Polo Oil Consumption...

[Ootohere]

PS

You Invoice VW UK for all your extra Expenses,  Travel / Fuel to the Dealership, Extra Oil,

& Importantly the Surcharge if any for Insurance on a Courtesy Car.

 

You bought a VW Polo GTI and Insured that, and VW know the Faults, and their responsibility 

because of their Design, or Manufacturing Faults.

 

?

Has your car required the Service campaign work on the DSG, and have VW been in touch about this?

[tonyfvrs]

Don't think the change from CAVE to CTHE on my 2 vRS's made any difference to oil consumption, they both drank the stuff.

However I don't care as I love the car in all respects, except perhaps the rattles in winter.

[muckingfuppet]

Thought that you had done the deal to PX for a Passat at the Hereford dealer.

 

Or did I get that wrong.

 

I did, and was going ahead, then I had these issues and to be honest offloading for someone else to have the headache isn't right. That and I want off finance too, and the Passat wasn't the way ahead.

 

 

Has your car required the Service campaign work on the DSG, and have VW been in touch about this?

 

Funnily enough when I phoned up I mentioned a few bits that I wasn't happy with, and when I mentioned the face the gearbox kept short shifting out of 3rd into 4th the service rep suddenly remembered about the DSG oil recall. Booked i for quite a bit of work Tuesday the week after next, all at VW's expense!

 

Don't think the change from CAVE to CTHE on my 2 vRS's made any difference to oil consumption, they both drank the stuff.

However I don't care as I love the car in all respects, except perhaps the rattles in winter.

 

I wait with baited breath as to what difference (if any) it makes if/when they decide to do the engine swap. 

 

 

Incidentally, seeing as I started having these problems less than 6 months after purchase, do I have any stance with regard to consumer law to be able to return the vehicle and get out of the finance agreement? As I said, chainsaws and torches are heading the way of the car at the moment...

[Ootohere]

They can repair it correctly by replacing the engine as Volkswagen knows it needs to be. It is just that that should have been done long ago. So unlikely you can reject.

Edited 13 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[muckingfuppet]

Evening folks, just a brief update...

So the car went into the garage last night for this morning. Later on this afternoon the garage phoned me with an update.

They plugged in VagCom and registered that cylinders 1&2 had been misfiring. The coils from these were moved to 3&4, which caused 3&4 to start misfiring. Cylinder 2 was still misfiring also, and had lost all compression. Faulty coil packs were replaced and no.2 spark plug was removed. Spark plug electrode was missing, having disintegrated. The plan is now to split the head from the block so they can investigate what damage this has caused to the piston/bore.

For now I am left driving round the courtesy car, a little 1.0 Up. Handles like a go kart and is hilariously fun haha.

I will update further when I have more from the garage...

[Ootohere]

Little point in them checking what damage has been done now.

The engine was gubbed long before this.

 

Is it VW that want the Head off?  Having their Factory Engineers discovering what they have known for 4 years,

that can be done when they get their duff engine back.  

 

Your replacement engine should be on its way for fitting.

[vrskeith]

Totally agree with you George. Damage is done,no point in garage messing about. They should be claiming a new engine from VW UK Customer Services and stop ****ing about. It was an oil burner and blown engine. So it's replacement. Use case no and contact VW CS and get some action.

Edited 24 September, 2014 by vrskeith

[vrskeith]

Evening folks, just a brief update...

So the car went into the garage last night for this morning. Later on this afternoon the garage phoned me with an update.

They plugged in VagCom and registered that cylinders 1&2 had been misfiring. The coils from these were moved to 3&4, which caused 3&4 to start misfiring. Cylinder 2 was still misfiring also, and had lost all compression. Faulty coil packs were replaced and no.2 spark plug was removed. Spark plug electrode was missing, having disintegrated. The plan is now to split the head from the block so they can investigate what damage this has caused to the piston/bore.

For now I am left driving round the courtesy car, a little 1.0 Up. Handles like a go kart and is hilariously fun haha.

I will update further when I have more from the garage...

