Hey folks, wonder if anybody has ever experienced an issue like this with their Fabia.

Important context:

• driven pretty much every day, mix of about-town, country roads and 2 stints on the motorway last week

• Went for a car wash on Saturday, all in order afterwards with brakes all working exactly as normal

• MOT’d in September with no advisories

So I went to give it a quick once-over before a long drive on Monday which has now been postponed. As per the title, the brake pad has completely ‘locked on’ to the brake disc and the wheel will not turn. Recovery were in attendance just to see if it could be moved however no joy with a spray. Tried both in forwards and reverse with plenty of clutch + throttle, could feel the car ‘pitching down’ toward the front driver’s wheel

Does anybody have any thoughts on maintenance actions to perform or experienced anything similar? Getting it to a garage in town under its own steam would be preferable as the geometry of the car park where it’s parked could make recovery… interesting shall we say.

If it is the 2019 i looked in your profile to see what Servicing & Maintenance has it had in 7 years. 2 or 3 Brake Fluid changes by now should have been done, were they? Have the brakes ever been serviced?

How come the recovery didn't free it off or recover the car to your home or garage?

Others may have other and better deas but all I can think of at the moment is as follows.

Depends if you want or can work where the car is and safely raise the front wheel off the ground to try turning it, if so I would try just slightly opening the bleeder valve on that brake caliper so a slow trickle of brake fluid comes out and try turning the wheel. Don't forget to close the bleeder vavle when required and don't touch the brake until you have fully closed the bleeder vavle.

If required I might remove the wheel and put my two "wheel alighnment tools" in two of the (bloddy stupid) bolts (instead of studs and nuts) as pionts to rest a bar or tube against to get greater leverage to turn the wheel (trolley jack handle, peice of wood, ect.).

If above didn't help then you might have to cosider removing tha caliper if you can which might take some leverage and/or force and not be pretty.

It might also be handy to have a ssecond person spraying brake cleaner over the area of pads and discs and perhaps caliper (bleeder vavle closed and nipple cover fitted) at the same time as try to turn the wheel or remove the caliper. Note tarmac doesn't like brake cleaner so a bowl may be needed to catch spray and drips.

Another thought, might be rubbish be easy to try - take the fuse out of the ABS or electrically disconnect the ABS pump block then see if you can turn the wheel, I don't know if you would need the ignition on but you might as well as that release the steering lock (on non-key starting model at least) and you can check which warning lights are working and those that should go out shortly after turning ignition on.

To answer questions- car doesn’t need recovery from where it is (except to a garage for repair if needed) car was not mine when previous services were scheduled so can’t speak on the brake fluid. Recovery tried to free the brake with spray but no joy. Will try the above later, I’d much rather limp it to a garage under its own steam if possible

Recovery should have tried at least the opening the bleed nipple if not disconnection the ABS, for at least when the vehicle isn't moving.

Have a look at the brake fluid in the reserviour, if you need to take the reserviour cap off to see then wipe the cap and surrounding neck to and reserviour top with a clean cloth to prevent grit and muck getting in, place cap on clean part of cloth face down. The brake fluid shuld be clear but can be a bit black if in older car but it shouldn't be denser black. The colour of brake fluisd varies a bit but you can often, not always, tell if it looks very old.

If you can't release it enough then driving it will get the pads and disc very hot meaning it will more likely seize up again sooner, especially if you use the brake pedal.

A neighbour's car had an intermitent problem with a caliper that applied the pads, then onced the car was parked and cooled down the caliper seemed fine, garage couldn't find anything wrong but on driving back from the garage the fault returned so the car was turned around and back to garage and resulted in new front brakes from flexi-hoses on (the car was 17 years old very low mileage and next to none recent years use, and not VW parts costs).

Brake fluid looks fine (quantity and colour), got the tyre off to tap the caliper and the front tyre seems to move alright. However, the process of doing that has led to the discovery that the rear drum brakes are also stuck. This unfortunately complicates things significantly and leads me to suspect that the stuck caliper was a symptom.

Uhmm, I wonder if this is possibly to do with ABS or other such electronic system(s). As I put I would pull the ABS fuse or connection, turn on the ignition and see if the dash has anything to say, then if not start the engine and see if you can drive the car a yard or two as a test. If the dash has lights or messages or even if not I might try dissconnecting the battery for 10 or more minutes to see if that helps (have the electric windows and sunroof fully shut, IIRC you should only need to reset the time of day clock then).

