I drove one and was thoroughly underwhelmed.

I didn't thrash it but drove briskly-off the limit it is completely dull to drive. Just like a normal Focus but faster IMHO. The interior is pretty drab too and the seating position I found pretty poor - didn't seem to adjust how I wanted it despite the normal Focus being ok in that respect.

On a track I'm sure it would be a different matter but as someone who drives normally on the road it's a car I'd have not much fun in.

I'm a big fan of the Astra vXR and would have one over an ST regardless of what all the journos think.

Have you tried the Golf GTi ? The interior is a much nicer place to be than th eFocus - particularly if it has the leather recaros.

I agree with you on the Astra though' date=' I think that whilst the Focus may be a quicker track car, the Astra's power delivery makes it more fun day-to-day. Its not available in "hey-look-at-me orange" either :P

They'll become more common than fat smelly people at ASDA and you'll see one everywhere you go.

Not sure about that, insurance should keep the scrote count low, as will the running costs.

I'd still go for the Megane Trophy F1 and spend the £3k savings on mods :DAnd if you really have to go for Pillow Biter Orange, the Megane can be had in it too

Not sure about that, insurance should keep the scrote count low, as will the running costs.

I was thinking of the ones who invite themselves in at 3am and run away with the keys.

i've driven one with 4 big, heavy people in it and it was a hoot. fast as hell and had a real hooligan exhaust note. little bit cheap inside, but great for the money. looked v nice in dark grey metallic with standard 18" wheels - you could get one of them and a nice sports motorbike for the price of the VW golf GTI..!

Pillow Biter Orange

:rofl:

lambo orange is nice but from my mates experience it seems to chip very easily , and his is modded already 19"s , milltek , bigger FMIC , K+N , and small spoiler below the rear screen

hes now selling it due to the fuel costs , he was getting about 18mpg and he wasn't using it to go to work just good runs , taking off the FMIC at the weekend and didn't even get to fit the Eibachs , will be sold with the 19"s or with the standard 18" wheels , iirc

Sorry to blunder into this thread so far down the line but.......

Yes, the ST handles a bit better than the Octy II vRS, and it sounds better

BUT

An equivilent ST to my vRS would have been roughly 1k more, seemingly my problem was I wanted an ST-2 with a CD changer "sorry sir, Ford dont offer that as an option on the ST-2" so i had to spec an ST up and still would have lost the Xenon lights........also the vRS is 600quid cheaper. (before anyone says, they are both 17.5k, they are not. A 5dr ST is 18.1k)

Also it has no spare wheel, and the clutch in the one I drove was f*****g awful, Good weight and feel in the first 2" of travel, then it turned in to a renault clutch (ie foot crashed to the floor):thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:

And there is still NO LEFT FOOT REST!!!!!!:thumbdwn:

Sure, it was a great car to drive the nuts off on the back roads, but in real world driving the vRS is the better car IMVHO

I cannot understand the Octy vRS pricing from our leasing company. For an Octy vRS with Xenons, Metallic Paint and Climate Control - they want £40 more a month than the ST2 with metallic paint (comes with xenons). Yet according to the book the Octy will hold on to more of it's value, puts out less emmisions and is cheaper on servicing. OK, the Octy might be a tiny bit higher in price with those options, but negligible really I would have thought.

Crazy.

Pricing's a good point - when I looked the salesman said do not buy an ST1 for road use as it's a waste of time off the track and I wouldn't be able to live with it because it had no traction. How did I manage with the 300ZX - more power and no electronics :confused:

But a good point that if you want an ST2 you'll end up paying £20k for a properly specced one :thumbdwn:

Isn't a 300ZX RWD where the ST is FWD (hence the traction issues)

Point taken

My point is if a car that will mildly understeer at the very worst is undrivable at 200ish (or whatever) bhp without aids, how the hell do people with oversteering, overpowered cars cope?

FWD and electronics have resulted in a generation that can't drive for toffee.

I cannot understand the Octy vRS pricing from our leasing company. For an Octy vRS with Xenons, Metallic Paint and Climate Control - they want

Point taken

My point is if a car that will mildly understeer at the very worst is undrivable at 200ish (or whatever) bhp without aids' date=' how the hell do people with oversteering, overpowered cars cope?

FWD and electronics have resulted in a generation that can't drive for toffee.[/quote']

I'm not exactly what you'd call an experienced driver and I've only really driven FWD cars (bengie's Saph doesn't count - it's too slow), but there doesn't seem to be much you can do about an overpowered FWD car (that VXR Vectra seems a good example of overpowered FWD) apart from slowly feed in the power until the road is straight, whereas you can steer into the oversteer of a RWD car

:confused:

I think the idea is based on Mr Average driver.

