Brokers slowly coming online re new models but all seem to be waiting on option prices. Autoebid is currently offering between £2k and £2,612 off most models rising to £3,106 off the 3.6 We can expect bigger discounts to come in next couple of months. With this broker biggest discounts will probably be for pre-reg.

That's a pretty hefty chunk of dollar off the price for an as yet unavailable car.

What idiot dealer has agreed to these prices, totally devalued the brand and the car.

What is more stupid is the prices on the that website are less than we are invoiced for the cars from Skoda.

This is always a tricky one.

With my fleet hat on, I'm happy to see nice discounts, as it means the car will be price competitive with the likes of the Mondeo (where we get huge discounts). Anything that helps the Superb make inroads into this area of the fleet market has got to be good for Skoda.

On the flip side, you run the gauntlet of poor residuals and over supply.

I'm fairly sure that things will even out over time, and let's be honest, any dealer who operates at a loss won't be around for long.

Bagpuss.

Do you know the status of the cars being offered on Ebid eg pre-reg, imports, demonstrators etc?

Drive the Deal, which is offering impressive discounts on new UK Octavias eg 2-3k, is offering a much more modest £200-£300 on Superbs

I agree with you Bagpuss getting lots of Superbs on the road is a great idea as far as brand awareness goes. But offering that much off the price to retail customers is ridiculous, do people really think we make enough out of selling a new car to give £3,000 off and open the doors on a garage that costs several thousand pounds per day just to open the doors and turn the lights on.

I really hope the Superb doesn't become like a Mundano or a Vectra. Vectras are worth so little, we sell used Vauxhalls quite a lot at our Skoda/Alfa site and you would not believe how cheap a 12 month old mega-spec Vectra is worth, or even more amazing is the more pony spec'd ones like a 1.8 Exclusiv, they are worth less than a Corsa Club of the same year.

Anyway... Totally off topic and slightly ranting, sorry just ignor me and I'll shut myself back into my cage.

James - Do you not as a dealer employee find yourself wanting make some enquiries with SUK about how these cars are offered so cheaply. I have a friendly local dealer here and on many occasions we've discussed the sort of prices that the likes of DTD et al are offering being below the invoice price.

Surely if dealers are able to offer this then they are either gambling all of their back end money and bonus or are registering them, selling them before they are allowed and pocketing the defleet bonus.

I know I would want some answers if it were me. It affects all of us, as an owner I can see my residuals plummeting when new cars can be had for less than 6 month old ones.

VRStu - Yes without a doubt I have made enquires with Skoda about these very cheap cars. About 2 years ago we had a chap who wanted to buy a Fabia MKI Bohemia Estate and he found one off the internet for mega cheap. It was a pre-reg done a couple hundred miles and it was very cheap, so I phoned Skoda and asked them to check the plate to see who the supplying dealer was, turns out the car was actually a write off as where all his other 'cheap' stock.

Recently I have made enquires with regards to another internet site to find out who is supplying the cars and yes I worked out who it was and yes they are selling the cars are well into the below the line profit and yes they are totally gambling their back-end money. Or with Fabias/Roomsters sometimes some dealers take a pack offer where they can buy cars outright from Skoda in bulk and claim extra margin which is one way of doing it but Skoda don't typically do this kind of thing, unlike Vauxhall which do it all the time.

I very much doubt they are self-registering the cars as they have to keep them for 3 months before they can sell them on again and they are quite hot on that and we get regular checks to make sure the demos we have on funding are actually here and not sold.

Dealers who gamble their back-end do usually eventually run out of steam because they just make their target and claim the backend money but then next year the target is 15% larger and they have to give even more away to do the target to claim the volume bonus. Come the term when they don't meet the backend they cannot afford to keep the company going as they are keeping it afloat on the assumption that they will get the bonus.

I hope Skoda do sort it out. I don't mind doing tight deals for the right people but I really don't see the point in giving cars away to loose money initially in the hope that you may get what you lost back again in a couple of months. Luckily cars are one of these purchases left that people see the value in dealing with other people and therefore are usually happier to pay a bit more to buy from a dealership.

This was one that I remembered -

http://briskoda.net/forums/octavia-ii/best-new-price-petrol-octy-vrs/92273/4/#post1093174

Do you know the status of the cars being offered on Ebid eg pre-reg, imports, demonstrators etc?

Drive the Deal, which is offering impressive discounts on new UK Octavias eg 2-3k, is offering a much more modest £200-£300 on Superbs

For this level discount I suspect Autoebid will be doing pre-reg but on their site you have choice of new or pre-reg. Drive the deal tend to do new cars and I suspect their discount levels on the Superb will rise very quickly. Whichever way you go remember the brokers get £300-£400 as part of the deal so factor that in when haggling. I've used both without any prob and both cars came direct from UK dealers ie as if bought direct from them. I'm certainly no expert but apparently dealers use brokers to increase turnover. Wife's current car came via dealer after using broker price as negotiating tool (car mags always suggest getting a broker quote before going to dealers). Useful Pre-Reg article from What Car attached How to... save a packet on a pre-reg - Why do dealers sell pre-reg cars? - What Car?

