Belgian Grand Prix, Your predictions.

[cheezemonkhai]

So dead and over that engine comms show that Hamilton was 6mph slower than the Ferrari after he let him past and as such wouldn't have actually gained from the off.

[Ender]

Slower by 6 KPH from cutting the corner and being on that astro stuff, not slower from lifting and giving back the place, fact is he was in front after the corner he needed to lift and let kimmie by but failed to

[VRStu]

This arguement is now dead and over thankfully.

In your opinion of course

[gadgetman]

This would be what, 9 years of the constructors and drivers championship?

Anyone cynical would claim they were being handed 10 years at the top.

[cheezemonkhai]

Telemetry showed 6 mph/kph slower on the start finish straight after he slowed to let him past.

F1 used to stand for Formula One, however these days it's more of a Ferrari Won! It's amazing how Ferrari will be getting over 50% of the total F1 funding in the contract, with the rest of the teams sharing the rest. Yeah really good fair deal there

[Lady Elanore]

I hope somebody has told Ron Dennis about this thread, he should stop thinking about an appeal as he can see the truth now.

[KenONeill]

Oh come on boys admit it, we are all Force India fans at heart;).

I used to be a Minardi fan.

[KenONeill]

Ok the arguement is over Hamilton deserved his penalty, ni matter what anybody says the arguement is now over and we have proof, after hearing this and seeing it I expect this to be admitted if its not then their is an issue with peoples sanity.

Dailymotion - www.FormulaMag.com - Hamilton-Kimi, a video from Budhardt. F1, Belgium, 2008, Hamilton, ???????

This my friends is on board exclusive footage of the lap in question, you will ride on Hamiltons car and see that Kimi broke early and that Lewis was not ahead in the corner but tellingly you will also NOT hear a LIFT or an EASE off of the throttle from Hamilton.

This arguement is now dead and over thankfully.

So it's an "unfair advantage" to be going slower than another car then? In that case, when are Force India and Honda going to be disqualified from the championship?

[KenONeill]

I love the way you quote half a story yet again...... as everybody knows data has transfered between F1 teams since the year dot.

I have a Mr Kettle for you on 2.

In the entire history of F1, there have only been 2 proven instances of team A actually posessing technical drawings and specifications of team B's car without the agreement of team B. Arrows - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in 1977, and Team Slimeball last year.

[Dr Zoidberg]

This arguement is now dead and over thankfully.

Why?

Because some schoolkid on the internet said so?

[Johnny50]

fact is he was in front after the corner he needed to lift and let kimmie by but failed to

Either way, Kimi still got past on the straight, and Hamilton didn't try to block etc...

So Hamilton still gave up the place to Kimi.

[ScoobyChris]

This my friends is on board exclusive footage of the lap in question, you will ride on Hamiltons car and see that Kimi broke early and that Lewis was not ahead in the corner but tellingly you will also NOT hear a LIFT or an EASE off of the throttle from Hamilton.

This arguement is now dead and over thankfully.

It's not that exclusive as there's similar footage on Youtube (and has been since yesterday morning)

Here's some analysis by a chap who also has close ties with F1

First, you can see that Raikkonen braked for the chicane very early, so that Hamilton was forced to go around him to the left. This was no case of Hamilton's outbraking himself and hoping to exploit the escape road. It is even possible that Raikkonen intentionally brake-tested Hamilton.

Then when he is midway through the right-hand part of the chicane, you can see how Hamilton's car is totally stable. He clearly could have made it 'round the right-hander if left to his own devices - more evidence that he had not overcooked it into the bend in the hope of exploiting the escape road.

Now Hamilton is in the middle of the right-hander, with a lot of RH lock on. Everything is as normal.

Then Hamilton abruptly turns left, onto the escape road, after Raikkonen's car has come over on him and forced him off the track.

Some people who don't know how cars work have speculated that, instead of taking the escape road, Hamilton could have "tucked in" behind Raikkonen in mid-bend. That is nonsense because, if Hamilton had lifted in mid-bend with a lot of lock on and already at the limit of grip, his car would immediately have spun.

Also, after they have exited the chicane, you can see Hamilton's helmet rotate to the right, and stay there, as he looked and waited for Raikkonen's car to come past him, back into the lead.

Considering how twitchy the Ferrari was in the wet and how stable the McLaren was, if Lewis had really wanted to take the advantage he would have left Kimi behind on the straight!

Chris

[octavia1.4]

i don't know why this is still going. he gained an advantage. if he stayed behind kimi through the first corner i doubt he would have been close enough to out brake him into turn one. as for kimi passing under yellow flags i'm disapointed he didn't get a penalty. the problem with lewis is that he is still to wreckless. i think he is a great driver as i do kimi. and another thing is that lewis is way too over hypped in the british media. every race the itv crew drone on and on about hamilton. this cannot be helping his development as a world class driver. there needs to be a shake up in the fai (or the fail as i call it) and soon and the first thing to do is get rid of nazi loving coc k and and bernie. before some people start i'm typing this as an F1 fan and not of a fan of any 1 team as i havent followed a team sence eddie jordan sold out. lewis should have concided the next corner to kimi as it was obvious that he had the speed and balls to get him anyway. thats my opinion on it anyways

[KenONeill]

i don't know why this is still going. he gained an advantage. if he stayed behind kimi through the first corner i doubt he would have been close enough to out brake him into turn one. as for kimi passing under yellow flags i'm disapointed he didn't get a penalty. the problem with lewis is that he is still to wreckless. i think he is a great driver as i do kimi. and another thing is that lewis is way too over hypped in the british media. every race the itv crew drone on and on about hamilton. this cannot be helping his development as a world class driver. there needs to be a shake up in the fai (or the fail as i call it) and soon and the first thing to do is get rid of nazi loving coc k and and bernie. before some people start i'm typing this as an F1 fan and not of a fan of any 1 team as i havent followed a team sence eddie jordan sold out. lewis should have concided the next corner to kimi as it was obvious that he had the speed and balls to get him anyway. thats my opinion on it anyways

So you should never try to make an overtaking manoevre that can't be completed by the exit of the turn you start making it into?

