I wonder how these 40mph wonders pass driving tests. When I did my test it was all about getting up to speed, but not going over the speed limit and driving safely. My understanding is that doing 40 in a clear NSL dual carriageway = fail because you're not getting up to speed.

Some old gits never took tests, just jumped in a jeep 'during the war' and didn't have to

Although you have to remember the number on a stick is a limit and not a target and does not necessarily represent a safe speed. Is it safe for someone who struggles to do 40mph on an NSL to go faster? Is it safe for someone to do 40mph and frustrate and anger the people following her? Who knows.

The biggest problem in my eyes is not people going too slowly, but the "road safety" bods armed with their white paint who insist on double solid white lining every potential overtaking place, preventing those who want to travel faster overtaking, and resulting in a 40mph procession of cars around the country side.

Chris

The biggest problem in my eyes is not people going too slowly, but the "road safety" bods armed with their white paint who insist on double solid white lining every potential overtaking place, preventing those who want to travel faster overtaking, and resulting in a 40mph procession of cars around the country side.

Went down to Norfolk last weekend and first hour or so I was there I had two cars overtake myself, two cars behind - and the precession of 4 cars in front of me - on a single carriageway with double whites, just before a corner (in one maneuver). Seems this doesn't deter some people

Although you have to remember the number on a stick is a limit and not a target and does not necessarily represent a safe speed. Is it safe for someone who struggles to do 40mph on an NSL to go faster? Is it safe for someone to do 40mph and frustrate and anger the people following her? Who knows.

The biggest problem in my eyes is not people going too slowly, but the "road safety" bods armed with their white paint who insist on double solid white lining every potential overtaking place, preventing those who want to travel faster overtaking, and resulting in a 40mph procession of cars around the country side.

Chris

*cough* A31 near Alresford *cough*

What really pi***es me off is the "mother" car driver. I shall explain....There is a 20mph speed limit in my village where countless children have been given a royal "did not see you" scenario and have been injured.

So why do these "mothers" think that once they are at school you can drive 40mph and right up your *** in a 20mph speed limit???.

I ride a motorbike and love speed, I have my car remapped and it is very pokey but when the speed limit says 40 or 30 on an urban area I always stick to that speed.

All of the previous posts I do concur that you will alway get one right up your *** when you stick to 30.

Most peoples house's are in a 30 limit for a reason after all but it is also a great benefit to your VRs if you drive within the speed limit and before you get home leave it idle whilst you get your stuff out of the car.

Just my 2$

Quite agree. 20, 30 and 40 limits are there for a purpose. As for the rest..:D

Number 10 in the top ten reasons for people failing the UK driving test is inappropriate speed - driving too slowly or being hesitant at junctions or in meeting situtations.

I have a constant battle of wills with pupils who believe that driving slowly is safer than driving at the limit.

They usually waste a test because they become very safe drivers during the test. Driving at 10mph below the limit, stopping at every junction and puting the handbrake on, just to be extra safe.

Its really dangerous as people start taking silly risks to overtake.

"must get past the learner, even if I die in the process"

One of the best quotes I remember form my driving instructor (LGV, not car) was: -

You should travel at the speed limit, IF ITS CLEAR AND SAFE TO DO SO

And I agree. If its wet and foggy, and you can only see 20m in front, then 60 in a NSL is just stupid.

BUT, if its dry with good visibility, and little traffic, then get up to speed ASAP and enjoy the drive.

Although you have to remember the number on a stick is a limit and not a target and does not necessarily represent a safe speed. Is it safe for someone who struggles to do 40mph on an NSL to go faster? Is it safe for someone to do 40mph and frustrate and anger the people following her? Who knows.

I see speed limits as something that needs to apply to the incapable be that car/driver/both to the well equipped driver again car/driver/both, again weather plays a part and that it could be a nice sunny day to a wet and windy one.

So in that case (person A) an older car driven by an older driver (slower reactions etc) should still be safe in a 60 doing sixty, if the car is MOT'd and they have a valid driving licence then they should be able to do 60 in a NSL raining or not. Keeping their distance of course due to the weather conditions.

Also a (person more alert well equipped driver should also stick to the speed limits in all weather conditions, the car infront or oncoming vehicle could also be person A so you need to drive to their limitations also.

If the road was an ice rink then certainly slow down as that is extreme weather and maybe think about not taking the journey.

However if somebody is a nervous driver or too frail to drive they should plan their journey in advance, refrain from travelling in the rush hours and/or generally get out of the way if they can't manage more than 40 in a 60, or maybe consider hanging up their keys.