There could be two different issues, one with front wheel and other rear wheels, by two different causes but that might be too coincidetal in this case (or might not). For rears I might check releasing bleed nipples, handbrake mechanisms, handbrake is off, jack the rear sides up to try turning the wheels. Check brake pedal. If available plug in scan tool but not expecting too much help from it.

Are you DSG or manual gearbox?

On the front caliper the fact that when you tapped it it released it may be that the piston is sticking in your front caliper or the slider pins are seizing/seized. Too many garages use copper grease instead of silicone grease on the slider pins and copper grease eventually dries and seizes them plus wrecks rubber gators. If its was ABS related then I would have thought both front calipers would be affected.

If you have discs on the rear the lever that operates the handbrake on mine is prone to seizing on. Have had two now that the rear brake was binding due to handbrake not releasing properly. If it was a problem with ABS I reckon it would have shown ABS warning light or at least stored a fault code. I would get someone to scan with vcds to check. If its going to a garage I would get them to strip down and check/clean and relubricate calipers.

Alasdair

Sorry for radio silence, been tied up trying to get it to a garage while keeping up with education. Garage have now done diagnostics on it, basically to say that the brake units are in very bad shape and require replacement (front and back). If that wasn't enough, one of the calibers at the front needs replacement due to heat damage after seizing on and the front shocks are leaking.

It's worth pointing out that the car was bought in late August last year and a one-year used car warranty is also in effect. The state of the drums was pointed out at the time and we were assured that this was par for the course but clearly not. Part of the course was to have an MOT done with no advisories, but the impression I've got from friends and family who are far more experienced in dealing with cars (this is my first) is that the level of corrosion and damage on the braking system is far too advanced to have occurred within the time I've had the car. Quite why both front and rear have failed at the same time is beyond me but could be a case of efforts to get the front brake unstuck causing failure of the rear.

The freeing of the front would have no effect on rear and the fact they all failed is pure coincindence. Reckon if both front and rear are bad the car may have been in a High salt area or even coastal.

MOT with no advisories ?? but if the brakes were working and equal/balanced at the time it will pass. If its still under a years waranty and hopefully covers brakes the seller should replace all calipers and wheel cylinders plus Depending on condition of front discs may be worth getting new front discs at the same time plus make sure they replace both front shocks not just one. If the front got very hot it may have also damaged wheel bearing as well so mention that to them

Alasdair

Many people put too much faith in an MoT pass. An MoT is only one (hopefully trained) person's opinion that, at that one and only piont in time, the car's meets the mimimum statutory standards. It does not mean the car is as good as it could or should be and with the greatest of good intentions the car could have additional advisories or even fail another MoT minutes or seconds later, let alone days, weeks and months later.

The car may have been in a salty or damp area (you are in Scotland) or with these types of cars they can can be used very little and/or sit for long periods of time unused, which can mean rust and rust buildup on the brakes. Cars are designed to be used, many cars now aren't used enough, especially by older owners that don't really need a car but still want one.

Some good news - the front dampers ("shocks") may be leaking but it might only be what is refered to as "misting" a common thing on VW's of this type at least. Those that know about VW dampers give allowance to this common "misting" (lack of) quality issue. Of course your dampers might be worse than "misting". The replacement (£500!) new 2-year warranty front dampers on my wife's 2015 Fabia were "misting" 11 months later. Weeks later on having the replacements to the replacement the VWŠkoda Dealership that fitted the leaking new "misting" pair gave a fresh MoT without advisories. a year later a proper (independant) garage knew all about VW dampers and put the "misting" as an advisory on the MoT and following MoT they done. They could replace them if required with better quality dampers for a much, much lower fitted price.

VWs are not as well made as many still think they are, but Czech Škodas are better built and factory quality stadards than the German built versions. And low mileage on a car isn't as good a thing in many respects as many people think it is.

If the car had rust build up and then the seller had it sitting around for a while if the rust hadn't been attended to then of course it would be worse. I've dealt with elderly neighbours' cars that had rusty brakes, some clean up with use of the brakes, some a lot more use of the brakes and one as I put before intermitently locked up a front wheel so that it got very hot and siezed up and perhaps released when cool - but that depended not getting the disc too hot.

The front discs and pads are very easy to do, a DIY job for even someone like me, I put up guide(s) on front and rear disc and pads replacements. The fronts were the easiest of the few I've ever done over decades. The rear drums I believe might just be usual farting-about-with-cars awkward rather than difficult, but I don't know for sure as i've never done any on a Fabia.

