Octy Vrs - which new tyres?

[djgritt]

I'm finding the Michelin PS2's i had fitted on the front on Saturday a MASSIVE improvement over the Pilot Primacy's i had on there.

Now i just need to wear the rears down...

[bahnstormer vrs]

I'm finding the Michelin PS2's i had fitted on the front on Saturday a MASSIVE improvement over the Pilot Primacy's i had on there.

Now i just need to wear the rears down...

Put them on the front!

In any case; most (reputable) tyre dealers will recommend, if you are only putting a pair of tyres on, to put new tyres on the back.

It is a case of giving more grip on the back in 'extreme' or 'panic' situations that will result in understeer, which most drives will cope with better than oversteer with a resultant spin and likely a bigger accident. :eek:

[gregozedobe]

Put them on the front!

In any case; most (reputable) tyre dealers will recommend, if you are only putting a pair of tyres on, to put new tyres on the back.

It is a case of giving more grip on the back in 'extreme' or 'panic' situations that will result in understeer, which most drives will cope with better than oversteer with a resultant spin and likely a bigger accident. :eek:

I'm not sure I agree. I know this was the conventional wisdom back when most cars were rear wheel drive and had neither ABS nor ESP (and I'm old enough to have driven, but young enough to remember cars from those days ), but car technology has moved on a long, long way from there.

For a modern FWD car with both ABS and ESP I think I could mount a persuasive case for putting your best tyres on the front, where most of the cornering and braking force is needed. This would better help you avoid the 'extreme' or 'panic' situations because the better traction (and thus better steering and braking) from the good tyres on the front (along with the assistance from ABS and ESP) would prevent the car from getting into an oversteering situation (and subsequent spin).

Remember your average FWD car has about 60% of it's static weight on the front wheels, and under braking it is an even bigger %age. Do you really want your worst tyres on these front wheels that are doing all the braking work ?

What do others think ? Sometimes it is good to challenge "conventional wisdom" and see if it actually still applies or has been out-moded by advances in the field.

Is anyone aware of this theory actually being put to the test (ie good tyres on the front vs good tyres on the back) with a modern FWD car with both ABS and ESP , say on a wet skidpan and slalom course ?

I know that these days a lot of cars are actually faster (and more predictable) around corners with ESP engaged compared with it switched off.

JMHO, but I'm interested in the views of others.

[ScoobyChris]

JMHO, but I'm interested in the views of others.

I agree with you entirely and on a FWD car will always fit my best tyres to the front because they are the tyres that can help me put down power, brake or steer most effectively which should put me in a better position to get out of trouble than having to rely on a pair of non-driven, non-steering wheels!

FWIW, no tyre fitter I've used has ever insisted or even suggested I put new tyres on the rear, despite booklets in the waiting room promoting it.

Chris

[bahnstormer vrs]

I'm not sure I agree. I know this was the conventional wisdom back when most cars were rear wheel drive and had neither ABS nor ESP (and I'm old enough to have driven, but young enough to remember cars from those days ), but car technology has moved on a long, long way from there.

For a modern FWD car with both ABS and ESP I think I could mount a persuasive case for putting your best tyres on the front, where most of the cornering and braking force is needed. This would better help you avoid the 'extreme' or 'panic' situations because the better traction (and thus better steering and braking) from the good tyres on the front (along with the assistance from ABS and ESP) would prevent the car from getting into an oversteering situation (and subsequent spin).

Remember your average FWD car has about 60% of it's static weight on the front wheels, and under braking it is an even bigger %age. Do you really want your worst tyres on these front wheels that are doing all the braking work ?

What do others think ? Sometimes it is good to challenge "conventional wisdom" and see if it actually still applies or has been out-moded by advances in the field.

Is anyone aware of this theory actually being put to the test (ie good tyres on the front vs good tyres on the back) with a modern FWD car with both ABS and ESP , say on a wet skidpan and slalom course ?

I know that these days a lot of cars are actually faster (and more predictable) around corners with ESP engaged compared with it switched off.

JMHO, but I'm interested in the views of others.

I agree with your sentiment (my first dozen or so cars were RWD, IIRC ) and this was the thinking 5 - 10 years ago; it has now gone full circle with new on the back being de rigour.

Another reason for new on the back; is otherwise you'll easily finish up with 8-10 year old tyres on the back that are still not worn out as they are doing no 'work' but the rubber (as a compound) is completely shot.

[Tomo1971]

Have a look at:

Tyre Safety : New Tyres Should Go On The Rear

Steve

[gregozedobe]

Have a look at:

Tyre Safety : New Tyres Should Go On The Rear

Steve

Thanks for that Steve. What is your personal opinion ?

I remain unconvinced, as going by the amount of wheel twirling shown it appears ESP was either not fitted or switched off for this test, and crucially no wet braking testing was shown.

I regard wet braking as even more important than wet cornering, and I am certain that having good tyres on the front (of a car with modern ABS) will give better braking than putting them on the rear. Certainly in my experience I've had to brake hard to avoid someone (more accurately, some cretin) more often than I've had to make a sudden swerve around someone or something.

So for me the debate is still open.

[vRSLen]

I am due new rubber soon, so it looks like F1's. My current setup

feels like driving an auto, with speed picking up eventually

[Tomo1971]

Thanks for that Steve. What is your personal opinion ?

