Marwood's Paintwork Problems (Disaster!)

[andy2407]

Sounds like you are covering all bases Paul. Hope you get sorted. It makes a lot of sense to get some paint thickness reaings beore the work is carried out, and the input from a professional detailer will give you another view on things.

[motr]

Are Skoda UK aware of what is happening?

[Marwood]

motr,

A very good question.....I haven't told them yet and I would doubt the dealer has. Would this make a big difference now?.....In the hurley burley of work/life/research/dealing with the dealer (with them being so helpful an all (!) ), I didn't get round to talking to them or copying my letters. However if I need to, the following will prove rather interesting.

Someone really should be getting a 'shouting at' for what I discovered today!

At the moment I feel like I am that John Merrick chap.....not in looks!.......but because I keep saying that "everyone has been so nice to me". Today's massive thanks and utter respect for his skills and outstanding help goes to Iain from Finer Details.. Just brilliant.

He drove from Rochdale today to the Wirral in order to make a time slot I had given him. Impressive to say the least, especially as he drove back right afterwards. Iain then spent around an hour or so with me. Checking the car carefully, taking paint depth readings, and offering great advice. Just brilliant.

Right this is what he found, strap yerselves in:

1) The nearside of the car has a variety of paint depths. The front wing has an average depth of around 115 Microns, the front passenger door also has this average reading. The rear quarter has an average reading of 110 Microns, however the paint thins (a ‘low spot’) to only 98 Microns around the top of the wheel arch. This data may prove helpful when it is worked on tomorrow by Morris when he begins his work, so as to avoid any further thinning of the paint in this area. A comparison was made with the same area on the Offside of the car. The reading here was 110 Microns. Hence a difference of 12 Microns:confused: Somene has been working too hard there!. Both Iain and I were very concerned to see that the rear passenger door on this nearside has a thickness of 170 Microns. :eek: This appears to suggest that paint has been added (‘Blown’) into this area in order to mask an existing paint defect. I would be interested to know who authorised this work to my car, as it was done without my knowledge. As a comparison readings were taken from the Offside of the car. Here the average paint depth is around 115 Microns, leaving the reading from the Nearside passenger door at odds with the rest of the car. I find it hard to believe that the Skoda Factory would produce such a wide discrepancy during its own painting process, but exact blame would be difficult to establish. Still very, very useful information from Iain about the history of my 'new' vRS.

2) Hologram marks were identified by Iain clearly visible on the Offside of the car. They were easy to spot in the sunlight during Iain's inspection. It appears that at some point before handover the paintwork had been damaged leaving ‘buffer trails’ which I had noticed but paid less attention to due to that hurley burley thing I mentioned earlier. These marks would have probably have occurred at the same time as the original Hologram marks in the car, the original marks that the dealer tried to correct. I felt it was only fair that work was undertaken to this side of the car as well as the nearside to correct this damage and bring the car to showroom condition. As a result of Iain's advice the dealer tonight agreed, without breaking sweat, to attend to these, instructing Morris accordingly. He should get a copy of Iain's findings and a diagram of the car (provided by Iain) of the car marked with paint thickness readings. I asked the dealer to do this.

3) Iain was also kind enough to run through a possible corrective process with me to correct both sides of the car. This involved appropriate products, procedures (including correct washing/preparation of the car and buffer pads and rotary polisher speeds to be used) and finishing/waxing and sealing. He also recommended no ‘fillers’ be used and that I be allowed to inspect the paintwork properly before it is returned to me, preferably in conditions that allow the use of a hand held halogen light source. I tactfully did not tell Morris all this, not my place and he does know what he is doing, (from things I bounced of Iain). However, he will know I know!

Armed with this lot, I dropped the vRS off at the dealer to be sorted at Roberts Refurbishment. (I have been lent a Roomster, and it's actually quite nice).

Not alot the dealer could say, after I went through it all (which I had placed in writing, baring in mind the advice Wardy gave me too about wording). Passive submission seemed the order of the day but it could be seen as the dealer being friendly, flexible and listening to what their customer wants. Depends on perspective.

I did of course put in writing that, I reserved the right to peruse the matter further with the dealer, should the repair not be to my satisfaction.

Will let you know how it looks tomorrow.

Regards,

Paul.

[VRStu]

Lets just hope there is a positive resolution to this Paul.

What some dealers do seem to forget is that you have probably put in excess of 17k over the counter. For them it's just another car, to you it's an investment and your pride an joy.

[Marwood]

So right there Stu, I made that exact point in my letter today.

".........I hope you will appreciate why I have taken the above measures to secure the long term value and desirability of my car. I feel

[motr]

Marwood, yes, I believe you should advise Skoda UK what is happening.

