2020 vRS 245.

Ignoring the VW specs and brands (I've heard good things about Millers Nano), what are we thinking? I'm due a change in a week.

0W-20 is quite thin and from what I've seen, it was chosen mainly for emissions/efficiency. A lot of people run 5W-30 or even 40.

I run the car fairly hard sometimes and would rather have protection than efficiency. I live on the South Coast and let the car warm up properly when freezing, so I'm not too fussed about cold weather performance.

Thoughts?

I've always ran 5W-40 in mine, and it gets driven hard sometimes. I've heard mixed reviews about 0W-20 in these engines but nothing bad about 5W-30/40. I'd stick with 5W to be on the safe side. It's also what VW intended when they produced these engines!

Why deviate from the manufacturers recommendations, I use 0W-20 as that is what they recommend for my Superb, there may well have been internal alterations to the specifications of the engine such as materials, limits & fits etc, so if they say 0W-20 I would go with that.

Best stick to the VAG standards on this:

2020 cars - on the TSI side - using the VAG 508/509 standard - which is 0W20. This is also known as LL4 (longlife 4)

Older cars (2013-2018) - use the older VAG 504/507 standard. This is also known as LL3 (longlife 3) - and is typically - 5W30 or 0W30. With higher mileage engines, use a 5W30.

On 22/05/2025 at 14:18, OccyVRS said:

2020 vRS 245.

Ignoring the VW specs and brands (I've heard good things about Millers Nano), what are we thinking? I'm due a change in a week.

0W-20 is quite thin and from what I've seen, it was chosen mainly for emissions/efficiency. A lot of people run 5W-30 or even 40.

I run the car fairly hard sometimes and would rather have protection than efficiency. I live on the South Coast and let the car warm up properly when freezing, so I'm not too fussed about cold weather performance.

Thoughts?

I've been thinking about this myself (Gen3B engine) and if I were to change, I'd swap from 0/20 to 0/30. I think 5/30 would be a mistake.

Bumping up the 0 to 5 may result in more wear on engine start, though going from 20 to 30 would give better hot protection under heavy load/hard driving.

As I generally potter about, it's not something I'm in a rush to do, but it is on my radar.

On 23/05/2025 at 15:48, cnc said:

Why deviate from the manufacturers recommendations, I use 0W-20 as that is what they recommend for my Superb, there may well have been internal alterations to the specifications of the engine such as materials, limits & fits etc, so if they say 0W-20 I would go with that.

There HAVE been internal changes.

From VAG Self Study Programme 645.

I've ditched the idea of 5W-30.

0W-30 sounds like it might be the best of both worlds. I'm running stock power now (#sad) so I'm tempted to just stick in 0W-20 and cross the 0W-30 bridge if and when I come to it. The car does get driven hard, however it's been on the thinner oil for the last 39,000 miles.

Thank you @EnterName for the info on the oil pump - that changes a lot. I wonder what the pump is on the Evo EA888.4 engines - I know they're recommended 0W-30.

Uhm, VW have made and changed recommendations about oil and coolant in the past possibly to cover previous mistakes and compromises, German car engineering ain't all it's cracked up to be particularly this century. Who knows, what goes on there might land them up in court one day, whoops. 😄

Any 0w-30 or 0w-20 is going to be a good oil (other engine manufacturers are on 0w-16, 0w-12 and 0w-8) will be good oils there will be degrees of differences in protection and of course the oil want to be suited to the engine and its environment and use, so it's horses for courses.

The 20 and 30 (of 0w-20 and 0w-30) is a range so one oil at 20 could be close to another oil at 30 especially in use and worn, so it's horse for course again. - (ETA: the 0w of course is same cold crank starting spec on both the oils.) - What is Oil Viscosity a.k.a. Oil Weight? - https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/what-is-viscosity.php

The modern oils at this sort of level offer very good protection but if stop/start is used a lot, lots of frequent short journeys (as my wife's Fabia does) then a bit of extra protection might be the just in case belt, braces and bit of string reassurance and if you want to throw in extra bits of chewing gum on top why not.

