Clutch Failure?

[Andy Sayle]

Afternoon all.

 

I've just had the Skoda Assist guys out to our 2012 Yeti, as it wasn't working.  Apparently the clutch has "gone".  The clutch pedal has little resistance until it is almost at the floor, and gears are almost impossible to select.  No burning smells, or any obvious signs whilst driving yesterday, just an inability to select gears this morning.  This is on a 140 4x4 elegance diesel.  The car has only done 35000, with most of that mileage being motorway miles.  It has never been used for towing.

 

First up, I'd have thought the clutch would last longer?  Is there anything else that could cause this issue, other than complete clutch failure?

 

Regardless of that, it needs mending. So if the clutch does need replacing as preventative maintenance, is there anything else that should be done at the same time, whilst the car is in bits (I'm assuming!)

 

Cheers

Andy

[octyal]

If there was nothing to suggest impending failure then I would suspect that the hydraulics have failed somewhere. If the clutch was on it's way out then you would expect slipping, burning, strange pedal feel etc - all the usual symptoms - rather than park it up, and it's gone in the morning. I know Volkswagen have had issues with the O rings in the pipe joins, and have modified the bleed connector and damper unit over the years. Hopefully it's just a failed master or slave cylinder.

[Urrell]

If not noticed before I'd go with the above and clutch operation system.
Slave/master cylinder or air in system.

Master cylinder or air in system will be cheapest as the gearbox has to come out to get to the slave cylinder.

[Andy Sayle]

It's get a bit more odd. I've been in work all day today, and come back home to the car parked up on the driveway. Thought I would have a quick look and see if it was still broken. I can now get gears okay, and the clutch seems to work..

Has it mended itself? Or is this a sign of an intermittent impending complete failure? Think I might take it for a drive and see what happens...

[Llanigraham]

That sounds more like an hydraulic problem than a mechanical one.

What is the fluid level like?

[octyal]

Definitely hydraulic problem then. A clutch is mechanical, and it either works or it doesn't.

[Andy Sayle]

I've driven it about this morning again, and it is working perfect still.  No clutch slipping, no gear selection issues, just as normal!  I stopped in at a local garage, they had a quick look over it, and said it felt fine.  They checked the clutch fluid level, and said it looks fine, not low, and no evidence of any leaking.

 

I'm baffled.  And thinking that it seems stupid to tear down the engine and gearbox when there might not be a major problem inside.

 

Perhaps the best thing to do here, is leave it for a while, and see what happens....

[Spaced99]

If fluid has leaked onto the clutch it will cause it to fail quite quickly. It will cause it to slip, leading to the clutch failing. I would keep a close eye on the fluid level.

[eribaMotters]

I've driven it about this morning again, and it is working perfect still.  No clutch slipping, no gear selection issues, just as normal!  I stopped in at a local garage, they had a quick look over it, and said it felt fine.  They checked the clutch fluid level, and said it looks fine, not low, and no evidence of any leaking.

 

I'm baffled.  And thinking that it seems stupid to tear down the engine and gearbox when there might not be a major problem inside.

 

Perhaps the best thing to do here, is leave it for a while, and see what happens....

The problem with that is you could easily be left stranded somewhere. You need a diagnosis of what is exactly wrong.

 

Colin

[octyal]

Have seen similar issues with random non operation of clutches when the pedal hasn't been pushing the master cylinder rod perfectly square up the bore - this allows fluid to seep past the internal seals lowering the effective pressure. It's also worth checking the link pipe between the master cylinder reservoir and the clutch master, as they have been know to go porous and let air in. As said, the fluid level can sometimes be the culprit too, especially with shared reservoirs. Too low and it won't feed the clutch master cylinder. Open the cap, take the filter out and check it, have seen dirty filters holding fluid, masking the real level underneath - has caused much head scratching before now.

[Andy Sayle]

Hi folks.

 

A bit of an update.  I did a long drive at the weekend, and the clutch and gears worked perfectly all the way (about 200 miles).  The car went into the garage today to have an inspection, and it seems that there is an oil leak.  It doesn't appear to be clutch fluid, but could be gear oil looking at the lack of blackness to it.  It seems to be coming down from between the transfer box and the gearbox, but it could be ending up there, as it has been blown around a fair bit.

 

I'm not sure why this should cause the clutch issue, but it can't be a coincidence, can it?

 

Anyway, I suppose I shall know more when the garage start stripping things down to trace the leak tomorrow.

 

Cheers

Andy

[octyal]

A leak between the transfer box and the main transmission wouldn't give the symptoms you had - if anything then it would more than likely give slip, as the friction surfaces would be contaminated. I still reckon it's hydraulic

[Ryeman]

In the old days oil on a clutch would result in snatch rather than slip unless it was a massive amount.

