Marwood's Paintwork Problems (Disaster!)

[fluffmeister]

Yeah I read this thread. I remember thinking how great your car was, but at the time I didn't appreciate the real significance of depth readings at the time. Little did I know!!!

From what I gather the readings on your vRS and mine are not uncommon. Even the most respected of manufacturers seem to bare these little 'historical clues'. Only there if you look, or find the need to look later on.

How is your vRS at the moment, it was unwell, engine coils and their apparent scarcity?? I didn't follow through on the story properly.

Thanks for the link fluffmeister!

Paul.

Slightly OT but mine is running fine now (touch wood) it munched 2 seperate coil packs and now I carry a spare in the boot just in case, should not really have to on a 17k car, but it's better doing that than sitting on the side of a deserted road in the wee hours of the morning waiting for Skoda Assist if it happens again.

[Dodgy]

Marwood, the car is looking great. I had every confidence that Mitchells wouldn't abandon you and I'm glad to have been vindicated (because I'm a customer of theirs, too!)

I'll keep an eye out for you!

Dave.

[Marwood]

Marwood, the car is looking great. I had every confidence that Mitchells wouldn't abandon you and I'm glad to have been vindicated (because I'm a customer of theirs, too!)

I'll keep an eye out for you!

Dave.

I'm really sorry to have to post in this thread again.

I think it has been established that I am a rational person......

........so forgive me for the following......

I am absolutely Fu**ing furious. I can only describe the restraint I am showing at the moment as remarkable. I have a back log of work sitting infront of me, I have my son who needs attention, and my mother in law staying till good knows when, cos' the builders have 'one or two jobs still to do' on her apartment. Yet, I am outside with a bloddy camera recording what now appears to be a car that still has hologram marks, just in different places, some of which did not bare marks before it went in for correction. What the f**k is going on?

Am I being to picky or something? Is this me? I am starting to doubt myself.

My last long post indicated my 'satisfaction' given the fact the remaining marks appeared to be small and I was going to get Iain to detail the car soon anyway. However in the nice sunlight on my drive I noticed dreadful marks between the doors on the Driver's side on Friday and today I have had to go and have a proper check. It's a like my car has become a hologram magnet, a warehouse holding an illegal Hologram rave or a steaming pile of sh**e on a hot summer's day for hologram flies to feed on. There are marks on the bonet for F**ks sake and the front nearside spoiler. What the crap were they doing!!!? I haven't even washed the car yet as is apparent from the photos I am now going to have to download. Plus I spent Thursday evening purchasing expensive car car products of the net so as I can look after the car properly, what's the point.....I just can't enjoy this aspect of the car any more, mat as well use fairy f**king liquid and a handful of swarfega (yes I don't know how to spell it!)

Do you ever get the feeling you want to........you know like that film 'Faling Down' with Michael Douglas.

Right,

I can't blame the dealer for the new holograms. They clearly know bugger all about car body work, they have tried their best. This is what I am going to do. On Monday, when I have better things to do I will be ringing Richard at the dealership. Telling him that I am NOT BLOODY HAPPY and that I will be passing to him ANOTHER BLOODY LETTER with ANOTHER BLOODY SET OF PHOTOGRAPHS. I am going to let Skoda UK know. I am going to ring Mike Mitchell if I don't get it sorted (strap yerself in Mikey!) and I'll tell you something else, that car wont be going back to the dealership or Roberts for correction. Mitchells will have to accept the bill I am going to send them for the paint correction i am going to have to get someone else to do. If it starts to get messy or the car canot be corrected then I WILL DEMAND AS BIG A REFUND AS I CAN and if it isn't big enough......I'll think about that when I have calmed down!

Will post another link to another set of photos as soon as I have calmed down a bit. You can let me know if you think I'm being picky.

Paul

[Marwood]

Here is the link to the photos: Marwood_photos/Holograms AFTER last weeks CORRECTION - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Many Thanks,

Paul.

[Mr Grumpy]

Not being funny Marwood, but.....

Have you tried washing it and polishing it yourself, to the best of your ability, and then looking again?

Black cars are notoriously difficult to keep clean, and even harder to polish properly.

Even the best kept cars look streaky and smeary after a couple of miles of road use, even after being detailed.