I saw something about GM now recommending a 'thicker' oil than 0w-20 for their engine, how much GM practices for engine building various from VW I don't know but at least they're dealing with the issue but then it's in the USA even VW had to deal with things and cough up in the USA. Europe and particularly UK are much easier touches.

Personally I don't over worry about the VW dictates of yet another specification on top of the others already there, and these VAG engines aren't that special (VW 4-pots have always sounded rough to me and I'm used to driving 1960 and 70s BL engines until only a few years ago. I've used Millers oils for a few years now and favour them as they are a local oil blender and their oils seem good to me, I'm currently using Millers Oils EE Performance in my wife's 2015 1.2 TSI engine and 5-speed manual gearbox, the gearbox improvement was noticeable, engine I don't drive the car enough or now listen to all the various engine bay noises at various times.

Yer pays yer money and take your choice.

Edited 27 May, 20251 yr by nta16
ETA:

ETA: Long Lasting is a bit of marketing con to me, what it's saying is this oil has been formula to be better soi that it allows more use, suggest what the oil recommend for 9,400/annual needn't be as good, a very good oil will offer better, wider, more protection for longer anyway whether they put LL or Long Life on the label. The engine, the way the car is used, its environment, will dictate the actual oil life. These sort of things seem to me to be more aim at fleet purchasers with side benefit of general public appeal.

How far is this taken, just out of interest is the same oil filter specified for annua and flexible (9,400 and 20k?) oil changes does anyone know?

I arrived at the same conclusion. It left the factory with 0W-20 so that's what it'll be getting. I know nothing significant about engine oils (aside from the basics), so who am I to question the mighty VWAG? Certainly, I would be changing to 0W-30/5W-30 based on the advice of, effectively, strangers on the internet. I'll run with what they suggested for now and if it blows up at 100k, it won't affect me. If I get it tuned again, then maybe I'll revisit this, so watch this space.

Regarding the filters, I'm going to quote... you!

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

Uhm, VW have made and changed recommendations about oil and coolant in the past possibly to cover previous mistakes and compromises, German car engineering ain't all it's cracked up to be particularly this century. Who knows, what goes on there might land them up in court one day, whoops. 😄

Any 0w-30 or 0w-20 is going to be a good oil (other engine manufacturers are on 0w-16, 0w-12 and 0w-8) will be good oils there will be degrees of differences in protection and of course the oil want to be suited to the engine and its environment and use, so it's horses for courses.

The 20 and 30 (of 0w-20 and 0w-30) is a range so one oil at 20 could be close to another oil at 30 especially in use and worn, so it's horse for course again. - (ETA: the 0w of course is same cold crank starting spec on both the oils.) - What is Oil Viscosity a.k.a. Oil Weight? - https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/what-is-viscosity.php

The modern oils at this sort of level offer very good protection but if stop/start is used a lot, lots of frequent short journeys (as my wife's Fabia does) then a bit of extra protection might be the just in case belt, braces and bit of string reassurance and if you want to throw in extra bits of chewing gum on top why not.

I saw something about GM now recommending a 'thicker' oil than 0w-20 for their engine, how much GM practices for engine building various from VW I don't know but at least they're dealing with the issue but then it's in the USA even VW had to deal with things and cough up in the USA. Europe and particularly UK are much easier touches.

Personally I don't over worry about the VW dictates of yet another specification on top of the others already there, and these VAG engines aren't that special (VW 4-pots have always sounded rough to me and I'm used to driving 1960 and 70s BL engines until only a few years ago. I've used Millers oils for a few years now and favour them as they are a local oil blender and their oils seem good to me, I'm currently using Millers Oils EE Performance in my wife's 2015 1.2 TSI engine and 5-speed manual gearbox, the gearbox improvement was noticeable, engine I don't drive the car enough or now listen to all the various engine bay noises at various times.

Yer pays yer money and take your choice.

The engine oil is longlife, but AFAIK longlife filters don't really exist. All of the LL fully synthetic oils can apparently keep lubricating well north of 15k miles. Frankly, if you're leaving your oil changes that long, well...