You don't p1ss about with brakes and you always replace both sides of discs and brakes (same for dampers) and if a caliper can't be refurbed then it needs replacing. Some calipers are very inexpensive, no idea about VWs. You would also change and flush the brake fluid on a job like this.

Front and back brake failures may or may not be a coincidence it depends on what is found on inspection. The exterior appearance of the rear drums may or may not fully reflect the condition of the brakes inside - the thing is you can't assume, or accept a car seller's word for such unless they have been checked in which case they would also have been cleaned and seller would tell you that.

With second hand cars, more so, it's a case of Buyer Beware, you should check not just the car but it's history. With the car registration you can check past MoT history and the recorded mileage at MoTs and cross eference the information and any mileage with othert history such as service and "road tax". Any gaps may mean the car was sitting getting things like brakes rusty.

Also bear in mind tyres are an essential part of the braking, steering and supension systems and often a good indicator of possible general car condition and how it's been looked after particularly just prior to or at piont of sale.

A lot of info but there's a lot to know and as you have found it's better and less expensive to learn from the experiencies of others.

Let us know how you get on.

Edited 9 May9 May by nta16
typos

Thanks for responses all. Car was previously owned by an older chap but in the 6 years of its life before me it still racked up a decent yearly mileage. MOT history was checked before buying but nothing to do with brakes in there.

Tyres are grand along with the rest of the car (the garage it's in with currently also did a broader 'health check')

Main concern right now is likely being on the hook for replacement of all the brake units as the warranty will probably try and use the 'normal wear and tear' get-out clause.

If I had more time I'd try at least some of it myself but unfortunately I am far far too busy and lack the proper tools to do a job of that magnitude. Silver lining from this mess is that the rest of the car is in good shape and, once the required work is done, should hopefully set the car up well for many more years on the road.

And on a broader note, the whole experience has given me new impetus to keep educating myself on car ownership and, where possible, do jobs myself (eg wiper blades, changing air filter). I should hopefully have an update on Monday.

(@Evolution13 - garage have confirmed that brake fluid was fine and not due till next year, though it'll be changed as part of the replacement work anyway)

Edited 9 May9 May by Flatiron210

MoTs are only done once a year (after the first three years) so a lot can happen in those 11, 12 or 13 months.

Better than it done reasonable annual mileage than low mileage for many aspects of the car and your ownership.

Tyre health insn't just about the amount of tread left on the tyres (something any owner can easily check for themselves) it's also about the condition of the trad and the tyre sidewealls and tyre age (four number code on the sidewall). Best is if the four tyres are all the same make, exact model and of course size but if not that the tyres on eah of the two axles are exact match for the other side. Of course there are different quality of tyres, generally the harder longer lasting (tread) tyres have less performance (braking, grip, road holding, handling, road comfort and niose).

For not fair wear and tear you need o have photos and garage back up and mileage and use to show it's not you causing or adding to the brakes rust.

Again for brake fluid some just test for moisture content but this doesn't allow for the contamination the (very cheap to produce) picks up overtime. Changing the brake fluid regularly should also be used as a flush to the any unseen crap out of the system too. Same for coolant, just checking the antifreeze level is Ok is only doing part of the job and "for life" coolants such as VW use negelect to say what is considered life (beyond any car manufacturer warrant for VW and others). Same for gear oils too. But this all depends on how long an owner wants to keep the vehicle themselves and how much longer they want the car (engine) to last once out of their ownership. It's not in the car manufacturers' interests for the car to lasdt too many years.

Despite all the electronic interference on modern cars much of the car is still mechanical and electrical and most (not all) servicing and maointenace still just boils down to clean and lubricate with perhaps some minor "spannering" easuily within a DIYer (often doing a better job than paid professionals because they care about the quality of the work and the car).

Car manufacturers are already making it very difficult for DIY by more and more electronic lockouts and further "specialist" tools required but a 2019 car misses a lot of that.

The rear brake cylinders are not expensive as are the front calipers if needed. Last rears I bought were around £13-00 each and front calipers were around £40 each. Those were for a MK1 but stick your reg into https://www.partsinmotion.co.uk/

and check prices.

Alasdair

@Flatiron210 This is quite a familiar story to me. I had a Fabia Mk2 from about 4 years old (front discs and rear drums like yours). I regularly serviced it for a while, then fell in to just changing the oil and hoping for the best in an MOT. I'm not particularly proud of that, but I don't actually think that regular servicing would have really made a huge amount of difference.

Eventually I did get sticking front calipers and indeed overheating of the front nearside wheel. I also noted that the previous set of discs had not even lasted through one set of pads. I had brought this up with my local garage but was generally fobbed off with them saying it is normal to go through a set of discs with only the relatively small mileage I had done.