If it helps at all, I had £1400 off list on a Pug 405 back in 1989, so to me £2500 off today seems a bit on the light side, I know my local dealer didn't like the word discount on a brand new one when I enquired, but the S/H one I eventually bought was £10995 two weeks before I bought it, the day i rang on it it had dropped to £10000, and I just put the cards down and offered 9k for it, and eventually gave 9 and a quarter for it, i don't suppose I'd be welcome at your place James would I?

If it helps at all, I had £1400 off list on a Pug 405 back in 1989, so to me £2500 off today seems a bit on the light side, I know my local dealer didn't like the word discount on a brand new one when I enquired, but the S/H one I eventually bought was £10995 two weeks before I bought it, the day i rang on it it had dropped to £10000, and I just put the cards down and offered 9k for it, and eventually gave 9 and a quarter for it, i don't suppose I'd be welcome at your place James would I?

eh yeah that was back in '89 mate. it s WHOLE different world out there now! and second hadn cars are totally different again. the margins in new cars is hundreds, not thousands.

the problem with these drive the deal sites, is yes you do get the cars from dealers (although weve found so many that arent what they say they are!) and dealers do it as they have to. we are trying our best to stay out of it but we are loosing out to dealers which do. it is just to sell units, the way they look at it if your on the net looking then its a deal they wouldnt have got if they didnt offer at that price. so its a deal for nothing.

what makes me laugh is we all like a good price, but these sites may save you money in the intial purchase, but think about the money lost when you come to sell the car! its a false economy really, imoa if you want a best price go buy a nearly new car, otherwise these brokers will kill the network, and destory your residual values!!

eh yeah that was back in '89 mate. it s WHOLE different world out there now! and second hadn cars are totally different again. the margins in new cars is hundreds, not thousands.

the problem with these drive the deal sites, is yes you do get the cars from dealers (although weve found so many that arent what they say they are!) and dealers do it as they have to. we are trying our best to stay out of it but we are loosing out to dealers which do. it is just to sell units, the way they look at it if your on the net looking then its a deal they wouldnt have got if they didnt offer at that price. so its a deal for nothing.

what makes me laugh is we all like a good price, but these sites may save you money in the intial purchase, but think about the money lost when you come to sell the car! its a false economy really, imoa if you want a best price go buy a nearly new car, otherwise these brokers will kill the network, and destory your residual values!!

I thought this was how dealers thought until my experience buying my Octavia vRS in 2006.

I printed out my broker deal and offered 3 dealers to sign there and then if they matched it, all 3 refused preferring instead to try and scare me off the broker deal. Needless to say I phoned the broker and the car duly arrived 3 weeks later.

Not quite sure about your point about second hand values, broker(dealer) sourced cars are worth the same at trade in time as a dealer sourced car so you will lose a lot more buying from a dealer!

Dan

I doubt they refused to match it I imagine they simply couldn't, as Dean pointed out earlier out working margins really are quite minimal.

I doubt they refused to match it I imagine they simply couldn't, as Dean pointed out earlier out working margins really are quite minimal.

I take your point James, but I presume the dealers who supply the brokers are trying to drive volume in order to trigger some kind of volume bonus(?)...aren't my local dealers also trying to drive volume? Would they not rather take my deal (as woodenspatulas said they were never going to sell a car to a customer like me at their price) and add some volume to their bottom line?

Dan

I can understand why a dealer might sell one car at a loss to get that one extra car to make target which is worth more than the loss on the car. But a dealer that does it all the time won't last long as Skoda will just up your targets the following year meaning that you will have to sell even more cars for less profit and having to rely on your volume bonus. You can't keep a garage afloat on turnover.

I now and again get phone calls from brokers asking me to supply a car at a massive loss, even if I was desperate for target I'd rather not supply a broker with a car. I'd much rather phone all my recently active customers relative to the cars I need to move on and offer them the car at a nice price.

I appreciate all customers want to get the best deal possible as we all do, but I think with cars people still like to deal with people and I like to think that the service both during sale and aftersale has surely got to be worth something over the cost of a broker.

So I suppose a broker simply has the ability to find a dealer that is desperate to make a sale.

Incidentally my local dealer gave me top level service during an initial fairly major fault with my car.

Take your point about relationships, I'm in sales myself so realise how important it is.

