doing, not sure how i would know if its charging at a higher rate. Its definitely working though!

1 hour ago, AGFalco said:

Good. 👍

 

It will try and charge the battery more than the old one was being charged to.

 

I am still on the original battery at 8 years old and 81K miles on my Fabia.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

I see, i guess it might learn the new battery characteristics over time though, unless it really does need resetting.
You've done well out of your battery then.

23 hours ago, Gonzini said:

I see, I guess it might learn the new battery characteristics over time though, unless it really does need resetting.

Yes it will learn, but it is better for the battery long term if you do reset it.

 

The car as a whole has done very well. 

MOT and 8th service to do this month.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

On 14/05/2024 at 21:05, Gonzini said:

That's what i ended up doing, not sure how i would know if its charging at a higher rate. Its definitely working though!

A battery in a better state of charge and health will need less charging.  As I put before best to get the new battery 'coded' at installation or soon after but fitting the new battery and immediately fully charging it as you have and then driving the car has the computer knowing the battery in the car is now better and it can respond to this.  I'd not lose any sleep over it, some have reported that they've never bother with 'coding' and been driving the car that way for a number of years.  Yes if you get the opportunity now or in the future to have the battery 'coded' get it done, and have a scan report and error codes deleted, but it can wait no panic or rush.  Just remember to charge the new battery before it gets low if you want it to last longer than the previous battery.

 

@nta16
I'll see if i can find someone, might be someone on here local. When i asked at the local VAG specialist garage up the road they said £150 odd to change it over. I asked about coding the battery with that and he said they never bothered with the smaller cars like the Polo's etc. So I'm sure there plenty of places out there banging new batteries in cars and just sending them out the door. Not saying that's best practice you understand.
In light of that i thought i might as well just do it myself and save £50.
I've got one of those cheap battery / alternator testers that Lidl where selling a while back, put a cigarette lighter plug on the end of it and been using that.
That can just live in the glove box then. Would be nice to have one that had better resolution over the window of interest but does the job. 
Actually i just picked another one up yesterday for £1.19 as they were selling them off. Mainly to see how accuracy is compared between them.
It goes green at around 12.5V then amber, then red below around 11.5V. Then the higher voltage alternator LEDs kick in.
Been making more use of engine breaking and over run, though i tend to drive like that anyway. Im sure on certain journeys the battery wasn't getting much charge at all.
Probably save a bit more fuel as well in the process.

New battery full charged after it has been left to settle will be 12.7-12.9v depending on lots of variables, on the car, after opening the car and letting all the computers settle for about 20-30(?) minutes you see about a 0.3v drop (everything turned of that can be (12.7v will show as 12.4v).  All rough figures only for example.

 

A mate's 10 year old slightly buggered battery off his 2005 diesel Jag I fully charged (well as much as it would) in my shed a couple of weeks or so ago after a few days just sitting in the shed it settled on 12.8v, just checked it now 12.7v, it'd be fine for use on some cars not not a  little use and then only short journeys diesel Jag or a modern VW.

 

VW, if you can believe anything from them 😄, battery figures - (n load to voltage) 12.7v-100% - 12.3v-60% - 12.1v-40% - 11.7v-0%.

 

I was thinking of getting the battery 'coded' and an error report before deleting any errors codes (to see if any return, hopefully not, a battery in low state of charge and even disconnecting and reconnecting the battery can upset the Gods that are the car's computers.

 

For battery 'coding' and error report and deleting codes, someone on the list may be able to help you for beer tokens.  Mine was done on an OBDEleven by a site member not far from me.  The reports can be very long so below is just the battery 'coding'.

 

List of member that might be able to help you. - Briskoda VCDS Owners Map (click me)

 

ETA; you don't get much engine breaking on modern cars, inflate your tyres to 'eco' setting, reducing the rolling resistance of the tyres, and you'll see just how far you can roll without the accelerator being touched.

 

I'd not worry about carrying any testers (or spares or tools) in your car, prevention is better have things right at the start do your driver maintenance (preferably at home when convenient) and you'll soon get to know things are good or going off a bit.

 

@nta16
As I've read though previous threads on the subject, the cars seem to want to keep the battery around the 80% SOC, so around 12.4V which i think i recall seeing happening on mine.
Though this new battery is sitting slightly higher so I'll take that.
I have watched a few videos on the battery coding on these, looks fairly straight forward. If i had the tools i would do it myself but what i do have available won't do the job.
Should try the blue tooth OBD adapter i have though as can check / clear fault codes, if it see them all of course.
Yes, i was going to mention about how on this car leaving it in gear on over run doesn't really slow the car down like cars I've owned of old. Kinda got used to it after 4.5 years now.
Tester can live in the glove compartment. Its actually cleverer design than you might think. Its uses a PIC micro so its all done in software from the A/D readings it takes.

 

Just for interest...

Over V Chrg Defect    15.32V
Chrg Func Max           14.33V
Chrg Func OK             13.06V
Fully Chrg                    12.47V
Half Chrg                     11.90V
Very Lo Chrg               11.50V
 

Edited 21 May, 20242 yr by Gonzini

The SOC charge is said to be 80% or 70% but I've not seen any original information on this, the12.4v mostly refers to AGM batteries but the VW start/stop system isn't really designed for battery life longevity it's about "look we're trying to save fuel and deduce emissions".  That's why they have to change the battery at 5 years but the more modern cars can't make it that far even. I might be wrong as my memory isn't brilliant but IIRC later Owner's Manuals have charge at 12.3V.

 

I'd not take 12.47v as fully charged, it may be sufficient charge but it's not fully charged and I'd not want to see 12v when car is rested, I've no qualms about filling the said 20% or 30%.  But don't misunderstand me, I don't frequently check the battery state of charge (at the posts, car unlocked for about 20 minutes) and don't worry about it.  The replacement AGM battery has needed charging more than I expected but it's not much more than a few a year, I don't know if or how much more frequently it'd have been needed if I'd stuck to an EFB battery because my wife's car doesn't have the extra insulation said to be required for an AGM battery so may not be as efficient as it could be, but we're all surviving with the occasional help of the low cost Ring charger maintainer.

 

Don't get too hook on on this, just do some routine checks or when there's a period of greater use or much hotter or colder weather.

 

Ultimate Speed I think I've seen are in/from Lidl/Aldi and I've known neighbours and others buy cheap battery charger maintainers from them and they have been good, that tool would be just for diagnostics checking for me, once in a decade or so (or more) use on my car but if it gives you accurate reassurance then it deserves the glovebox space.  I don't like too much storage space as then it tends to get filled with stuff just because the space is available, my last car didn't even have a glovebox. 🙂

 

If your Bluetooth thing is just a generic code reader and not VW specific then it'll possibly only pick up generic OBD error codes, again nothing to lose sleep over but worth doing if you can.