At this point I decided this was the time to educate myself about what had been going on and I did. The garage I had been using had been replacing the pads and discs and making very little effort to clean anything up around the bracket and caliper. My fuel economy was probably taking a huge hit with the piston not really retracting (for at least a while) before getting really bad.

After briefly considering refurbishing the calipers, I realised that special tools would be required to remove the seized bleed screws and pistons. (The calipers are of some residual value if you trade them in for refurbished ones.)

I did the whole job myself, but changing a caliper involves disconnecting the brake lines, so I really had to learn properly what I was doing.

From what I have found as a rank amateur (as my name suggests), best practice would be to check your bleed screws every two years, remove them, put them back in with anti-seize (replace with fresh ones every four or so years probably). Also, after about ten years, buy a kit and replace the pistons, or at least the two rubber seals. Also, get in around the caliper and bracket with a wire brush attachment on a drill or a dremel grinding stone attachment. Also, make sure the slide pins are clean and greased.

Proper servicing would probably take the caliper off, sand blast it and replace all the moving parts and seals. This would be well before it sticks, because if it is sticking, the inside milled surface the piston operates on may be pitted already, meaning a much more difficult job of refurbishing it.

Then, I moved on to the drums, and this is where I discovered that things were extremely bad. The drums themselves were okay, but there was so much brake dust that had turned into a stone like coating all over everything inside. One of the cylinders was leaking slightly and not operating correctly. The springs weren't returning the shoes to the correct position for driving, so only the action of driving was releasing them from the sides of the drum. Effectively I believe that the car was somehow passing MOT with very little rear braking input. Whether it should have passed I don't know.

I do believe that the brake drums possibly hadn't been off since the car was new and it was about 12 years old at this point. Certainly it is within reach for a car owner to open up the drum and clean it out with brake cleaner every now and again, but caution should be exercised when jacking a car up and putting it on axle stands. For example, once you have the rear wheels off the ground, the effect of the handbrake is nullified. I did do the full job on the drums and I noticed a big difference in that on releasing the handbrake, the car would roll much easier.

So the moral of the story is that if the car is ten years old and or has done around 70,000k miles, yes it could be completely valid that a full brake overhaul is necessary. You wouldn't do that if the car has other major problems, but if the engine seems okay and it is running fine, yes get it done. If the same regime is followed as the original one, it will be back in the same place in a few years though.

I should add that my understanding of an MOT, is that it decides whether the car is fit for the road at a given time. A customer could wish to get the last 1000 miles out of a set of discs, so the garage inspects the car and decides if the discs are ok at that moment.

As I found out, if you are only presenting your car for MOT, and not really getting any other inspections carried out, you really should be a hands-on car owner. Only experience can really teach you this though.

Some good advice. Might be a little too over cautious and premature on parts replacement because of previous experience from leaving things a bit too much.

Most servicing and maintenace and some repairs boil down to simple clean and lubricate, which should as put be included as required when replacing parts.

For the bleed nipples, they will be used every two years when changing (and hopefully flushing) the brake fluid so will be tested then I'd not remove them at fear of getting crap in you can feel how easily (or not) they open and close, no need to overtighten to close. With the pistons if you are keeping on top of the "servicing" then they should last a reasonable time, obviously more serve conditions may hasten their demise.

Drums used to be "serviced" or cleaned every year or 6-months, this might include handbrake and drum adjustment, lubricating and checking for wear on shoes and other parts. Some people still clean all the brakes every year 6-months ( aneighbour seems obsessed with wheels off and brake cleaning on any car that gets near his drive. Obviously can't criticize checking and cleaning brakes but I don't often clean the discs and pads brakes, drums would be another matter.

I am a very rank, vey amateur, very relucant, non-mechanic type that started doing some work on my cars when I began to run out of money to pay professionals to do low quality work which I then had to finish off or redo myself, not because I was any good but I took my time and fully cared about the outcome, unlike some of those I paid.

As I am so reluncant about farting about on our car(s) and don't know too much mechanical stuff I do understand why others don't want to especially with these modern plastic cars full of computers, sensors, modules, thinnest electrical wiring possible, ect., ect..

VW don't alweays use the best quality parts on their cars so you can improve on what was fitted by the factory and what they offer as replacement parts, often better quality and longevity parts than VW offer and often at lower prices than VW or their suppliers charge, go better not just cheaper, particularly on brake, steering and suspension parts (all three systems include tyres).