Coming soon, the greatest Favorit project ever! (Probably)

[favguy]

A little more progress on the battery upgrade. The front three batteries have been taking a while... unlike the other batteries that aren't subject to atmospheric considerations, these three sit under the bonnet and our damp climate means I want them pretty much watertight and certainly splash proof, so an enclosure is necessary. I'd initially planned to make this entirely from polycarbonate, but it's just not rigid enough without using a really thick wall, so after playing around I've settled on a combination of 4mm aluminium plate for the module end plates/box walls, with polycarbonate for the box base, ends and lid.

 

There is no way to install all the batteries at once in one enclosure due to available space so I've devised a modular "Meccano" style system whereby I can install one box at a time, interlocking them with appropriate closed cell foam seals. Once in , the Polycarb. end sections can be fitted with appropriate glands for the cabling.

 

The joining angle and "T" sections you see in the pics are anodised to protect against corrosion, and fitted using high strength 3M double sided adhesive tape, the end plates are etch primed and finished with matt black paint. Once they're in with the clear sides and lid on, the end result should be quite presentable.

 

 

 

[Th3Grinch]

cool project. but with some of my journies, unless it were capable of 400+ miles on one charge, or there were really really regular places you can charge up at on the way, it would not be feasible for me.

Have you worked out how long it will take to recoup the £6000? For me in my mental maths, I would imagine in fuel terms alone, it's 300 miles for £10 (say) compared to 300 miles costing £35 in unleaded. £25 per 300 miles recouped, £6k back in 72,000 miles. Then there's the £200 (is it usually?) road fund license per annum. What wear and tear like on electric motors? I imagine reliability is good over combustion engines in general?

Brilliant thread... but I still cant get over the 300miles for a tenner! Oh how its changed in only 6years!

[BossFox]

Saw this at the show today and talked to the owner.

 

Without a doubt this is THE best Skoda based project I've ever seen.

I was simply in awe of it and just kept standing there looking at it.

 

Amazing the attention to detail and quality of the conversion and car.

 

Best car at the show by a huge margin, hats off to you and thanks for bringing it along.

 

Amazed.

[softscoop]

I couldn't agree more.

 

After seeing this in the flesh, the engineering and workmanship that's gone into it, it's more impressive than the pictures could ever suggest.

 

Great work

[favguy]

Thanks for the kind words, it was nice to meet so many of you all yesterday at the meet

[Beryl's Chief Pilot]

Thanks for sharing it with us, the car itself is stunning, let alone the engineering that's gone into it. I've seen factory endorsed concept cars at shows that weren't as well made as yours!

[Auric Goldfinger]

Utterly Stunning

[dohnjoe]

I like the quality of electrical engineering.

but I see some problems:

- what is the point of using an electrical car when the current to charge the batteries is produced burning fossil fuel?

- what is the electricity cost / mile ? what if you include the cost of car modification?

- is the state helping you in any way? like fiscal facilities

[favguy]

Hi johndoe,

 

In answer to your points, they're not really problems:

 

Even if the electricity to run the car is made entirely using coal, emissions are still 30% lower than an equivalent petrol or diesel car simply because electric motors are so much more efficient than internal combustion engines producing pollution locally. In any case here in the UK, electricity is produced from a mix including much cleaner gas, renewables and nuclear, so emissions are in reality much lower. Also, I can use a solar array to run the car with no emissions at all, ever, if I so choose

 

Also, consider this... to drill for, refine & ship 1 gallon of petrol or diesel from well to pump uses almost as much energy as I use to drive electrically the same distance that gallon would take you in a petrol car!!! So you have to include this when considering emissions and oil based fuels, it's not just about the tailpipe emissions!

 

Fuel cost per mile works out at around 10% of the cost of running a small diesel car.

 

My conversion cost in total has been around £10,000 to £11,000 at this point. (I think, I stopped counting!). When I started no manufacturer (viable) electric cars existed to buy, if I were starting again today, instead I could consider buying a used Nissan Leaf for what the project has cost me and save myself the work of converting. I wouldn't do this as money or savings was never the point of this project. (It's never part of any project done for the love of it) I did it just because I could and for the pure pleasure of engineering, problem solving & owning something unique.

 

The UK Government doesn't help financially in any way with conversions, or when buying a used EV, they do give £5000 off new ones. (at the moment!)

 

Where are you based in Russia, I spent some time in Novokuznetsk, Siberia a few years ago..

 

Regards,

 

Paul

Edited 5 August, 2014 by favguy

[dohnjoe]

here is my take: to convert/build an electric car costs A LOT of money and labor and involves A LOT of modifications.

the average Joe could not afford it, given he is a skilled mechanic and engineer.

that makes me think that it takes A LOT of years to recover the money invested and start feeling you run the car cheaper.

as for charging the batteries from a solar array, that again costs a lot of money to build as it is not free.

all and all, however you put it, electric cars are expensive till they become cheap to run.

the only cheap alternative would be to have the governments release all the patents they suppressed and shelved concerning ways of extracting electrical energy from the environment.

not using methods thought by physics we were brainwashed with in high school.

but that is almost impossible to happen while oil vested interests are running the show.