Dan

I'm never buying new again anyway, I got away with it by the skin of my teeth last time, if I'd paid the £10495 list I would've had another £1500 on credit plus interest to lose in the px/sell on price, as it was, as it was a cab I was able to look at the repayments as depreciation, add in the discounted price which in those days was not considered, it was assumed I'd paid full list, anyway the car was a complete dog, as all the early 405's were and I eventually took £4500 off the dealer for it as a no car deal which gave me the £2k deposit back and cleared the finance owing.

Next car for me is looking increasingly like a Passat, initially I had doubts about the Superb, but since I got shot of the dealer reliance and have full control on who repairs it and services it she's grown on me a huge amount, if I can't find a Passat for the right money I will hold the Superb another 18 mths and deal on a year old Insignia probably, VAG dealer prices are stupid money, I could wear it if the PX money matched it, but they want to give buttons and sell for near list on year old cars, good business if you can get it, but I like to Dom Littlewood it in the showroom, and VAG dealers don't like Dom one bit.

As far as I know Auto e-bid take your order and then fax/email all the dealers with the offer of an order if they match the price. They also ask, if you can't do that price, what can you do?

I wonder how many orders remain at their advertised price?

As far as I know Auto e-bid take your order and then fax/email all the dealers with the offer of an order if they match the price. They also ask, if you can't do that price, what can you do?

I wonder how many orders remain at their advertised price?

Actually it's an e-auction. The dealers are notified that someone is after a car with the spec etc. The buyer than sets the period for the auction eg 5 days and then you sit back and watch the bids come in. Most bids come in on the last day. If nobody matches the advertised discount you get your money back. Bought two cars this way and service was excellent, you end up with a dealer just as if you walked into their show room. The prices displayed are the ones the last buyer got or one that a dealer has committed to. Bought a Toyota (via Drivethedeal) and even after great discount the annoying thing was that they still said that I should have gone to them first for bigger discount so you can't win! Problem is of course you don't know who dealer is until you sign on dotted line. The TIP was cheaper through broker than it was for a low mileage dealer supplied used. You lose on depreciation (especially on the Superbs) so this is only way to minimise the hit.

As a punter, if I go to a Skoda dealer and he wants 19k for a 20k car but there is a broker who will quite happily supply for 16k it isn't hard to work out who I will go with, I'm begining to think it's catch the mug at the dealer, while selling for minimums from a broker, I bet if it's looked into Skoda are supplying the brokers, and to add, my mate bought an 05 brand new 1.9 Elegance auto with solar roof at 22k list for 17k 3 yrs ago, if I wants one I will bell my sales manager mate at a Skoda dealer and I will get a 20k car for 16k or less, cos there's a recession on the way and the Darling tax, add in that the Superb still looks like a last gen car, abiet a very capable spec'd car, and I'd be suprised if you can't get a SE 2.0 DSG for 16k.

Damn. Prices have gone up at Broadspeed. Elegance CR 170 up from £19,198 to £19,423.

Now up to £19871!

...if I wants one I will bell my sales manager mate at a Skoda dealer and I will get a 20k car for 16k or less, cos there's a recession on the way and the Darling tax...

Why does a recession and tax increase our margins?

If anything it is making it worse. A large franchise dealer around my way is having to write off £400,000 per month in depreciation. We are having to be tighter than ever with our deals. Especially with part exchanges, if you underwrite something for August and then it turns up in September you certainly don't want it coming in at August money.

Not quite sure about your point about second hand values, broker(dealer) sourced cars are worth the same at trade in time as a dealer sourced car so you will lose a lot more buying from a dealer!

Dan

sorry i didnt make that clearer. i didnt mean just the broker sourced cars will be worth less, ALL skodas bought will be worth less.

take for example imported cars. they are worth less simply due to the fact that they are imported at a cheaper price. everyone knows that so they are worth less than uk spec cars. even though allot of the imports are either exactly the same or better spec'd than proper uk sourced cars. its all down to the known fact they cost less so take a 4 year old car so warranty issues dont effect its price, its still worth less than a uk one.

so if it gets to the point where alot of the cars are bought at broker prices, the used market will take a dip, causing everyone who owns the cars grief as their cars drop in price. cos lets face it if you can get a 20k car for 17k, why would you pay 15k for a year old one? you wouldnt, so it drops to 12K. effectively hurting everyone.

as has been said if we have a customer who comes in with a broker quote, we will do our best to match it and cover our costs and make a bit of profit. if thats not good enough then they are more than welcome to go deal with the broker of course. But when their local dealer folds (extreme i know) and they then have problems finding a dealer to service or deal with warranty issues, is it worth the few hundred quid you saved at the start?

quite a few of these brokers simply send the information out to us via fax or email and if a dealer has that particular car that they need to get out of, or that they are very close to a target they would of course be silly not to sell it that way. i think thats how it all started and its got out of hand now. we ourselves have already had brokers asking us for our best price on the new superb, but we have refused anything but the list price to them. we would rather deal directly with a customer and negoiate than let these middle men make money out of us all.