I must say, after reading that post above, I would be on the verge of losing my cool with the dealer and demanding a new car.

Someone has messed up big time and you deserve what you paid for. NOTHING LESS. Honestly mate, i'd be absolutely fuming.

[Yeti_Man]

Ive been keeping an eye on this thread each day and I have to say, I personally would have rejected the vehicle asap.

BUT, I feel sure that Marwoods cool and proffessional attitude to the whole thing bodes very well indeed.

Good luck in getting the issue fully resolved.

Lee

[Marwood]

I arrived at the dealership today to collect my car. By chance Richard the Sales Manager was just about to go to Roberts Refinishing (sorry, I apologise, not

[fluffmeister]

I think the paint quality on some Octy's is a bit suspect, Iain detailed my octy earlier on this year THREAD

THe paint depth guage readings are not so good as you can see from the picture of the findings, paint is much thinner as it approaches the ends of the door skins for example.

[Marwood]

Yeah I read this thread. I remember thinking how great your car was, but at the time I didn't appreciate the real significance of depth readings at the time. Little did I know!!!

From what I gather the readings on your vRS and mine are not uncommon. Even the most respected of manufacturers seem to bare these little 'historical clues'. Only there if you look, or find the need to look later on.

How is your vRS at the moment, it was unwell, engine coils and their apparent scarcity?? I didn't follow through on the story properly.

Thanks for the link fluffmeister!

Paul.

[Wardy]

The car looks ace, but not 100% perfect. One picture shows a Hologram missed on the Driver

[Chris197]

Been following this thread with interest, great to see you have the car back .

Shame its not the 100% job you wanted but if you are happy thats all that matters.

By the why I take my hat off to you for staying so calm and not giving in to the urge to knock someone the Feck out, you're a better man than I:thumbup:

Now go and drive it until the tyres fall off:D

[FinerDetails]

good to see the progress you've been able to make, and at lkast the nightmare you have been travelling through appears to be coming to an end!

Start to enjoy the car now!

[motr]

Again, I'm glad progress continues to be made. I have to take issue with the above statement though. If it's not 100%, get it sorted. It damn well should be perfect - it's a new car! :grumpy: :rant:

Steve

I have to agree with you Steve. No disrespect Marwood, but you are making life very easy for the dealer.

A brand new car should be 100 percent perfect, whether it be paint, brakes, wheels.....anything, if it isn't you deserve a new car or your money back.

What happens when you come to sell the car? A potential buyer might be able to pick things up. You could, in theory, lose out big time. And of course, you will always know things are not quite right. That would drive me insane.

I admire you for the way you have handled this whole saga, but I would not settle for anything less than perfect. You might aswell have purchased a second hand car mate.

[Tom_vRS]

As Marwood has said - his dealer has been very professional and helpful. If he is happy that after his professional detail by Finer Details the car will be perfect, then so be it.

I have to say, rejection would have been in my mind the whole time - if the dealer had of slipped up at any stage then it would have been rejected I'm sure.

[Stuart_J]

Re paint thickness, cars are often repaired at the factory if not up to standard, our Superb has had at least one side completely resprayed & we only found this when some damage to the car was repaired.

Personaly I wouldnt worry about it, at least it means Skoda have some form of quality control checks & are proactive in fixing any small problems. If you have more paint its theoretically more protection. If you want to you can dig deep & Skoda somewhere have a record of everything that has happened to your car. Personally I wouldnt worry about it.

Despite what others are saying I think the dealer has performed correctly & has done his best to remedy the situation. I think there is no way you would end up with a replacement car. In law as long as the dealer quickly remedies the problem you would find it hard to reject it. If the car was still not to your satisfaction he would then I believe be able to respray the offending panels, if as it appears the car is 99% correct I would accept it rather than go the respray route as that will only lead to more hassle, trim & rubbers have to come off, glass might have to come out & as good as many spray shops are the paint will probably be 100% but you run the risk of rattles, squeeks & many more trips to the dealer.

Im sure the detailer will be able to sort any little niggles. If you need a safeguard just politely write to the dealer thanking them for all their efforts but point out that there are still a couple of niggles but you are hoping your detailer can sort them. If the detailer then spots more problems you have a route back to the dealer

[Tom_vRS]

I agree completely with Stuart's very sensible post above.

[sworrall]

glad youve got it mostly sorted to your satisfaction. now its in the hands of iain it should see a trouble free life! I was at Mitchells on Monday and wondered if id spot you there. A noise from the front of the car turned out to be a severely on the way out bearing :eek: . As youve found Mitchells were very good and tried their best but i had to go to another dealer to get it fixed due to them being on back order and the other dealer luckily had one in stock.