In a FWD, if the car starts to slide, instinct tells you to lift off (remove power). Car then regains grip and off you go.

In a RWD, if the car starts to slide, instinct tells you to lift off, car then oversteers even more and you crash into a hedge backwards, ie most RWD will bite the inexperienced driver.

I guess with traction control being standard in most reasonably powerful cars and some not powerful at all cars (my old 100 TDI Fabia!), most drivers will not need to worry about all this stuff anyway I suspect the Vectra VXR would be a lot better manned with the T/C on

Chris

In my limited, yet growing, experience of RWD. I'd say I'm very glad to have ESP.

You can drive like a loon mid corner and the car does its best to help, constantly tweaking and adjusting things. Boot the 350 out of a roundabout and with the ESP on you can fling it all over the place and it just changes direction and goes.

Turn the ESP off and you'd be in a right mess.

I still think 220bhp is the most you want in a FWD car.

I have one. An ST3.

The car is superb. I wouldn't say it feels particulary quick as the torque curve is so flat from 1500rpm but it certainly does shift. The car will pull easily away in 3rd and will pull strong from 10mph in 4th.

The only critisms I have is the fuel economy (avg 21 mpg) and the seat ride hide. It just doesn't go low enough for me, but that really is a minor critism.

The engine sound is to die for. It reminds me of the old 5 cylinder Audis.

The boot is ok. Its not because of a rear diff as someone mentioned (made me laugh) but because the exhaust back box takes up all the room.

The clutch I find OK.

The interior is spot on.

Heres my comparison. Had a TT and a Octy RS for over 3 years. Used to go from one car to the other thinking both were great cars. Then the vRS went and I had a Subura Legacy. Again used to switch from the TT to the Legacy and thought both were great. Now the TT has gone. The Legacy feels like a bag of sh!t compared to the ST. It really does.

I will be getting a new Octy vRS when the Legacy is due to go back. The ST is my wifes car by the way.

You can drive like a loon mid corner and the car does its best to help' date=' constantly tweaking and adjusting things. Boot the 350 out of a roundabout and with the ESP on you can fling it all over the place and it just changes direction and goes.

Turn the ESP off and you'd be in a right mess.

[/quote']

I'm getting really off topic but do you think it's de-skilling drivers as a result?

My initial point was that to say something with 240 (or whatever) bhp is a track car if you don't have traction seems silly - surely it's just a case of driving properly - in a front wheel drive car especially - the only casualty would be the tyres

I know I can go round a roundabout faster with ESP on than I could without it. However, a more skilled driver could probably go faster with it switched off.

But does this mean I've been de-skilled? I dont think it does, because I never had the Stig's ability in the first place.

I do agree that ESP and the like will probably lead to a reduction in driver "skill", but they will also lead to a reduction in deaths/injuries on the roads - which is a more than fair trade

People like Goochie, who know more or less what they can and can't get away with would probably have their driving skill limited rather than reduced or dumbed down (but they'll also have a "play" without the aids when safe and continue to learn), the real dangers are probably those that drive in total ignorance of the fact that their ABS/ESP etc has just saved there life - what happens when they have to drive a car without the electronic aids...:eek:

But back on topic, I haven't driven an ST but would love to and I reckon they look loverly in Panther back - bengie had a test drive ande said it was very nice (especially the exhaust/engine note)

I do agree that ESP and the like will probably lead to a reduction in driver "skill", but they will also lead to a reduction in deaths/injuries on the roads - which is a more than fair trade

I wonder if it will though. I've spoken to people who think ABS will shorten stopping distances (so they drive closer to cars in front!) and people who have traction control so they can just drive like a hooligan and the car will sort it out. Unfortunately, I've also seen the results of what happens when ESP can't get you out of a situation and it's not pretty. Let's hope these people are a minority, but from the number of accidents I see on my daily commute, I'd suspect not :(

The real solution is substantially better driver education, but I'd be impressed if any government had the balls to implement it - would be political suicide!

Chris

The ST idea is unfortunately off now. Although I was happy with the lease price, the fuel costs were slightly niggling, but upon hearing the news today that there's a 6 month waiting list for an ST . . . :eek: Sorry, but even for that car I don't have that much patience. :(

My mate went in last Wednesday, bought one, had it on Friday - it was someone elses order who had subsequently cancelled it... there's always that route (although obviously your lucky to get exactly what you want)...

What about a new Passat?

there built on the golf chassis too so will be a good drive

Passat is a bit big really. Mini Cooper S is still favourite.