I'm not saying you don't have cause to complain, obviously not having seen the car in the flesh, but...

[s3akr]

You are not being picky. You work hard, you get your cash, you spend it on something, you expect it to be right. Your car aint right.

Continue to keep reasonable, get some advice on rejecting the car from the citizen's advice or trading standards office and know your rights and postion. Decide on what you want from the dealer, what you are prepared to accept and what you are prepared to (legally!) do if you don't get it. Stick to the plan 100%. Do all of this promptly as the longer you leave it the harder it is to reject. Let them know in writing that you still have issue with the car.

I think you'll find that they have not completed their contract of sale until they have delivered the goods in a condition the befits the description and reasonable expectation.

[Marwood]

Thanks for the suggestion Mr. Grumpy,

Washing the car will have no effect on the hologram marks. It will remove the dirt but under the circumstances, I have no intention of washing the car.

Polishing: if you had asked me a little while ago about this then I would have thought about a little trip to halfrauds and a nice polishing cloth from the same vendor. These days I see polishing quite differently. You have seen the damage a professional can do, so I wont be 'getting me rag out and avin' a crack mesen'. The polish that is needed to correct holograms is very fine (especially given the dangers to my clearcoat!) and it needs to be performed using the correct polishing tool. The key to effective removal is experience and the skill to use the buffer properly over the surface of the paintwork. Holograms are caused when the polish has not been worked properly. I do not have the correct tools or the skill to do this, applying polish by hand could lead to swirl city! Anyway it isn't my place to correct what I haven't caused. The dealer will have to pick up the bill for this one way or another!

You are certainly right about cars looking streaky and smeary, I have seen this too. But my new favorite pastime seems to be swirl and Hologram spotting in other people's cars. My Mother in Law's car is badly swirled because she puts it through a car wash, it has a very specific swirl pattern. The 54 plate Merc I saw today near were I live needed a wash and was smeared with dirt, but I could still identify the large Hologram on its nearside rear quarter. Wonder how long that has been there.

Indeed, I wonder how many Black Magic vRS Octavias will be sitting in handover areas in dealerships around the country with imperfect paint. Dealers get away with it because of the ignorance of the public.

Think of it this way: Having a black car is like having a partner who has an affair.....but then confesses all to you. Buying a white car does not stop your partner having an affair, it just means you wont find out about it.

In Shakespeare's 'Othello', Othello himself considers this notion with Iago, albeit using different comparative language.

Paul

[Marwood]

You are not being picky.......

.......I think you'll find that they have not completed their contract of sale until they have delivered the goods in a condition the befits the description and reasonable expectation.

Thank you for that mate.

Your last point is interesting. However, CAB and Trading Standards have indicated that Rejection is not an option for me. I posted.some thing about this in the thread last week. I have, by not returning the car within 3 weeks 'accepted' the car warts an all. In other words by doing this I have accepted that the car is " in a condition that befite the description and reasonable expectation." However, if you can show me how to get round this I would be very grateful!

Paul.

[s3akr]

Thank you for that mate.

Your last point is interesting. However, CAB and Trading Standards have indicated that Rejection is not an option for me. I posted.some thing about this in the thread last week. I have, by not returning the car within 3 weeks 'accepted' the car warts an all. In other words by doing this I have accepted that the car is " in a condition that befite the description and reasonable expectation." However, if you can show me how to get round this I would be very grateful!

Paul.

I'm sure they know better than me. I do recall there being a clause of somesort where there is some form of acceptance by you if rejection does not occur within a reasonable time frame - I think it is two weeks. That said, you have rejected the condition of the car (I don't remember within what time frame) and in writing I believe, so surely that would have some sway ?

With Seat, I have heard of people contacting Seat UK with issues on cars and Seat UK getting involved in a very pro-active manner to resolve the issue (I'm on the seatcupra.net forums too). I don't see any reason why Skoda UK should be any different in resolving the issue and they would be worth contacting with the history of your complaint and dealings. This is not a complaint about the dealership, but more a request for their help in resolving the issues. They have more power and funding to seek alternative resolutions (ie a third party detailer) than a dealership may be prepared to do.