I did notice a new silver VRS in the "to be picked up" bay with the salesman going over it. He checked all the paintwork and spotted a ding in the door edge. I cheekily eavesdropped as he phoned the customer to give him the good news but that they would be getting it fixed ASAP. better the salesman to find it rather than the customer

[motr]

Despite what others are saying I think the dealer has performed correctly & has done his best to remedy the situation.

I don't think anyone has said differently. Some delaers are better than others. When Wings in Peterborough fitted roof rails to my car (Fabia Estate), some monkey put a 1" scratch in my car after, I presume, he had an accident with a tool. Not only that, but I had water coming in the car because they totally bodged the job.

It took 3 goes to get the roof bars right and they said they would sort out the scratch, that was very noticeable. When I went back to pick the car up, it was exactly the same.

In the end, I demanded to see the manager, I was polite, but fuming and in the end, it was sorted. But at first, they thought I was over reacting, which made me even more ****ed off.

To my mind, some dealers do bend over backwards for you, but at times, you feel they will do their absolute minumum to please you.

[Stuart_J]

I don't think anyone has said differently. Some delaers are better than others. When Wings in Peterborough fitted roof rails to my car (Fabia Estate), some monkey put a 1" scratch in my car after, I presume, he had an accident with a tool. Not only that, but I had water coming in the car because they totally bodged the job.

It took 3 goes to get the roof bars right and they said they would sort out the scratch, that was very noticeable. When I went back to pick the car up, it was exactly the same.

In the end, I demanded to see the manager, I was polite, but fuming and in the end, it was sorted. But at first, they thought I was over reacting, which made me even more ****ed off.

To my mind, some dealers do bend over backwards for you, but at times, you feel they will do their absolute minumum to please you.

Sorry, The comment was aimed more at those who were implying whatever the dealer did it wasnt enough & you should reject the car.

[motr]

Sorry, The comment was aimed more at those who were implying whatever the dealer did it wasnt enough & you should reject the car.

Well, whilst I think the dealer has obviously tried to help, the fact remains, through whatever circumstances, Marwoods car is damaged.

Putting up with it should not be an option imo.

I know it's not our car and I am only talking as if it were mine, but I feel genuinely sorry for the guy.

[Marwood]

Sorry I missed you Sworrall, would have been nice to see you.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, it seems there are some differing opinions which I understand.

This is why I doing what I am doing. This is not a rational or a kop out. I am being careful about the future of my car.

Firstly, let me reveal what the CAB and Trading Standards told me. They said by all means press for a rejection, but you are not going to get one!!! Trading Standards advised me to put everything in writing and to allow the dealership 2 or 3 attempts to fix the car. If I wasn't happy my best chance was to push for a partial refund. This is still an option open to me. Apparently the 'rules' of 'acceptance' mean that I had 3 weeks from handover to reject the car. Sadly, I did not do this. Furthermore, there are rules concerning something called 'betterment'. I have done around 2500 miles in my car. If the car was replaced I would be getting a 'better' deal and this is deemed as unacceptable. Hence rejection was not really an option open to me.

Kicking off about it on a Saturday afternoon at the dealership would have made a nice sideshow, but made matters worse in my opinion. The dealer would have become very obstructive and I would have ended up going down the legal route a right pain in the neck and I wouldn't be getting a new car By remaining reasonable, as it has been said, I have shown my willingness to work with the dealer, this makes my case all the stronger. Indeed, I said to Richard in the car yesterday, "I bet you lot hate me" (I said it as a joke). No, he said not at all. You have bought a new car from us. It should be right and we want to make it right. I don't blame you. This is only a paraphrasing of what he said but he said it with some conviction. He added later that my approach had got results, if I had caused a 'scene' it would not have worked. I don't think Richard is going to thank me for telling you this but most cars don't go to Roberts Refinishing if they have problems. Lexus cars do, but there are other options open to them when correcting paint problems that occur. Of course this could have been a blagg, but he did name names. Sorry Richard, but in this instance I am defending your good intentions.

I know Richard will have no problem if I go back to him. He told me he expected me to go away and check the car (!). He indicated I could take my time, and that if I wasn't happy then he would try again. He meant this.....well he knew I would be checking. However, if I stick the car back in it means more messing with my paintwork and I don't want this. The small holograms in the driver's side are quite difficult to see. I only saw them because I was really looking for them and I now know what to look for. The picture makes the mark on the driver's door look bad, but it isn't compared to what was there.

