Peak power may be increased but we all know that ther eis more to life than peak power figures.

Do the filter companies actually claim to gain those BHP figures? Or is it just their fitters/re-sellers who do it?

I dont think the filter companies have spent an awful lot of money developing a filter for the 1.8T - it is afterall just a variation on existing technology.

If I could charge double the cost of a standard part just because people thought it made a difference I would. How much do you think VAG spent developing the air intake compared to the filter companies :eek:

Rolling road readings are all well and good but we have logs to prove the airflow is better with the standard airbox.

carbonio state that you should expect 8-10bhp increases on their website which is part of the reason im confused by contradicting comments, not having a go, i just like talking about stuff like this in aid of self education...

id say that said "performance" companies do indeed spend huge amounts on developing the technology, but the money is spent on developing the filters and materials for the job as pretty much every combustion engine is subject to the laws of physics...(colder air is denser etc etc.) application is therefore relatively irrelevant provided the key principals of induction are where the money has been spent(highest airflow for the least percentage of heat gain from the engine compartment) manufacturers do spend money on this to develop their kits but basic economics tells you the part will be designed to do the job for the cheapest amount possible and to be even cheaper to mass produce...so the aims of what both are trying to achieve are quite different arent they.

id agree low down power gains may be minimal but your not going to be spending

... when bazza in his SRI pulls up are you? you'll be in first and keeping the car in the powerband.

A good point, except that this scenario only happens occasionally. A boost in low-down power/torque can hugely affect a cars general 'driveability', which I'd personally prefer.

Oh, and SWMBO gets the hump when I go Bazza-baiting

...anyone who wants low down torque from their engine needs to of bought a diesel in the first place.

:eek:

I agree with you entirely about discussing these kind of things. Few of us are experts, and part of the interest is in experementing, and sharing ideas. Keeps me young

A good point, except that this scenario only happens occasionally. A boost in low-down power/torque can hugely affect a cars general 'driveability', which I'd personally prefer.

Oh, and SWMBO gets the hump when I go Bazza-baiting

I agree with you entirely about discussing these kind of things. Few of us are experts, and part of the interest is in experementing, and sharing ideas. Keeps me young

lol, you need to move over to leeds, ive got a std looking focus at the moment an i get hassle ALL the time from BAZZA an usually his Girlfriend SHAZZA. generally im well behaved but if the roads are empty and the lights are green...

anyways realising i can talk all day about the thermal properties of a string vest and this topics about WOOOOSHes ill leave this to get back on course.

manufacturers do spend money on this to develop their kits but basic economics tells you the part will be designed to do the job for the cheapest amount possible and to be even cheaper to mass produce...

Sorry for being blunt but thats a load of tosh.

Air box design is a "black art" of air flow design and physics. There is a great book on just that which, I read at Uni. Sadly I dont have a copy but I'll see if I can get it from the local library.

If the intention was to design a cheap air intake system they have failed.

I could design a cheaper one in half an hour if you're interested, Mr. VW Engine Design Director

Goochie i cant seem to find your guide for degausin the maf

by this i assume that you mean removing the gauze inthe unit

Sorry for being blunt but thats a load of tosh.

Air box design is a "black art" of air flow design and physics. There is a great book on just that which, I read at Uni. Sadly I dont have a copy but I'll see if I can get it from the local library.

If the intention was to design a cheap air intake system they have failed.

I could design a cheaper one in half an hour if you're interested, Mr. VW Engine Design Director

dont be bud sorry bud, like i said want having a go at anyone(although we seem to be a lil upset dont we?). air box design is a black art eh. im not after any quotes from books. of course there are several factors more than just cost affecting how the intake system is designed, and im sure you could design a cheaper one but could you mass produce it for as many cars as demand requires, could you source the materials to meet demands could you meet the requirements of the engine designer and of the accountant and the client and could you do this within a time limit and could you also make the item cheap to service and replace??? if so you really do need to get filling in the job application forms matey. my point was that although there are other factor involved COST is the main one that commands design limitations when designing a mass produced car. you'll probably find (and i dont know in this specific case) that compromises are made throughout the entire design process. im no expert and i dont pretend to know more than i do. the point i was trying to clear up was that stock parts are flawed as appears here and some comments appeared to me to be saying that the stock part was indeed better than a part designed around performance. if that was indeed the claim i wanted to see why as im keen to get the most from my octavia when i get it on sat.....almost forgot..

ps: im a quantity surveyor by trade not a designer for VW, you must have me mistaken bud. i simply have spent alot of time im my life reading about engines instead of football and have an interest in stuff that makes me think.

Most CAI are just a pipe with a filter on the end, no airbox at all. They place the filter in the path of cold air which helps but have no 'reserve of air' like an airbox does. The main reason 'performance' CAI sell is because they make the car sound faster.