Anything positive happening for you?

[muckingfuppet]

As yet still waiting for the bore inspection, the dealership are only having te master tech work on it so nothing happening until Tuesday.

[muckingfuppet]

Have been in touch with VW Finance today to let them know what is happening with the vehicle. I also did a bit of digging last night and came across these two little gems:

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/the_car_you_bought_is_faulty.htm

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/how-to-complain-about-a-second-hand-car-to-a-dealer

 

Given that one of them is a government run and advocated site, I think it is safe to say that the legal side of business here is trustworthy. Armed with these bits of knowledge I spoke to VW Finance about rejecting the vehicle for refund, and was advised to speak to the dealer I purchased it from. A phonecall to the sales manager at Listers Nuneaton proved less than helpful to be honest with you. He seemed to be trying to worm out of following my legal right, and pushed me toward the brand manager at the dealer. 

 

To cut a long story short I received a rather abrupt phonecall back from the sales manager explaining that according to the brand manager (who couldn't be bothered to call me himself) I had no right to reject in the matter. I simply replied that I would be taking the issue up with VW UK and trading standards, as seeing as VW knew about the oil consumption issue in these engines previously and the salesman had not made me aware, I had been in the very least mis-sold the vehicle under the sale of goods act as "not fit for purpose" and possibly "not of satisfactory quality".

 

The route I am taking in this matter is that I wish to reject the vehicle and obtain a refund, which as I understand it, because I am on HP finance I am entitled to do for the duration of the agreement. As I said, the purchase dealer was less than helpful, and I would strongly recommend anyone to avoid them if for nothing more than the lack of after sales care. 

 

I will keep you updated on that side also with regard to VW UK, VW Finance and Trading Standards. Maybe there is some nugget of hope that not everyone is out to get us. 

[Ootohere]

Good luck with it.

Others have tried going down that line and have succeeded. 

But on the other hand others got no place with that.

 

The car could have a new engine in within a week, be of merchantable quality, and no need to reject.

It is surprising that Volkswagen have not correctly repaired the car by fitting a new engine,

so that being the case, you are as well taking the action you are taking.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced

Examples @ post #12, #24, #26 & #31

Edited 30 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Ootohere]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/260846-vrs-drinking-oil

 

Volkswagen would like to launch the new Polo GTI 1.8TSI and just pretend they never built 

so many Polo GTI 1.4 TSI with Faulty Engines,

& the Motoring Jouralists never seem to question them on this.

http://autoevolution.com/news/2015-volkswagen-polo-gti-revealed-with-18-tsi-engine-photo-gallery-86711.html

Edited 30 September, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[vrskeith]

As George has inferred the best approach would be getting the new engine installed.

 

At least in most cases now Skoda UK CS / Dealers seem to get on and replace the engine with much less hassle than previously.

 

Can't see why VW UK CS can't get on and do the same for you. Perhaps the garage is making more money by messing you about with inspection and further stripping down of engine.

 

This is not required and they know it!!!

[muckingfuppet]

So I've phoned my dealership this morning, only to be told that the car isn't being worked on yet. I've expressed my deep displeasure at this, the fact I have been given two dates now that it would be worked on, and neither has been stuck to. Really taking the ****. 

 

I then interestingly enough had a phonecall from VW UK's Customer Relations manager with regard to the complaint that I submitted, and she is currently trying to mediate with the dealership and find out what is going on. She agreed that two months of ownership with a major issue to surface does seem a bit off, so we will see what returns from it. 

 

Having some "interesting" email correspondence with the Nuneaton dealership brand manager at the moment, I may post it up shortly to see what people make of their attitude toward it. In basics terms, from the last email I've had from him he's tried to say that this oil consumption failure is fair wear and tear. In a 3 and a half year old VW. With 50k miles on it. I called bullsh1t on that, and told him so (in albeit much kinder language) in my reply. Now waiting to see what happens.

[Ootohere]

Sorry if this seems to 'Simples'.

 

But considering the Extent of the VW Dealership Network in the UK.