Ok, I know it is there and I'll think it over, maybe I will see Richard again. But it might be better to play a 'longer game' regarding the condition of my car. Iain will get these marks out dead easily and if I am going to employ him anyway then it seems better to have the car only polished the once. If I got back to the dealer, they will get them out but this will add an extra polish. In addition it is possible that in correcting one problem another could be caused. It could, even with the best of intentions, come back much worse. Plus I know exactly what Iain will do and how he will do it.....he has told me I can watch the process and he will teach me how to do things for myself. This seems a much more sensible route. Also if I inform Richard about the minor defects on the Driver's side I have the option of billing the dealership for the work Iain carries out. I discussed this with Iain on Monday and actually mentioned it to Richard in passing yesterday. I wanted to see his reaction. This is not a reflection on the dealer or Morris, it just seems more sensible to do it this way.

Also if it hadn't been for Iain I would now have a car with a perfect nearside, where the original damage was, but an untouched driver's side which was really bad. You should have seen the holograms in it once Iain had pointed out their tell tale 'buffer trails'. To get the car back in the condition it is in, if I am phlosophical is a bonus. This is my longwinded way of saying that I want Iain to do this work. He wont bugger my paint up. Get him to tell you the story about the bonnet of a new Porsche and the dealers excellent intentions but poor end results (68 Microns!).

Having said all this, the real victory is for this forum. Without the support, encouragement, advice and backing of all of you I would never have had the confidence to do this. I never felt on my own at any stage. I am a lazy so and so and you have motivated me......I have worked really hard on this. Also the fact that Briskoda exists and is flourishing means that dealerships have to be careful what they do. Mitchells know I am on here and they know that people who buy cars from them read what is said and take notice. If I was on my own then, well, it would be easier to get rid of me and my problems, that's not just car dealers, that's often human nature. Honestly I think they have tried to do the right thing by me and have been pretty supportive and clearly spent some time on my problem. Richard said he wanted me to be happy. I think he meant this, but no one wants bad press so it is because of this forum ( and the dealers attitude to be fair) that the problem has been resolved at this point.

If when I wash the car next week, and have had further time to consider my options, I am still a bit niggled by those minor marks I still have lots of options and the dealer will still be working with me.

Paul.

[sworrall]

Sorry I missed you Sworrall, would have been nice to see you.

same here

If when I wash the car next week, and have had further time to consider my options, I am still a bit niggled by those minor marks I still have lots of options and the dealer will still be working with me.

just make sure you dont use a sponge

[motr]

Kicking off about it on a Saturday afternoon at the dealership would have made a nice sideshow, but made matters worse in my opinion. The dealer would have become very obstructive and I would have ended up going down the legal route a right pain in the neck and I wouldn't be getting a new car By remaining reasonable, as it has been said, I have shown my willingness to work with the dealer, this makes my case all the stronger. Indeed, I said to Richard in the car yesterday, "I bet you lot hate me" (I said it as a joke). No, he said not at all. You have bought a new car from us. It should be right and we want to make it right. I don't blame you. This is only a paraphrasing of what he said but he said it with some conviction. He added later that my approach had got results, if I had caused a 'scene' it would not have worked.

Paul.

Paul, I think it depends on the dealer mate. I think if I had been happy to accept the little help I was offered when the Wings employee screwed my fabia (see above), I honestly don't think they would have done the job right.

It was only because I demanded that they rectify the problem in the only way that would clear it up (respray) that they did it. Otherwise I think they would have been happy to just let me drive away with a 1" scratch (deep) on my old car.

Whatever has happened, I truly wish you teh best of luck mate and only hope you get to be finally happy with your great car.

Cheers

Wayne

[andy2407]

Having said all this, the real victory is for this forum. Without the support, encouragement, advice and backing of all of you I would never have had the confidence to do this. I never felt on my own at any stage. I am a lazy so and so and you have motivated me......I have worked really hard on this. Also the fact that Briskoda exists and is flourishing means that dealerships have to be careful what they do. Mitchells know I am on here and they know that people who buy cars from them read what is said and take notice. If I was on my own then, well, it would be easier to get rid of me and my problems, that's not just car dealers, that's often human nature. Honestly I think they have tried to do the right thing by me and have been pretty supportive and clearly spent some time on my problem. Richard said he wanted me to be happy. I think he meant this, but no one wants bad press so it is because of this forum ( and the dealers attitude to be fair) that the problem has been resolved at this point.

Well said that man!

Really admire the way you (and the dealer) have handled this.

And from the pics I have to say the car looks impressive.

As others have said, now is the time to get out and enjoy it

And get yourself along to a couple of the Brisky meets

All the best

Andy

PS Cant resist a plug for Freedom membership - a perfect way to show your appreciation for the Brisky community