What's more interesting is why the DQ381 is the only wet clutch DSG to have an 80,000 mile interval, and why the filter is apparently only to be replaced every second service (I.E. 160,000 miles, 320,000 miles). This is why I'm not overly trusting of the oil recommendation - this is the same company that is telling us a paper filter will last upwards of 160,000 miles. Yeah, right.

I'm with the courts I don't fully trust VW. 😄 I was actually leaning towards 0w-30 if I was keeping the car, thinking 0w-20 was more of the faintly ridiculous nth degree of saving fuel in an overweight vehicle on oversized wheels and tyres, with often only one or two of the 4/5 seats occupied and offering cars that have so much power and speed. I like you like to drive in a spirited way occasionally which can often be less fuel efficient. And the internal combustion engine is such an ancient technology that for decades more and more systems have been bolted on to it to save less and less fuel, plus I've never had the impression the mainstream VW engines are anywhere near the front of the field for engine development.

The 15k-miles for LL use might depend on how that mileage is achieved, nothing really simulates real time, real world use which is how customers help with product testing, certainly for a couple of English car brands I've owned anyway. 😄

But as you rightly put why go off anything anybody tells you particularly on the internet without checking and cross referencing so anyone that goes with VW as the manufacturer of the engine is starting at least from a reasonable point. I'm not a VW fan so biased against them.

I'm also not with VWŠkoda for their 6 years / 60K-miles interval foe engine air filter changes, particularly for a diesel that needs all the help it can get to be a bit cleaner.

DSG box I know nothing of and keep away from, I was never a fan of it when it come out decades back but I'm sure it's useful for some, dilutes the fun of spirited driving in my way of thinking, good for racetrack stuff no doubt.

All that should get my opinions well discount for many here. 😄

Be interesting to see what the 0w-20 engines are like after 10-12 years use, they might still be near pristine and 0w-30 ones recycled.

+1 for 5W30 or 0W30 (and, as bonus, You'll get a little less oil consumption too).

@indars Do you guarantee less oil consumption. Is that your experience of using 0w 20 FS IV and then 0w 30 or 5 w 30 FSIII ?

What about those that have no oil consumption between services, maybe Fixed Servicing?

1 minute ago, Ootohere said:

@indars Do you guarantee less oil consumption. Is that your experience of using 0w 20 FS IV and then 0w 30 or 5 w 30 FSIII ?

What about those that have no oil consumption between services, maybe Fixed Servicing?

I cannot guarantee it and have no experience since always used 504.00/507.00 5W30 oil.But it's normal that turning for "waterly-econo-oils" no "normal ones" reduce oil consumption.
Plenty info about this can be found in Japanese cars forums (as those cars often reccomends 0w20 or smth like that).

10 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@indars Do you guarantee less oil consumption. Is that your experience of using 0w 20 FS IV and then 0w 30 or 5 w 30 FSIII ?

What about those that have no oil consumption between services, maybe Fixed Servicing?

...and you're on safe side anyway because officially it's not forbidden from VAG to use 504.00/507.00 oil instead of 508.00

We are not forbidden from anything in this Free World, we are not in the USA are we.

VW Group can say what they want, some need to put on Big Boy / Girl pants and decide what they do with their property...

So back in 2010 Toyota went to 0w 30 FS III because the new Euro 5 cars were not getting their published economy with the 5w 30 FS III that they had when launched.

Car drivers driving real roads not on a Rolling Road in a temperature controlled building, they were in many vehicles not even getting near the expected efficiency ignoring the kidology figures.

I always recommend 5w 40 FS non long life with Twincharger 1.4 TSI,s because of experience of them running at a lower temp and reducing oil use with excessive oil users.

& less detergents as already bore wash is an issue and the prescribed Super Unleaded already has enough detergent.

But,

if the Recommended Oil does actually reduce fuel consumption real world then the added oil costs might not matter.

As to real world, there are many regions and climates and conditions cars / engines are used in.

As to that UK conditions, nothing extreme really right from the furthest North to the furthest south.