 

Suggest to VW HQ UK,  that they get your vehicle collected from the Dealership with no time

to do the Warranty Work correctly and in a timely manner,

 

& VW UK can have it transported to a Service Workshop with a Master Technician and where VW Factory Engineers can visit and look at you engine that has the same issues as many have had since 2009.

Then they can be sure what is wrong and start acting Professionally and stop giving customers the run around.

 

Or VW can take your car & find a Like for Like replacement without Faults,

& exchange it for you.

 

You really should have Professional Legal Advice, and reject that car,

or demand the Issue is resolved before next Monday.

 

VW UK are taking the Pith.

Edited 6 October, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[muckingfuppet]

Funny you should say that, I've had more correspondence from the Nuneaton dealer (which I will post up on here shortly), categorically stating that they will not refund me on the vehicle. I replied saying that clearly it was not going to be resolved amicably and that I would be escalating matters further until such times as it was resolved. Might speak to the army legal service and see if they can help out in any way on this or if I'm gonna have to go through a civilian agency...

[muckingfuppet]

As promised the correspondence, in date order. My name omitted, left the dealer and brand managers name in for any future reference.

 

29/9/14:

Dear Mr Martin,

My name is ***, and I have been put in your direction by Mr Lowe with reference to rejecting a car I purchased from yourselves in December last year. 

Long and short I have a 2011 Polo GTi, bought Used Approved your dealer in December, on HP finance. Around February/March time I took it in to my local dealer (Salisbury) because I was concerned by the amount of oil it was burning, approximately a litre in 600 miles that I had measured against the trip.

I had to do a test mileage for them so they could determine the usage, and it turned out it was burning more than what was considered acceptable by VWUK. Unfortunately I then had to go to Canada with work for 3 months, so the car was left with a friend to keep it ticking over while I was away. I came back and got the car booked in for the first remedial action which was some sort of modification to the crankcase oil breather. I was then told to do another test mileage to see if this had rectified the issue. Part way through this test mileage, I was out in the car, and I had basically an engine failure. It coughed and misfired, warning lights on the dash, started running only on 3 cylinders. I managed to limp it home and booked in to the garage to get it investigated. 

Last week when I had it recovered to the dealership for investigation. I had a phonecall later in the day from the service advisor with these problems:

VAGCOM had shown cylinders 1 & 2 misfiring. Coilpacks from these were moved to 3 & 4, and caused 3 & 4 to start misfiring, so were duly replaced. VAGCOM was still registering cylinder 2 as misfiring, and on inspecting the spark plug the technician found that the electrode was missing. They then compression tested the engine and found cylinder 2 had lost all compression. 

At current they are waiting to get the car fitted in to do an inspection of the chamber to determine any piston, bore or valve damage there is.

At this stage though I have lost all confidence and faith in the car and the brand and I am writing to you to request that I reject the car as unfit for purpose. 

I wait for your response,
Many thanks,
***.

 

30/09/2014:

Good morning Mr ***

I am sorry to read of the situation regarding your Polo Gti. Please be assured that you have a Volkswagen Approved Warranty with your purchase to cover any mechanical failures. Unfortunately motor vehicles do break down from time to time, however you have a comprehensive warranty for peace of mind motoring. 

Andrew Lowe, sales manager should be contacting you regarding this if not done so already.

Kind regards

Mike

 

30/09/2014:

Mr Martin,

 

Thankyou for your timely reply. I understand that mechanical failures happen from time to time, I am a mechanical engineer by trade and as such see such examples on a daily basis. This also gives me the benefit of insight into material wear and fatigue.

 

My issue is that I started having these problems so soon after the purchase. Having since done some research into the matter, it has become clear that the oil consumption and occasional failure of the spark plugs and coil packs is an underlying issue that plagues the 1.4TSi engine found in the GTI series, which has been recognised by Volkswagen UK.

 

I was not made aware of these issues by your salesman, and as such was at the very least mis sold the vehicle.