I and many others have done testing comparing various CAI's to the stock airbox and the stock airbox in various states of modification. The modified airbox wins everytime and is the reason I am happy with the decision to use one on my 400+bhp Octavia.

Hello "bud"

I too have a keen interest in anything mechanical and also read anything interesting relating to anything mechanical.

I wil try and dig out something along the lines of the original article I read - it will be an eye opener for most

so should i cancel my order for a carbonio CAI as it will not make my car faster? and the claims to increase power are indeed wrong?(in your experience...id take the word of someone running a 400bhp car when he's done most of the work over some marketing goon anyday)

also goochie, send that document to me via pm or another topic, save the spam on here.

also (last question) im getting it remapped and a dv fitted, in you guys experience what method of induction works best for seeing the most peak power, (cost irrelevant) CAI, standard, or cut fins out an put a green filter in???

but could you mass produce it for as many cars as demand requires, could you source the materials to meet demands could you meet the requirements of the engine designer and of the accountant and the client and could you do this within a time limit and could you also make the item cheap to service and replace???

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

rather foolish comment really considering you dont know nor cant catagorically prove the quantities involved for any of those answers are...unless you work at VW HQ (in which case ill shut up,lol) and were part of the team that did the design brief. but i get your jus ribbing me so thats cool.

oops see that your a inkjet designer, sorry thats the next best thing to vw design chief, ill shut up.

(on a serious note tho, v impressive education dude! i concede you know alot more than i probably ever will about the engineering industry but all that education seems to have made you a bit confrontational when anyone dares to question let alone contradict any of your ideas) c'est la vie tho, sure your a nice guy.

so should i cancel my order for a carbonio CAI as it will not make my car faster? and the claims to increase power are indeed wrong?(in your experience...id take the word of someone running a 400bhp car when he's done most of the work over some marketing goon anyday)

also goochie, send that document to me via pm or another topic, save the spam on here.

also (last question) im getting it remapped and a dv fitted, in you guys experience what method of induction works best for seeing the most peak power, (cost irrelevant) CAI, standard, or cut fins out an put a green filter in???

When you've spent what I have then the cost of an induction kit is irrelevant. If you don't care about the sound (as my prefered solution is even quieter than standard) then the best solution in my opinion which is backed up by airflow logs and torque readings is based on the stock airbox.

You need to smooth the inside of the airbox but retain the 'trumpet', fit a quality panel filter (my preference is green), then fit an internally smooth cold feed pipe to the lower passenger side grill. The grill will need the blanks cutting out or replacing with mesh.

Typical costs are

It was my understanding that you were asking if I could do the job of a VW design engineer if I was working at VW. In that instance I would have all of the information you're waffling on about so yes - it would be relativly simple.

No, I dont work for VW but I have spent 4 years working in automotive component manufacture/assembly in the UK. Working with many manufacturers and 1st tier suppliers I've been involved with projects for Aston Martin fuel tanks, Porsche Cayenne sun roof assemblies, Land Rover bodies, MG Rover bodies, Honda bodies, Nissan fuel filler neck, LDV van cab systems.

I spend a year working with TVR and their engine design house on con-rod design.

I also chose fluid dynamics as one of my majors at Uni.

I think, when you're decideing on a CAI you need to consider the total pressure recovery efficient, the entropy gain due to shock and also the viscous effects. Its all about the mass flow rate coefficient.

HTH.

Phil MEng IMechE IED

lol, cheers man, ill decide when i pop over to awesome on sat what i do, see your from round me. love to get a gander under the bonnet(wont touch or take owt promise) of ya car if your off to any meet soon?

You're more than welcome to look at my dirty, dusty, grubby standard engine bay any time you like

Eddy h does the trumpet bit come out at all as it's a bit tight behind there to get the spine's out

I think, when you're decideing on a CAI you need to consider the total pressure recovery efficient, the entropy gain due to shock and also the viscous effects. Its all about the mass flow rate coefficient.

so.... CAI IS the best way for out and out peak power gains, forget noise and torque.

simple yes or no will do as my calculator is on the blink.

Whats the point in having an increase in peak power of all you're doing it making the power curve even more of a spike ?

humour me

as a mate of mine used to say "it's all physic's"

my mate says im a simple northern monkey struggling to get a simple answer.

And a mate of mine used to say "you cant agrue with physics"

sod it, as i cant get a straight answer ill get the cold air intake. wrongly or rightly.

You'll be pleased with it, they look great and they sound good (better than the cheapo ones).

i would'nt do that if i was you i'd ask someone on here they are very knowlegdeable about thing's like that

sorry i could'nt help myself