Edited 28 May, 20251 yr by Ootohere

Part of me is in the camp of 'it's just for emissions', but the part of me is inclined to just go with what VW suggests. I've no idea what they've done oil pump wise, and I doubt they're going to deliberately grenade a few hundred thousand cars just to get lower emissions - especially after the last few years...

My trusted Indie just got back to me, and said they always run 0W-20 in cars, even if they're tuned. He was also unsure about using 30 oils at higher temperatures, given they're more clingy.

I think I'll stick with 0W-20 for now and look into 0W-30 if I ever go past a simple ECU tune. It hasn't used any oil in the last year (and only a touch of coolant, actually). I'll see what the condition of the oil is when it's changed and report back.

I get the engine oil changed every 6,000-7,000 miles and, with a move to London on the horizon, keeping with the lighter oil for shorter journeys might be advantageous.

Ultimately, I'll just stick with what VW suggests. 0W-20 is a thin oil, but if bearings, oil pumps and tolerances are designed to suit, then running a heavier weight might do more harm than good. Certainly, it's hardly a huge difference and I think something else will blow up before the engine does.

As this thread discusses, there isn't much evidence that sticking to the recommended oil causes any issues. Frankly, if the car blows up then it's an excuse to get an S4!

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/engine-damage-caused-from-0w20-5w20.183530/

Edited 28 May, 20251 yr by OccyVRS

On 22/05/2025 at 16:18, OccyVRS said:

2020 vRS 245.

Ignoring the VW specs and brands (I've heard good things about Millers Nano), what are we thinking? I'm due a change in a week.

0W-20 is quite thin and from what I've seen, it was chosen mainly for emissions/efficiency. A lot of people run 5W-30 or even 40.

I run the car fairly hard sometimes and would rather have protection than efficiency. I live on the South Coast and let the car warm up properly when freezing, so I'm not too fussed about cold weather performance.

Thoughts?

RAVENOL VMP SAE 5W-30

True PAO oil, 5W30, ACEA C3 and with Audi Motorsport "accept" in bonus hehe. And with official VAG accept 50400/50700

+quote from internet:

ACEA C3 and C5 oils both fall under the "mid-SAPS" category, meaning they have a reduced level of ash content compared to conventional oils. However, C5 oils are designed for more fuel economy and have a lower HTHS (High-Temperature/High-Shear) viscosity compared to C3 oils. This translates to thinner oil under pressure, which can improve fuel economy but might require more careful consideration in certain high-performance engines. 

I'm not doubting that! IIRC the thinner oil was used in the Euro 6 EA888.3 engines - the EA888.4 (EVO) are using 0W-30.

My point though, is that if VW have optimised the engines to run on the thinner oil, be it through tolerances, pumps or whatever, then running a clingier, thicker oil, might not be the best thing.

I don't trust VWAG, so would welcome any evidence than running a thinner oil causes harm.

Edited 28 May, 20251 yr by OccyVRS

The 220 and the 230 run 5w30 the 245 was put on 0w20 to pass emission rules.

My 2019 Surperb fitted with the 1.5 Tsi engine.The service history states the car has used the 0W20 from its first engine oil change at 250 miles.

When I collected the car the Skoda dealership serviced the car prior to collection and filled the engine with 5W30 oil at the request of Skoda.

On the next service the engine oil used to service the car was filled with 0W20.

The car is on the annual service plan but uses the LL oil specification.The car has used no oil in 4000 miles.However , please be aware that my driving style is moderate so no Italian tune ups etc etc but I sit in the nearside lane of the motorway at 70 mph.

Please bear with me but I use Shell V power petrol to hopefully keep the engine internal parts clean.

When I collected the car the master technician said we would love to service your car but if you go another service centre make sure the correct engine oil is used.Any problems with the engine normally happens when the incorrect engine oil is used.

POA has pros and cons of use, similar or same things can be achieved by different blends, as always a good oil is a good.

Unless VW have made (another) balls-up or compromise with their engines I'm not sure using a "thinner" or "thicker" oil would show up much in the short to medium term, oil analyst might perhaps show different wear on different bits or to different extent. For other than cold starts perhaps a thin for its 20 range 0w-20 compared to a thick for its 30 range 0w30 oil might show more differences and effect in use, whether enough to make any real odds other than a very small difference in emission and fuel consumption only use and time might tell.