[Andy Sayle]

Afternoon guys.  Think the garage has found the issue.  On investigating the oil leak, they had to take the gearbox out, as it seemed to be coming from inside the clutch bellhousing.  They were met with a clutch that has a big chunk of metal missing (broken off), and the evidence points to it rattling around inside the bellhousing, before cracking the gearbox casing, causing the leak.

 

Why a chunk of clutch should suddenly decide to fall off and do this, I'm not sure.  Whichever way I look at it, it is going to be a bloody expensive bill, as at the moment it is going to need a new clutch (and probably DM flywheel too), and either a new gearbox housing, or it may be cheaper to get a S/H gearbox.

 

I'm off to the garage now to get some pictures and look at the bits.  Will post them for reference later.

 

Andy

[octyal]

Would that be a Sachs unit by any chance? If so, then there have been a few instances of the clutch diaphragm springs failing and wearing holes in the gearbox. Get in touch with the local dealer, you may have a cause for a goodwill payment for the repairs required

[Andy Sayle]

Not sure yet, I'm supposed to be going over to the garage either this afternoon, or tomorrow morning to see it in person.  I'm hazarding a guess Skoda will want nothing to do with it, as the car is 4 years old, and out of warranty, and the all the servicing out of warranty (and this investigative work) has been done by a local independent garage.

 

I'll be letting them know what's happened though, and posting it up on here, if only as a warning to others..

 

Cheers

Andy

[Andy Sayle]

Here's a few images of the failure.  The damage to the gearbox casing means it is likely to mean fitting a secondhand gearbox is the economical option.  A new one from Skoda is going to be silly money (I expect, garage is awaiting a price).  In total, I'm expecting a bill in excess of £2k.  All down to part of the clutch disintegrating.

 

Whilst I appreciate it is out of warranty, it is damn annoying that the failure of a part like this, which I cannot fathom how it can occur due to any inadvertent misuse of the clutch that I may have been doing whilst driving, leads to a massive repair bill on a 4 year old car.

 

Anyway, the pictures show the chunk of the clutch that has come away, and machined a bit of the gearbox housing, before ultimately detaching completely, rattling around the bellhousing before puncturing the gearbox casing.  What I find odd, is that other than the clutch not working for a few hours and then working perfectly again, I heard no rattling, felt no vibration, nothing.  I suppose it goes to show how well isolated modern engines are.

 

So anyway, if you ever get an odd issue with your clutch, get it investigated pronto!

 

Andy

[Urrell]

Could that gearbox casing not be repaired/built up?

[octyal]

This may help, from the Sachs website regarding the SAC clutch that is used on that car from the factory.

0032001_MH12189.pdf

[muddyjim]

This problem is apparently not unique; I've found this thread on the Supurb forum;

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/363426-clutch-eats-gearbox-and-bank-balance/

And photos here:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/363426-clutch-eats-gearbox-and-bank-balance/page-2#entry4351669

 

Jim

[Andy Sayle]

Hi folks,

 

thanks for the links.  I've read (and been told) of a number of similar failures of the Sachs clutch that was fitted to my Yeti.  Skoda seem to be aware of it as well, (well, the service dept at the dealers I have spoken to do).

 

Anyway, the car has been repaired by my local independent garage.  They have replaced the clutch, flywheel, clutch slave cylinder, and repaired the gearbox housing.

 

I have spoken to Skoda UK, and the Skoda Dealer, and got nowhere with them.  They want nothing to do with it at all.  Not really a massive surprise, but still not particularly nice to have to deal with a 4 figure repair bill, because of a part failing through no fault of my own (and likely due to a manufacturing defect).

 

Ah well, live and learn...

 

Andy

[Philippo]

Hello Andy

 

I had exactly the same problem on my 2010 Yeti. Clutch went after a couple of hours on the motorway, then a couple of hours later returned.

 

It's almost certainly contaminated (e.g. water) hydraulic fluid. When there's a lot of heat in the engine compartment the fluid in the clutch system boils the water creating air in the system.

 

I think the problem is that when they change the fluid they only bleed it through the brake cylinders and forget about the fluid in the clutch circuit. I suspect that if you get the clutch circuit bled from the slave cylinder, sludgy fluid will come out before fresh stuff. That is what happened when I did mine and since I've had no more "clutch failure" on long motorway runs.

 

Not a big job if that's all it is and certainly worth a try.

 

Cheers

[Philippo]

Sorry Andy, I didn't read all of the thread and see that your problem is not the same as mine, and unfortunately more severe.

 

Very sorry about that.

 

Cheers

 

Philip

[Grumpy Geaser]

Saw this thread while researching for my own Yeti Clutch failure - same failure mode at 35k miles and 3 1/2 years. I got a new clutch assembly and the gearbox rebuilt with a new casing. Thankfully I had taken out an extended warranty with Quentin Wilsons lot. Dealer gave excellent support including loaner car, Skoda contributed something (about 1/3rd I believe) and Warrantywise covered the rest.