I hope you get it sorted out cos getting a new car is one of those exciting things that you don't want messed up as it can ruin the ownership. My black magic Leon didn't suffer these issues and it does look the business when its all cleaned up. Its nearly years old now with 35k on it and it shows every last tiny mark. It stays clean for about 2 days if I'm lucky.

[skodaw]

Marwood, I've been reading this thread because I've both previously owned a Black Magic Octavia(albeit a mk1) and have been a customer of Mitchells.

Any time I needed to approach them, I found Mitchells to be nothing less than totally professional in there dealings with me. As some people on here know, I've been in the motor trade for twenty years - straight from school - all of it within the VAG group.

I have seen problems like yours arrise from time to time -- more so in the last few years since the change to water based paints and the practise of the cars arriving from the factoy "Wrapped" in plastic.

The paintwork of new cars is inspected prior to leaving the factory - and would be refinished by hand to remove any blemish's -- or even partial or full respray if the quality was poor enough.

The fact that the refinishing is done by hand using rotory polishing machines is probably where your vehicles damaged was done -- either by an operator who was not very skilled at the job, or more likely using equiptment that should really have been replaced.

The wrapping that the cars come in can itself inflict marring in the paint when removed - especially if its been on the car a while -- it can be very difficult to remove and wont come away easily - quite often coming away from the paintwork in peices or releasing in sections like a roll of cellotape does, if removal is not done carefully it can leave some nasty marks -- but nothing that wont polish by hand -- no need for power tools.

I think your next course of action would be to speak direct with MARK Mitchell (not Mike!!) explain your situation, and ask if he will cover the cost for Ian @ finerdetails to deal with the paintwork -- I've seen loads of jobs that he's posted over on detailingworld and he has plenty of experience with the VAG Black Magic paint. Once he's dealt with it the paintwork will be in a much better condition - BUT I think you need to accept that VAG water based paints do mark quite easily - not just Black Magic but plenty of others -- Race blue for one. That said with carefull protection of the paint using the products that you have bought - you should be able to keep this to a minimum. Then hopefully you can begin to again enjoy the car.

As far as rejection, indeed the betterment clause does come along - so there would be a cost to yourself.

Finally from a motor trade point of view -- the way that you have gone about this will without doubt given you a better response than screaming and shouting in the showroom. Every dealer would like to have 100% happy customers -- unfortunately this can't always be the case.

Most of all I hope you manage to get an outcome that suits you -- wether that be paintwork sorted or refund or compensation MAKE SURE ITS WHAT YOU WANT & NOT WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE THINKS.

[Marwood]

s3akr, thanks for getting back to me on that. Nice car the Seat, have a friend who is keen on one and was looking to buy this weekend.

Dave, thanks for that interesting information and being a bit of a voice of reason. When I posted earlier this evening I was really at that point where I was ready to blow, just frustration.

Zdenka, told me about you when I ordered my car at Mitchells. I was considering a similar reg to you given our surnames are the same.

Perhaps you are right and Richard has done what he can, not blaming him. Will speak to Mark (Mikey ) on Monday re Iain.

Wardy, I still owe you!

Thanks again,

Paul.

[Wardy]

Just bringing myself upto date on this

I'd certainly go with contacting a more senior person at Mitchell's like Dave suggested, and getting Iain to sort the paint at Mitchell's expense. I think you've given them ample opportunity for them to sort it themselves!

Hang in there; you're going about things totally the right way I feel. Keep up the methodical approach

Steve

[motr]

Will post another link to another set of photos as soon as I have calmed down a bit. You can let me know if you think I'm being picky.

Paul

Paul, you are definately not being picky. You have let people who should know what they are doing have a go, and for whatever reason, they just haven't been able to sort it.

You've tried calm and polite, maybe a different approach is needed. You can be forceful and show that you are ****ed off without shouting and screaming - i've done it, so it does work.

I hope that you get compensated in a big way for this, because you deserve to be.

PS contact What Car? - they might be interested in helping out on this one.

[motr]

Thanks for the suggestion Mr. Grumpy,

Washing the car will have no effect on the hologram marks. It will remove the dirt but under the circumstances, I have no intention of washing the car.

Paul

Spot on, the last thing you want to do is give anyone a reason to say 'well, if you didn't do this and didn't do that......'

[s3akr]

As its Monday, I assume you'll be trying to get things sorted today.