Judging by past experience I don't think VW would rush to let their Dealerships and their staff, let alone customers, know of any problems relating to certain engines or generally whether related to oil weight range or not but as they don't make the oils (or coolants or batteries) themselves I'm sure they'd be happy to use them as a scapegoat (again?).

Edited 28 May, 20251 yr by nta16
typos

I agree. As I said, for now, I'm just going to stick with 0W-20 and cross the xW-30 bridge when I come to it. Interestingly, some tuners have suggested sticking with the recommended weight, whilst others (including big names) have suggested going up to 30. That's sort of why this is a question for me. If everyone was saying stick with VW, or saying to stick in something else, then it would be easy (I.E. the consensus on the 80k DQ381 service). My issue is, some places say 0W-20, some say 0W-30, some say 5W-30 and some say stick in whatever. Reputable places vouch for each, so it's difficult to decide who to listen to.

I'm not keen on 5W-30, as on winter mornings it might be a lot for the oil pump to cope with. I know they did change it in these engines. Ultimately, it's unlikely to make much difference, at least for now, but it's one of those things I thought would be worth bringing up and keeping on a back burner. After all, there's no point spending money on intakes, tunes, suspension parts, etc, only to not invest the same amount of effort into oils, coolant, etc.

As I progress with my usage/plans for the car, as well as mileage, I'd like to know that I'm using the best oil I can offer it.

FWIW - I agree wholeheartedly with you on this. Just because I'm helping my bearings by using a thicker oil, doesn't mean I'm helping the cylinders, oil pump, channels or whatever else.

20 minutes ago, nta16 said:

might perhaps show different wear on different bits or to different extent.

Thank you everyone for your comments so far! I'm not sure why some people have to make it so difficult. If you don't agree with a comment/thread/post, there is absolutely no need to make a non-constructive comment - especially when it's not true.

Hi Nigel , Thanks for your heads up on the topic.Both the specification of oils are approved by VW for use in the 1.5 Tsi engine.

I believe , correctly or incorrectly that quality engine oils are paramount for benefit of reliable engines.On the service plan I have the oil is changed annually or in my case every 3000 miles.

My only experience with long life engines also was a 1.9 diesel VW Passett to be serviced every 15000 miles.

The company I worked for purchased 30 cars and most of the engines drank engine oil , it did not help but the company representatives had to buy the oil and claim the cost back through monthly expense claims.

The oil in 1 litre bottles cost £15.00 each that in 80000 miles I purchased 2 litres of oil.

Most of the other reps went to the cheapest source and just oil in from any source they could , to the specification but of questionable quality.

VW understandably where not happy bunnies and checked the oil specification and found only one engine to be running on approved engine oil. ( My company car )

No idea what the outcome was because I left the company.

That is why I regiously only used quality engine oil.

1 hour ago, bigcar said:

Hi Nigel , Thanks for your heads up on the topic.Both the specification of oils are approved by VW for use in the 1.5 Tsi engine.

I believe , correctly or incorrectly that quality engine oils are paramount for benefit of reliable engines.On the service plan I have the oil is changed annually or in my case every 3000 miles.

My only experience with long life engines also was a 1.9 diesel VW Passett to be serviced every 15000 miles.

The company I worked for purchased 30 cars and most of the engines drank engine oil , it did not help but the company representatives had to buy the oil and claim the cost back through monthly expense claims.

The oil in 1 litre bottles cost £15.00 each that in 80000 miles I purchased 2 litres of oil.

Most of the other reps went to the cheapest source and just oil in from any source they could , to the specification but of questionable quality.

VW understandably where not happy bunnies and checked the oil specification and found only one engine to be running on approved engine oil. ( My company car )

No idea what the outcome was because I left the company.

That is why I regiously only used quality engine oil.

Brands aside, as long as the oil you use meets the VW specification (I.E. 508 00) then you'll be fine. Apparently there is a difference between specification grade oil and 'suitable for' so do bear that in mind.