TBH, im not a real speed freak, (especially where corners are concerned) so I wouldnt be the best one to pass opinion!

I can see both sides of the arguments.

Maybe as a normal driver then having the better tyres on the rear would be safer as a slide would be easier to control as the very sexy VHB showed.

But, maybe a more enthusuastic and confident driver that can handle a car very well would get greater grip from the better tyres on the front as they can detect and react to the slip far better than a more normal driver.

Does that make sense?

Would it not be better to rotate the tyres in a way that all 4 were equal(ish) and then change all 4 at the same time. This would put equal grip on all corners and would hopefully see to a better discount at the dealers and work out cheaper in the long run.

The tyres on my old "car" had done 40,000 miles and still had 8mm of tread left on them......... not so sure if I will get that out of the RE050's!!

Steve

[grobster]

I'm finding the Michelin PS2's i had fitted on the front on Saturday a MASSIVE improvement over the Pilot Primacy's i had on there.

Now i just need to wear the rears down...

The only good thing about The Michelin Primacy's is that they are hard wearing......if you manage to keep the car on the road log enough to benefit from that...LOL. Other than that I would rate them at about 4 out of 10 for all other aspects of their perormance.

:thumbdwn:

These are not cheap to buy, so put them at the bottom of your list of choices. Unfortunately they are fitted as standard to a lot of lease cars, due to the hard wearing characteristics.

:thumbdwn:

[FTM]

bah

I look like I'm going to need another set of fronts soon

I have gone through my set of ps2's in about 8000 miles!

[TigerSteve]

Been viewing the forum for a while and have had my vrs fsti for just under two week (06 plate). Will be placing an order for x4 new tyres soon and to me the general concensus is that for a 'cheaper' tyre I won't go far wrong with the Falken FK452's (18"rim)

I can get them for just under £300 all inclusive fitted I think this is a decent price - agree?

[bahnstormer vrs]

Been viewing the forum for a while and have had my vrs fsti for just under two week (06 plate). Will be placing an order for x4 new tyres soon and to me the general concensus is that for a 'cheaper' tyre I won't go far wrong with the Falken FK452's (18"rim)

I can get them for just under £300 all inclusive fitted I think this is a decent price - agree?

Not bad! Certainly of the cheaper/budget tyres Falkens are the ones. Mid range - Goodyear or Vredestein. Top range - Michelins.

Pays your money and takes your choice!!

[cheezemonkhai]

I'd say that the 452 outperform many `mid range` and `top range`as you put it tyres.

Certainly I'd take the 452 over anything goodyear and would probably place them more in the mid range than budget tyre category. Then again I'd say you were paying a lot for the name with Goodyears too.

The 452 is in my opinion on par with the Pilot Exalto 2 tyres in the same size on the octy, and this comes from me driving on both types.

[ScoobyChris]

I can get them for just under £300 all inclusive fitted I think this is a decent price - agree?

Yes! Mine were £321.52 for 17"s (205/50/17) and a 4-wheel alignment check.

Chris

[vRS Ian]

Glad to read that the Michelin Premacy tyres are not the best. I've never had a set of tyres last so long, 35,000 miles and counting on a TDi vRS. I beginning to wonder if I'll break the driveshafts / diff / gearbox before they wear out, or the traction control lamp on the dash....

I hope gripper tyres will cure the 'axle tramp' that I currently get. especially at this time of year.

[bahnstormer vrs]

I hope gripper tyres will cure the 'axle tramp' that I currently get. especially at this time of year.

No they won't; if anything they will make it worse.

[Crasher]

Yes, more grip will make it worse. The only way to tame it is a stiffer lower gearbox reaction mount bush.

[vRS Ian]

Yes, more grip will make it worse. The only way to tame it is a stiffer lower gearbox reaction mount bush.

Is that something the dealer will do under warranty if I moan about it? It does spoil the otherwise good car for me somewhat.

I have noticed I don't get the problem when on the grippy surfaces that are laid at junctions etc these days - hence the thought grippier tyres wold do the same.

[Crasher]

No, it is a design fault, common to Golf 4 and 5 platforms. Powerflex offer a bush insert (a sod to fit) that does tame the tramp but not cure it and there is an NVH downside.

[vRS Ian]

OK, new tyres now on, and used in more than ice and snow now.

Moving from rock hard Mich Pilot Primacy to Conti Sport Contact 3's have GREATLY reduced the axle tramp - the opposite to what has been written above which I'm relieved about.

I did have it down as something for the dealer to look at on the service, but I took it off the (short) list.

The new grippier tyres mean that the wheels don't spin so easily so the axle tramp doesn't occur in 'normal' driving. You can still get it, but it's a very rare occasion now, and I think the breakaway characteristics of the Conti's also help.

Whether the rear Mich tyres will ever wear out is a thought to ponder over... and there's no way they're going onto the front to wear them out faster!

[solwood]

Asymetrico price quoted on page 1 is ny the best I have seen

Could you share where you got that deal? PM sent in case cannot post on open forum

Cheers

Gary

Edited 18 February, 2009 by solwood
posted in wrong thread

[Ciderspace]

For the ignorant amongst us, whats "axel tramp"? Now I'm wondering if I have this on my TDi but don't even know it!

[vRSy]

ill second that, i was wandering what that was

[vRSy]

is axle tramp like wheel hop caused by the engine moving?