Someone who drives at 40 mph in an NSL zone irritates other drivers and unfairly delays others, if they would be failed in a driving test for this behaviour they should also receive penalty points.

I await your fury :P

That's quite a blanket statement and suggests that you should be driving at NSL along any NSL road, with the only proviso being that you leave a bigger stopping distance if it's raining?! At the end of the day, the number on a stick is a legally imposed arbitrary number. It's a one size fits all solution where there are just too many factors for it to work well.

The problem is that people associate this number with safety rather than identifying a safe speed based on prevailing conditions number and tightness of bends, junctions, road surface, amount of traffic, weather/visibility, etc. So for example, if there's a stretch of NSL which is straight with good grippy tarmac, no junctions or traffic in good weather, the NSL seems to be too low because the road can safely be driven faster. Likewise, if I'm driving on a rutted single lane NSL with mud on it from the farm alongside and the potential for oncoming cars, then chances are I will pick a speed lower than NSL because I'm looking to increase the margins I have and I do not think travelling at the NSL is safe.

Ask most people what a safe driver is and you'll hear words like "slow", "sticks to speed limits", or "careful", which suggests that people associate going slowly with safety which means that older drivers tend to compensate for their nervousness/frailness by slowing down, rather than trying to improve their driving. After all, that's how they've always done it, why change?

Chris

The problem is that people associate this number with safety rather than identifying a safe speed based on prevailing conditions number and tightness of bends, junctions, road surface, amount of traffic, weather/visibility, etc.

In defence of 'people', the problem is that the concept of enforcing speed limits has been rammed down our throats so much over the last ten years by speed cameras that this is a natural progression - "I'll be heavily penalised if I don't obey the speed limits therefore I WILL obey the speed limits."

Perhaps if the emphasis was shifted towards awareness, defensive driving, advanced techniques instead of churning out reckless/timid/incompetent drivers by quota things would be different. But that would cost time and money, and it's better to punish people and extract income.

/cynical

Completely agree

Chris

BUT, if its dry with good visibility, and little traffic, then get up to speed ASAP and enjoy the drive.

I think this is the major gripe on here, not that we want to drive fast and are held up by others but that others aren't driving to the conditions. Driving too fast in bad conditions is dangerous driving but driving too slowly, or cautiously, in favourable conditions is also, in its own way, bad driving.

Driving too fast in bad conditions is dangerous driving but driving too slowly, or cautiously, in favourable conditions is also, in its own way, bad driving.

But weren't we talking early in the thread about people driving beyond their abilities? Surely it's better for people to acknowledge their limitations and compensate than risking killing themselves and others?

Chris

But I think the "I'll drive within my capabilities, 40 is quite fast enough thank you very much" (in a Mr Bean voice) attitude would be fine 50 years ago when the roads were deserted but is rather incompatible with the amount of traffic on our roads today. Making yourself an obstacle isn't safe for anyone.

Also a (person more alert well equipped driver should also stick to the speed limits in all weather conditions, the car infront or oncoming vehicle could also be person A so you need to drive to their limitations also.

I completely agree. The worst (IMO) kind of driving I see is driving-to-the-car-ahead approach where the following car's decisions are based purely on what the car in front is doing at that particular point in time. Instead of using corners or brows of hills to gauge any potential hazards and adjust their driving accordingly they just blindly follow the car in front, I suppose you could call it passive rather than active driving.

I personally always watch two or three vehicles in front to give a bit of extra insurance for my reaction times.

Making yourself an obstacle isn't safe for anyone.

But there are also the people who are "sticking to the speed limit, thank you very much" and are making themselves obstacles because people want to travel faster, ie the earlier posts about doing 30mph in a 30 and being overtaken.....

Chris

I'm more annoyed with drivers who have attitude about it (think it was mentioned before) There's a nice straight open road on my way to work that's a NSL but a majority think its a 40 or just like to drive 40 down it. Occasionally I get stuck behind someone who wants to drive 30. The road is wide enough to fit 4 cars side to side easily (in fact in rush hour it unofficially becomes a 4 lane road). I'm always loathed to overtake on it though as anyone who does is instantly labeled a dangerous boy-racer as they are too impatient to cope with 20mph below the limit.

One time (in fact the last time) I dared to overtake a 30mph driver on it; they had pulled across (obviously realising they were going slow and had no intention to speed up) so I began to overtake and as I was alongside the car another, coming in the opposite direction, decided to assume I was an evil dangerous driver and proceeded to flash his full beams at me whist speeding up, steering his car onto my side of the road and heading directly for the front of my car.

I wasn't being dangerous, I wasn't doing anything illegal and although there was oncoming traffic, it was at a distance that meant I would have completed my overtake before it reached me and even if not there was ample room for all 3 cars if need be.