I live in a town 40 km from Moscow.

[apd007]

Saw your car the other day at the national. I've not looked at the build threads so did a double take when I walked passed your car and glanced under the bonnet. Such an awesome piece of engineering, easily the best car at the show, and probably one of the best, if not the best, project car I've ever seen.

[nbJubilee]

I had not read this topic until today. I saw the car at Blyton and was astounded by the professional result. Talking to Favguy at the meet was inspiring. Now that I have read from start to finish I am impressed even further. Well done.

[BossFox]

here is my take: to convert/build an electric car costs A LOT of money and labor and involves A LOT of modifications.

the average Joe could not afford it, given he is a skilled mechanic and engineer.

that makes me think that it takes A LOT of years to recover the money invested and start feeling you run the car cheaper.

as for charging the batteries from a solar array, that again costs a lot of money to build as it is not free.

all and all, however you put it, electric cars are expensive till they become cheap to run.

the only cheap alternative would be to have the governments release all the patents they suppressed and shelved concerning ways of extracting electrical energy from the environment.

not using methods thought by physics we were brainwashed with in high school.

but that is almost impossible to happen while oil vested interests are running the show.

I live in a town 40 km from Moscow.

Can I suggest that your points about electric cars should be put on a separate thread discussing the positives and negatives?

Rather than cluttering up this fantastic project thread.

It's a great project and it's not always about being a bean counter.

It's about doing something you want to.

[stratosg]

I think that Skoda should embrace the owner of that beauty. He and his car is a living ad for that company.

[ilmor]

Saw this at the national meet, and like many others have said, it blew every other car out the water that was there! And i had a trip out in Richards crazy Yeti! Quite simply superb. A great example with awesome engineering underneath. Id be surprised if there is another VAG car like it! Hats off to you for all the work gone into this! You should take this car to more shows!

[favguy]

Better just finish off the battery update...

 

The front battery pack took a little more work than expected. Despite my cunning planning and measuring everything at least twice, it turned out reality had other ideas and the modules simply wouldn't fit without interference with the cars body and other components.

 

The answer was to dis-assemble the three units, trim 18mm from the top of the side walls and re-assemble "Pisa" style with a rearward facing angle from the vertical of about 5 degrees to each unit! Reversing the connecting cables to sit below the crimped lugs meant I could keep the cabling height below that of the modules terminal busbars, allowing me to just save the 18mm in height. 

 

In the end the small front battery install took more work than all the rest of the battery install!, but the end result is nice  

 

 

 

 

End result is also very splash proof and should keep our damp climate away from the module cans.

[favguy]

Cooling matters...

Due to the car having the ability to run continuously for 80 miles or more now, I decided to upgrade the cooling a little.

Starting with the controller.
On a warm day here a few weeks ago, about 26C, (About as hot as it ever gets!) I noted a maximum temperature whilst range testing uphill on the motorway of 70C from the controller, due to the large heatsink, this quickly dropped back into the 60's under less load, but I'd still like to run the controller cooler for long life, so I've installed this directly under the heatsink:



It's a 140mm Noctua NF-A14 Industrial fan. Runs at 3K RPM and pushes out 158CFM. It's so powerful for its size, when testing it on the bench, It actually lifts off and hovers above the bench when blowing down! I'm looking forward to seeing what difference it makes...

Onto the motor, I've not noticed any particularly hot running here, maximum I measure is about 30C above ambient, but I'm not measuring the Comm. & brush gear, which no doubt is much hotter. Anyway, it can't do any harm to add some more cooling.

I also wanted to close in the Comm. & brush gear to keep out dirt and any splashing water. Although not shown here, I made up a 2 part cowl from galvanised sheet steel that clamps around the motor, with a rubber gasket to make it water tight. It's got a 60mm inlet built in for the ducting from the blower.

Heres the set up:



It's made from a Rule, 4" bilge blower, that blows 240CFM of air with a Ramair high flow filter to keep everything nice and clean.

In both cases, the fans start and run continuously whenever the drive system is activated.

I'll report back with the difference in running temperatures in due course

[DavidIF]

What impact will the fans have on range?given the additional power draw.

By the way great project.

[favguy]

Hi,

The effect on range won't be measurable, they draw about 3.5A from the 12V system when running, this means a current pull from the traction pack to supply the 12V system of an additional 0.35A, I suppose it may reduce the range by a few metres   

[BossFox]

Hi,

The effect on range won't be measurable, they draw about 3.5A from the 12V system when running, this means a current pull from the traction pack to supply the 12V system of an additional 0.35A, I suppose it may reduce the range by a few metres    

 

People used to ask me the same questions in the LEAF, about how far you can go with the wipers on etc...

I think it's due to underestimating how large the main drive battery is and how much power it has to supply to push the car through the air at 60mph.

 

As always, project is looking great.

[Immelmann]

Having recently joined this forum I have only just got around to reading this thread. I like most people am totally amazed at this project. Paul you have created such an amazing vehicle just for the love of it. A simple well done seems so inadequate for this project.

Would love to hear how the car is running.