 

Under the current legislation as it stands, The Sale of Goods Act 1979, the vehicle just be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, and as described. Seeing as the vehicle had such a failure at such a premature time, it would appear the vehicle at the very least is not fit for purpose.

 

I would ask you reconsider my request for a refund and return of the vehicle. If needs be I am prepared to take this further to resolve the situation.

 

Many thanks,

 

***

 

03/10/2014:

Dear Mr ***,

 

 

Please be assured that under no circumstances has your vehicle been miss-sold.

 

Any motor vehicle is obviously subject to wear and tear items along with potential mechanical breakdowns. Your vehicle, registered 09/11/2013 is almost 3 and a half years old. It was sold to you on 06/12/2013 having covered 39204 miles and I believe it has now done just over 50,000 miles. Any mechanical failure covered under your warranty will of course be rectified.

 

It is not a case of ‘not fit for purpose’ it has unfortunately incurred a mechanical breakdown/failure that is being investigated by your local Volkswagen Retailer.

Clearly, there is always a cost to motoring and therefore unable to give you a full refund. However If you would like to discuss a purchase price from us taking into account todays trade market value for the age and mileage we would be happy to discuss this.

 

Andy Lowe sales manager can discuss this with you at your convenience.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

04/10/2014:

Dear Mr Martin,

 

If I have not been mis sold the vehicle then could you please explain why I was not made aware of the issues that accompany these versions of the GTi engine?

 

I find it almost insulting that you suggest that a problem with these engines, that has been recognised by Volkswagen UK, is a "wear and tear" item. The car as you rightly stated is just three and a half years old, and has covered only a slightly above average mileage for its age. Couple this with Volkswagens reputation for reliability and build quality, I seriously begin to question why I would ever return to the brand after this experience.

 

I would suggest that seeing as these issues became apparent with the vehicle within 3 months of my purchase that it is indeed unfit for purpose. I bought the vehicle to use daily, not to have to return it to my local dealership every few weeks due to a recognised mechanical failure. 

 

As such I have been in discussion with Volkswagen Finance, and made them fully aware of the situation with the vehicle. They are aware that the vehicle has been off the road, and have so far been most supportive in resolving this. 

 

I would point out at this stage that as the vehicle was purchased under Hire Purchase finance, I am aware that I have the right to reject the vehicle at any stage of the agreement if it develops a serious enough fault, regardless of warranty offered. 

 

I ask you one last time to consider my request for a refund of the vehicle before I am forced to pursue matters further through citizens advice and trading standards.

 

Regards,

***

 

06/10/2014:

Dear Mr ***

 

I can confirm that the electrode ‘broken off’ one of the spark plugs is not an inherent problem with your Polo or indeed any Volkswagen vehicle, but a failure in the Spark Plug itself, and therefore I can only refer you to my previous emails regarding any mechanical failures being covered under the warranty, will be rectified free of charge.

 

Whilst I accept that any mechanical breakdown or failure of parts is not ideal, mechanical items do malfunction/breakdown from time to time and the warranty, like all warranties, are there for some peace of mind.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

06/10/2014:

Dear Mr Martin,

 

I haven't claimed the broken spark plug to be an inherent problem at any stage. I take issue with the oil consumption however as being the underlying issue. 

 

As I have stated previously, being sold a vehicle with this issue that is only 3 and a half years old, and only 50000 miles is simply unacceptable. 

 

This is not an issue of fair wear and tear, it is an issue of being sold a defective product. Warranty or no warranty, I have been sold a vehicle with underlying mechanical issues, and as such I am well within my rights to ask you again for a refund.

 

Regards,

***

 

06/10/2014:

Dear Mr  ***

 

I confirm once again, we have not miss-sold your vehicle and we will not issue a full refund. However and without wishing to repeat myself, should you wish to discuss purchase price, I am happy for the sales manager to discuss this with you.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

06/10/2014:

Dear Mr Martin,

 

It is clear that we are not going to reach a satisfactory resolution amicably, and as such this conversation has run its course. Please be advised I will now be escalating matters until such times as this is resolved.