I completely blame the ****** for deciding to be an idiot, and I fully appreciate the car in front pulling over to give me room to pass. But I can't help but think if they were nearing NSL then the whole incident wouldn't have needed to happen in the first place. If they were doing 40+ then I wouldn't have felt any need to overtake, just mild annoyance. As mentioned before it's part of the interactions between drivers. But then again; without knowing a definitive reason they were driving at 30 I can't really make a judgment I suppose?

Sometimes I find it quite necessary to drive at 40mph in a NSL - whether it's admiring the scenery, hunting on the floor for the mobile phone I've just dropped or eating a Ginsters steak slice.

But I think the "I'll drive within my capabilities, 40 is quite fast enough thank you very much" (in a Mr Bean voice) attitude would be fine 50 years ago when the roads were deserted but is rather incompatible with the amount of traffic on our roads today. Making yourself an obstacle isn't safe for anyone.

as damn frustrating as they are when you get stuck behing them on a nice road, I'd rather everyone got where they were going in one piece than I get somewhere 5 minutes sooner or have a slightly more enjoyable trip and someone else ends up in a ditch or worse

a little while back I had some fool right up my chuff when I was "stuck" behind slower cars, but once the road was clear and got a bit curvy, said fool was scarily all over the shop and thankfully getting further and further behind...

I completely agree. The worst (IMO) kind of driving I see is driving-to-the-car-ahead approach where the following car's decisions are based purely on what the car in front is doing at that particular point in time. Instead of using corners or brows of hills to gauge any potential hazards and adjust their driving accordingly they just blindly follow the car in front, I suppose you could call it passive rather than active driving.

I personally always watch two or three vehicles in front to give a bit of extra insurance for my reaction times.

If you know somebody is doing that behind you, you can have a lot of fun by left foot braking to get the lights on and still accelerating away. Confuses the fook out out of them usually

But weren't we talking early in the thread about people driving beyond their abilities? Surely it's better for people to acknowledge their limitations and compensate than risking killing themselves and others?

Chris

True Chris, I can see what you're saying but if it's beyond their capabilities to make reasonable progress along a road (ie 40 on 60 raod with favourable conditions) then they should not be on that road as they are creating a potential hazard for other road users who are capable of making reasonable progress.

I have no problem with being behind someone sticking to the speed limit or being behind someone who has dropped their speed due to weather conditions. I do however have a problem with people that are not observational enough to see the posted limit or are unable to make a decent enough progress for the limit (weather permitting obviously).

My journey to and from work is made up of country A roads (mud patches, emerging tractors, blind bends, blind crests) and the dreaded average speed M1 with SPECS cameras so it's full of fun and games anyway. The last thing I want to have to put up with is a timid driver doing 40 on the straight, flat bits when 60 is completely possible.

There ends my rant

I'm more annoyed with drivers who have attitude about it (think it was mentioned before)

One time (in fact the last time) I dared to overtake a 30mph driver on it; they had pulled across (obviously realising they were going slow and had no intention to speed up) so I began to overtake and as I was alongside the car another, coming in the opposite direction, decided to assume I was an evil dangerous driver and proceeded to flash his full beams at me whist speeding up, steering his car onto my side of the road and heading directly for the front of my car.

I wasn't being dangerous, I wasn't doing anything illegal and although there was oncoming traffic, it was at a distance that meant I would have completed my overtake before it reached me and even if not there was ample room for all 3 cars if need be.

Very similar incident happened to me about three weeks ago but I was flashed by the bloke I was overtaking doing 30 in a 60 as well as the car coming the other way a mile in distance . I don't know when it happened but it now seems overtaking slow moving traffic is evil and wrong

True Chris, I can see what you're saying but if it's beyond their capabilities to make reasonable progress along a road (ie 40 on 60 raod with favourable conditions) then they should not be on that road as they are creating a potential hazard for other road users who are capable of making reasonable progress.

They are creating a potential hazard (but then all cars are hazards anyway aren't they?). As would a tractor, a caravan, a lorry, a moped, etc. If they can't make reasonable progress does it really impact your life? If it bugs you that much, overtake them (straight flat roads in good conditions are ideal for this ), pull over to buy yourself some clear road, take another route, or drive at a less congested time.

Chris

If you know somebody is doing that behind you, you can have a lot of fun by left foot braking to get the lights on and still accelerating away. Confuses the fook out out of them usually

Or to the untrained, what was intended as a gentle jab with the left foot can equate to stomping on hard enough to make ABS kick in.

Plus don't most VAG cars cut the accelerator when you apply the brake anyway?