The best of luck to you.

[Marwood]

Thanks for all those encouraging comments. As soon as I get some time today I will contact Mark's PA and ask to speak to him.

Due to the angle I park my car on my own drive the photos I posted on Saturday need bringing up to date. At my Mum and Dad's house on Sunday I was able to see the full extent of the markings on the bonet. They sretch lenghtwise along it, marking the runs of a buffer. rather unsightly. Both my Mum and Dad who are in their 80s could see the marks all over the car!

It appears that in correcting the errors in the paint the rest of the car has been polished in an atempt to get uniformity of finish. Sadly this has resulted in these new marks. I am kicking myself about this as when Iain inspected the car last week he forcefully told me NOT TO LET THEM TOUCH ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE DAMAGED AREAS OF THE CAR. Iain, even marked these with crosses on the paint thickness diagram he gave to me. However, I did not make this point clear enough to the dealer. I have paid the price for this. Iain was right about this as well.

My lovely car care products will be arriving over the next few days. I have two massive drying towels on order and some Poor Boys stuff coming as well including a nice limited edition shampoo with wax and a glossing detailing spray. Looks like I wont be able to use them for a while!

Will post again once I have spoken to Mark.

The BBC have already asked me if they can have the rights for this tale to turn in into a new version of 'Eldorado'. Not sure who they will get to play me yet!

Cheers,

Paul.

[FinerDetails]

Paul

I have your email, and shall call your this evening when I have time to discuss.

I've also looked through the pics you last captured of the car. Its great to see you now have defects on panels that did not require any work when I visited you last week. I am utterly shocked and totally lost for words at the overwhelming lack of quality you have had to endure.

Speak later today.

[Tom_vRS]

Bloody hell Marwood, what a drama.

My only advice would be to keep cool - you will get there with it as long as you are calm, reasonable and persistant.

All the best.

[Marwood]

Certainly a drama but not quite yet a crisis!

Sorry another long and convoluted post.

Mark's PA was very good and really wanted to help. She listened well and the action she promised to take was taken quickly. Thanks for that Julie.

I didn't get to speak to Mark. Richard the sales manager called me back. Mark had been told what was going on and was apparently keeping an eye on the situation. Indeed, Mark had intended to ring me this week to check if I was happy or not.

Richard was genuinely concerned about me being not happy. He spent considerable time trying to help me and I am grateful. Firstly, he asked me if I had noted the defects in the paint right away or if I had spotted them later on. I explained how I had seen some flaws but had intended to let them pass, taking the view that my car didn't need another polish until Iain detailed it for me. However, the full "horror" (in a Joseph Conrad stylee!) of the problem had not become apparent until the weekend: more of this later in the post.

Richard explained that he would be going back to Morris as the correction had not been done to my satisfaction. Morris would also no doubt want to see the fresh holograms. I have no issue with this postmortem and anyone is free to come and have a gander. To coin a popular song title from the 'hit parade'.....'The Marks Don't Lie'. Incidently, as an aside to this, by chance a 56 reg Octavia Tdi parked in our school carpark today. It doesn't belong to a member of staff, but it was supplied by Michell Skoda and it had Black Magic Paint. I took the opportunity to inspect it. No, not a hologram in sight, a few swirls, but the paint was fine. I took a couple of pics of it to compare to mine if I need to. Hope the owner doesn't mind. Our school is an Arts College and sitting beside the car in a van were some stage techicians, supplying lighting rigs etc. I felt I had to explain what I was doing and two of the guys went to look at my car parked nearby. by chance one had worked for Ford........spraying paint! He clocked the holograms, commented on how bad they are, "Christ look they are all over the front wing too!" (Made me feel better!) and then correctly diagnosed the cause. I took more pictures on my N95, can't be bothered to post them, bad enough having to look at the car every bloody day!

Sorry I digress. Anyway Richard was keen to have me as a happy customer and also keen to get Skoda UK involved. He had contacted them (well, they could help with costs).