 

Regards,

***

 

 

Make of this what you will, but to me it smacks of terrible customer service and a failure to recognise basic consumer law.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Well done.

I think you pretty well covered everything, and gave them the opportunity to act correctly.

 

Volkswagen the Car Manufacturer know the Issues with some Engines & Components they fitted in cars 2009- 2012/13

& why they Fitted a revised engine, 

Late 2012/ 13 on.

 

All the best with it.

The Person Dealing with you is obviously well versed in the Volkswagen Way.

Say nothing, admit nothing, it never happened, if we say it never.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

 

One thing is,

You are Dealing with a Sales Manager, 

Best Deal with a Dealer Principal, Work Shop Manager  / Warranty Manager,  

Volkswagen Area Warranty Manager etc.

 

Just anyone with Technical & Mechanical Knowledge and Qualifications in Vehicle Mechanical Engineering.

Even someone with a SVQ in Vehicles Mechanics is better than some one in 'Sales' & BS.  JIMO.

Edited 6 October, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[muckingfuppet]

No no, Mr Martin is the Brand Manager, one step up again. But agreed, it is still sales, and unfortunately it is their decision about whether the refund happens or not amicably.

[Ootohere]

Well it is their decision from their point.

 

It might not be once Volkswagen UK get involved properly, or you take legal Advice,

Because regardless of a Car Dealership not being aware of a Cars faults and known faults,

a VW Dealership should be aware of the Twinchargers Issues.

 

Sometimes a Customer got shot of the car because they knew issues were there, like high Oil Use.

Some Extended Warranty Companies are refusing to pay to Replace Engines because the Fault is Known to Volkswagen.

& really VW did nothing about it, and allow cars in the Car Trade being sold where they already are Oil 

users.

VW & Skoda Dealers are just going along with pretending to have no Knowledge.

 

It is Volkswagen that you need to Pursue to resolve things.

 

Is you Warranty from the Dealership a Volkswagen One, or who Underwrites it.?

Edited 6 October, 2014 by goneoffSKi

[Furbytom]

How come it's still in warranty at 3.5yrs old? Did they supply the car with an extended warranty when you bought it?

[muckingfuppet]

Furbytom -

 

Bought at just under 3 years old as an approved used vehicle, was supplied with 12 months approved warranty.

 

goneoffSki -

 

I believe it is supplied by VW. I will be back on the phone tomorrow morning to the customer relations manager to force a decision one way or another. If they still refuse the refund then the financial ombudsman and trading standards are getting brought into the matter. 

Edited 6 October, 2014 by muckingfuppet

[muckingfuppet]

So a brief update, I have just gotten off the phone to the financial ombudsmen. The advice from them was that because I have started complaints procedures with the finance company, they have up to 8 weeks to find a resolution. So at current that puts me at around the start of December to be able to pursue anything further from that direction. I was also advised however to get in touch with trading standards regarding the dealership, which I have now done. I have been told to expect a callback from them within 24 hours to get the ball rolling with respect to raising a complaint around the dealership. So, we shall see.

[vrskeith]

So a brief update, I have just gotten off the phone to the financial ombudsmen. The advice from them was that because I have started complaints procedures with the finance company, they have up to 8 weeks to find a resolution. So at current that puts me at around the start of December to be able to pursue anything further from that direction. I was also advised however to get in touch with trading standards regarding the dealership, which I have now done. I have been told to expect a callback from them within 24 hours to get the ball rolling with respect to raising a complaint around the dealership. So, we shall see.

Well done ,hope you can get the resolution you are after, going this route.

 

Is the dealers Master Tec still playing around with your engine or has he been told to stop, now that you are taking other actions. 

Are they still funding and supplying the loan car until the situation is resolved.

Edited 8 October, 2014 by vrskeith

[muckingfuppet]

Dealer started finally looking at it after they got a kick up the arse from VW UK about it, waiting to hear back now. VW Finance also gave me a "goodwill" gesture of £75 to cover to cost of insuring the courtesy car for the time being.