[Gaz]

I've just read this cracking thread for the first time, start to current (won't say finish) and still don't quite understand how I'd missed it.  What a truly inspiring read.  A lot of what I've read has sailed straight past me, but I get the gist, and am utterly, utterly impressed   

 

As Immelmann has so eloquently said, a simple well done does seem inadequate.  So bloody well done, my hats off to you Paul :clap:      

 

Gaz

[faradaycage]

I've just read this cracking thread for the first time, start to current (won't say finish) and still don't quite understand how I'd missed it.  What a truly inspiring read.  A lot of what I've read has sailed straight past me, but I get the gist, and am utterly, utterly impressed   

 

As Immelmann has so eloquently said, a simple well done does seem inadequate.  So bloody well done, my hats off to you Paul :clap:      

 

Gaz

+1 on that ,an astounding achievement and a great thread to boot. :clap:

[favmac]

Hi I have taken delivery of a new Nissan EV200  electric van, we have now used it for two weeks as a commercial working van and so far it is very good.

 It is all electric as is your Skoda and commercial running costs work out at 2p per mile as opposed to 47p per mile for a normal Diesel van. The Nissan has a claimed working range of 120 miles but fully loaded with heavy kit we reckon 80 miles is a fair assumption to make. It is fitted with a twin charging system "fast charge" which can recharge the lithium batteries from flat to 80 per cent full in under thirty minuets, so a top up whilst out on the road takes no longer than getting fuel and a pie from the petrol station, oh and two a scratch cards, oh and do you have any Rizzler papers please. ( I hate that just get petrol and leave mate)

 

Anyway back to the van, it has power mode and econ mode and inertia power recovery mode. Power mode is drag racing from the lights, it pulls away very fast and has a top whack of about 78 mph, which is a moot point as it can only do 60 by law being a van and will drain the battery faster. Econ mode is a slower pull away from a stand still and extends the battery life. Top speed is around 70 mph. Inertia recovery helps to charge the battery whilst on the move, say rolling down a hill or using the brakes. Cornwall has a lot of hills and on one journey I was actually charging the battery rather than using power and gained an extra miles life. On board read outs give you range, speed and battery condition.

 

This van will be used for travelling to sites where it will be parked up whilst work is carried out on site. Then driven to the next location and so on, our average mileage per day is 60 to 70 miles. We charge it over night at home at a cost of 60p per night, but if we had to go further afield we can fast charge it at service stations and some hotel chains on our route. The built in Sat nav directs you to the nearest charge point and even tells you if it is currently being used. To access the fast charge you buy an E card for about £3 ours was free, plug in and charge her up. Plug points are rolling out across the country and as we speak no one has yet worked out who is paying so a re charge is free if you need it. (nice)

 

To buy the van it is expensive at £19,000 the combi large car version is £22,000, for commercial use a government grant is available which makes the van £10,000. Servicing is £60 per year, But as this is new technology no one knows what the residual values will be, the batteries have a 5 year life and I have been told around £2,000 to replace, so I opted to lease the van for three years. £900 deposit which I can claim the Vat back on, then £270 per month lease / hire no other costs other than tyres, charging up and normal van insurance, no road tax to pay.  Hand it back in three years, no balloon to pay. Our normal vans cost more per month just in fuel without taking into account servicing cost. Although to be fair one van is used for long distance work and it is simpler to use Diesel fuel for distance work at the moment.  So in short if using a van to travel to site then home again or for multi drop local driving I can confirm all electric is a viable option. Good luck with you electric Favorit it will be a great little car.

[BossFox]

Hi I have taken delivery of a new Nissan EV200  electric van, we have now used it for two weeks as a commercial working van and so far it is very good.

 It is all electric as is your Skoda and commercial running costs work out at 2p per mile as opposed to 47p per mile for a normal Diesel van. The Nissan has a claimed working range of 120 miles but fully loaded with heavy kit we reckon 80 miles is a fair assumption to make. It is fitted with a twin charging system "fast charge" which can recharge the lithium batteries from flat to 80 per cent full in under thirty minuets, so a top up whilst out on the road takes no longer than getting fuel and a pie from the petrol station.

 

We averaged 60 miles once loaded on the E-NV200.  You must be driving it really carefully.

LEAF does about 80, but the E-NV200 is less aerodynamic and heavier when loaded while using an identical battery and charging system.

 

60p per night to charge?

The battery is around 24kW and the usable capacity is around 20.5kW.

If you are paying 3p per kW that's amazing.  It's usually around 12-15p which means a charge is almost £3.

Also don't forget to factor in 10% transfer losses for converting electrical energy to chemical.

 

The battery doesn't have a 5 year life and costs more than £2,000 to replace.

Most users of the LEAF (identical battery) are seeing slow degredation of around 10-15% after 3 years or 50,000 miles.

So by the end of your three year lease the range will be around 68 if you are managing to drive it carefully and get 80 out of it.

 

I run a number of Electric cars at work and Nissan have lent me the E-NV200 for a week to test.

We've had several LEAFs for well over a year.  I personally managed 10,000 miles in one of them in 6 months.

 

You might find this thread interesting...  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/265813-going-electric-richards-ev-thread/