Richard told me that he had spoken to a warranty assessor who thought, because Bentley are a part of VW, he could get my car into Bentley's "White Light Room". This would expose all the flaws it seems. Indeed a number of Bently workers, who can gain VW discounts have put their Skodas into it. Well, can't blame em really. As much as I am fascinated by all this it could be this is the dealership looking to see if Skoda UK will fit the bill, if it could be established I have dodgy factory paintwork and I sort of don't see how this will help resolve the faults that can clearly be seen now. Another opperative would then be having a go at my paint with no assurance it will be right at the end of it. It comes down to who does it and how much care I know they will invest...........

...........time for Iain Brown to step forward and back to a reason the paint defects perhaps did not show right away. If Morris used any 'fillers', which don't hang around to long in the rain we have been getting, then this could mean spotting the holgram's full glory didn't occur till later. However, I have no evidence to suggest Morris did use fillers as he was asked not to in writing (via the dealer) and I do not doubt Morris' intention to restore my car back to perfect. They tried, it went wrong. I would prefer to think it was the lighting conditions, which have for periods been excellent here on Wirral.

Iain has talked to me twice on the phone today for some considerable time. He had viewed the photos too. Iain is confident he can sort this and I am confident that he can do it. Iain explained exactly how he would go about it and the fact that he understood how careful he needed to be. The thing with Iain is that, talking to him, you get the odd feeling he has convinced himself that the car he is going to work on is actually his own car...which is nice. This is the only way I can quantify his passion and desire to help me. Iain has allowed me to have some feeling of control, well other than my excellent conversation with Trading Standards today. They were more than willing to check the whole matter out if I needed, but this would be highly impropper at this stage and counterproductive.

I have asked Richard if he will consider allowing Iain to sort the car. In principal, he has no issue with this but I think, (understanably protecting the dealership's financial position) he wants Skoda UK to become aquainted with the details. The might right it off to some customer retention/goodwill account or something. Not my issue.

Richard, is going to let me know tomorrow. I could have only one possible concern, raised by my Father and Richard: once I go third party, I have no comeback. Will check this all out tomorrow. However, and this is the key factor in all of this......I have spent time with Iain, I have seen his work and he is outstanding! Hence, my trust needs to go to what I know, rather to what I am told and to what I have no experience of. If Skoda have another crack there are no guarantees.

I just want it right.

When I stand back from this and look at how the dealership has treated me......I can't really complain. Well other than the obvious: selling me a duff car (they probably didn't notice it to be fair) and utterly cocking up the correction of the original Holograms. No they have tried to help and I thank them for this. However, I have reached a point where the best of intentions has failled to provide me with the car I spent my hard earned cash on.

Thanks Iain for all your help today.

No pressure on this one then mate

One last thing, all this detailed posting is affecting my life/work balance a bit. So I am sorry if I haven't been posting on other threads where others have important issues. I did write a long reply to your car dent issue Mater, but the computer at work logged me out and I lost it TWICE. Surffice it to say that type of thing really gets my back up!

Paul.

[Marwood]

Just a little update.....

Monday I phone the Dealer as per my last post. I waited till Thursday, then phoned them back.

Richard had spoken to Chris Daniels from Customer Service at Skoda UK. He was keen to get Chris to authorise any 3rd party work. In addition Richard felt this was important as he told me that even if another external attempt to correct my paint went wrong (which it wont!) I would still have some comeback with Skoda as the original marks were present at the time the car was supplied. I was rather pleased about this and I understand, from Richard's point, of view why he needs Skoda to "Come to the Party". Anyway Chris would need a full report to authorise the work, he needed to establish for Skoda Uk that the problem was a genuine problem with the paint and not just a picky customer. Richard also wanted Iain's phone number. Richard said he would telephone me within the next 24 hours. I made it clear I wanted Iain to do the work. Morris was not mentioned.

I spoke to Iain after this conversation who gave me lots of advice. I told him I had contacted 3M regarding 'Ultrafina' and the possibility that it could contain 'fillers'. He had a Google while I was on the phone to him and we both concluded there was a strong possibility it does. I am still waiting for 3M to get back to me. Iain was very kind and offered to 'ride shotgun' with me should my car require an assessor to view it. Iain, really has gone the extra mile with me over this. He is practical and down to earth, exactly what anyone in this situation needs!

Richard rang me at ten to six last night and left a message. I was in the pub with my work mates and it would not have been sensible of me to try and talk to him at that point! The message asked me to meet him and Morris at Morris' place tomorrow morning (Sat). This was an odd situation as Morris needed to see the new damage to my car for himself and given his relationship with the dealer he was to confirm that the car was suitable for Skoda UK to authorise a third part to correct my paint. It should be pointed out that Richard trusts Morris and he has done loads of cars for the dealership, including Lexus. There have never been any problems with his work and I was the first customer to have not been satisfied.

I met Richard at Midday. The sun was shinning, but I had my laptop and photographs with me just in case. Before we met Morris there was the opportunity for me to show Richard the marks on the nearside door pillars, rear quarter and bonnet. I drove Richard to Roberts' Refinishing. He's a nice chap Richard and we do both want the samething. He needs to jump through a couple of Skoda 'hoops' but he does want to see me happy. I know he has no personal objection to me using Iain, in the interest of my happiness.

I don't want to go into alot of detail about my meeting with Morris. Understandably he didn't say alot. He asked me if the car had been polished in any way since his lads had worked on it. I confirmed it hadn't even been washed. Moris took a polishing cloth to remove some smears and viewed the holograms, I pointed them out as we viewed the offside in the sunlight. I appologised to him for me bringing it to him. I know this sounds odd but, he was really really pi***d off and this seemed the only thing I could say. He didn't reply to my apology as the three of us walked from the car to his office. We viewed the photos on my laptop. It wasn't the greatest of experiences.

Morris will be giving someone a massive 'telling off' on Monday. As an ex manager myself I know how it feels when you have to deal at the sharp end with another persons errors. Morris was very fair about the matter and it isnt his personal fault that someone he employs has made such a **** up. As I say it has never happened before.

Morris thought it was appropriate for a detailer to have a go. He said this to Richard as we left.

Richard reassured me and said he would be contacting Chris Daniels on Monday. He would get back to me as soon as he could.

Cheers,

Paul.

[skodaw]

Look's like you may finally get this matter resolved once and for all. I'm looking forward to seeing the final results once Iain has worked his magic.

[Tom_vRS]

Blimey - what a "kerfuffle"

All the best with it Marwood - you will get there with it, I'm sure.

I'd also like to say again how impressed I am with Mitchells!!!

[Marwood]

I will certainly try to do a write up with pics.

Yes Tom, the Dealer seems to have been very good indeed from what I have said so far.

It's all about people and relationships. Individual people in the front line make or break the reputation of the larger corporate entity. I used to be a bank cashier in London and a sales person in retail. It was true there and it is also true in teaching. People make the difference to the positive or negative experience of others.

Thanks for the support gents,

Paul.

[oilburninnut]

Thank you for that mate.

Your last point is interesting. However, CAB and Trading Standards have indicated that Rejection is not an option for me. I posted.some thing about this in the thread last week. I have, by not returning the car within 3 weeks 'accepted' the car warts an all. In other words by doing this I have accepted that the car is " in a condition that befite the description and reasonable expectation." However, if you can show me how to get round this I would be very grateful!

Paul.

i rejected a car and had it replaced after 11 months my first fabia vrs,i think it depends on the problems but it is possible with a bit of work,pm me and i will share all[i can't really tell you over a public forum]

[Marwood]

DRUM ROLL PLEASE.......

........Richard kindly rang me yesterday evening. Skoda have approved the work to be done by Iain which is excellent news

I can have the work done at home or Richard will free up a 'bay' for the whole day at the dealership if I prefer this or the weather is bad. This is excellent work on the part of Richard the sales manager and I am very grateful to him for the cosiderable time he has clearly had to spend on all this and his speedy action. It is fair to mention that Skoda took the view that, regardless of exact cause of the fault, they wanted me as a customer to be satisfied with my car. This was very pleasing to hear!!!

Iain spoke to me at lenght again yesterday even though he appeared to be involved in some sort of 'equestrian show jumping event' at the time of my call. He has also spent some considerable time on this, over and above the call of duty!

We both thought it would be cool to use the Skoda dealership for the work....for several reasons. anyway It is now just a case of when Iain can fit the vRS into his really hectic schedual. we are looking at a weekday around the end of the month.

Thank you Richard and Skoda for agreeing to what I wanted. And thank you to Iain for working so well with me and the dealership.

Back 'o' the net!

Paul.