[octavia1.4]

imo with conditions the way they were no. on a dry track on the other hand there would be no problem. i just think it was a little bit needlessly reckless on hamiltons part. and as for the whole argument about the did he didnt he gain an advantage another spin to put on it is that kimi was only 3 or 4 seconds back in the lead which means the officals could have took that as not entirly giving up all the advantage he gained. i will admit it was the best end to a race i've seen this year but lewis needs to calm himself or he will end up never winning the championship. another thing that was said before that i agree with is that if the dicision went the other way all the people that have a problem with the dicision would be on here saying it was deserved and that kimi should have gotten the 25 sec penilty. both lewis and the team knew at the time the risk that was taken. surely lewis knew that even though he conceded the position that taking it back so quick could have resulted in this happining and if he didn't the team sure as hell should have.

[Lady Elanore]

Watching this Lewis child is a bit like watching Schuey. He chucks a car into a corner at ridiculous speed and figures he can sport out the mess once things start going a little pair shape. The thing is like Schuey, he usually can and unlike most of the other drivers, who simply can’t.

Disclaimer should add this thought is that of the authors and in no way removes the right to express yourselves and disagree.

[KenONeill]

Watching this Lewis child is a bit like watching Schuey. He chucks a car into a corner at ridiculous speed and figures he can sport out the mess once things start going a little pair shape. The thing is like Schuey, he usually can and unlike most of the other drivers, who simply can’t.

Disclaimer should add this thought is that of the authors and in no way removes the right to express yourselves and disagree.

That's fair; I particularly thought that when he took the Liana round the TG track faster in the very wet than some of his contemporaries managed in the dry.

[Lady Elanore]

I wish it was just man on man action (if you see what I mean) car v car and let them slug it out on the track. The poll above suggests on that level, most people think it was a poor result. I suppose the rule book interpretation can not said to be wrong, just that it is a little ambiguous.

[KenONeill]

The amended result actually suits me very well in some ways; mostly the ones where Filipe wins the 2008 championship, and removes pretty much all the reasons people are suggesting as to why Ferrari should sign Alonso for 2010 in the process.

[octavia1.4]

Watching this Lewis child is a bit like watching Schuey. He chucks a car into a corner at ridiculous speed and figures he can sport out the mess once things start going a little pair shape. The thing is like Schuey, he usually can and unlike most of the other drivers, who simply can’t.

Disclaimer should add this thought is that of the authors and in no way removes the right to express yourselves and disagree.

thats, in a way, is what i was trying to say. he's good no one that knows sh!t about F1 will argue that. but he is still learning and thats where all the hype comes into it. he probibly feeels he has to go out and drive like that coz so many people arwe now expecting him to do well. we wont imo see the true skills of lewis hamilton for anothert season or two

[Lady Elanore]

We may never see anyone’s true skills if the rule book and stewards continue to collude and hence emasculate the drivers.:(

Gilles Villneuve would never have gotton out of the Pits with todays shambolic system:thumbdwn:

[cheezemonkhai]

Mr Senna and Mr Prost used to push each other off and lock wheels regularly, it was fucn. Stop with the f**king shambolic rules that turns F1 from man pitting against man to see who can win into a pure tech and procession parade :(

[redbaron]

FFS Piquet senoir used to get out of the car and tuuat people that got in his way..... used to be a mans sport..... now if they drive like men they are punished

[KenONeill]

FFS Piquet senoir used to get out of the car and tuuat people that got in his way..... used to be a mans sport..... now if they drive like men they are punished

He did that once, literally.

[Ender]

Why?

Because some schoolkid on the internet said so?

Your a muppet go away fool.

It does not matter that due to the respective lines Kimmi was 6 KPH faster on the exit what matters is that Lewis needed to lift and be seen to of done so by the stewards, Lewis is young and still only mid way into his second year, he has an equal if not better car then the rest and needs to learn to chill, from the link I posted the way he caught Kimi it was only a matter of time before he passed him, It did not need doing then!.

Yes you may of relised im a Ferrari fan and yes the penalty was harsh, but also as a reasonably stable person I can see why he gained An advantage here, He needed to lift to show the stewards yes I have lifted end of story then in the next long stretch just drive right by Kimi, I dont think this is Hamiltons fault I feel its the teams they should of said Lewis LIFT so their is no doubt about it but unfortuantly he didnt they took for granted Kimi being a shade faster and going by him just! the team needed to say Lewis LIFT we are soooo much faster, like at yellows and double waved Yellows you have to lift and due to the speed of a forumla1 car some drivers hold a hand in the air to say im going slower just so their is no doubt.

I mean come on people, Hamilton deserved to win due to his better driving/car in the last few laps of the wet, you can clearly here in the link I posted that their was no lift, no delay in full throttle, dont you think the team needed to eradicate this grey area? the rule is GIVE the place back, the FACT is he didnt and because of the conditions he gained an advantage in the dry Kimi would of just driven away thus no advantage but because it was wet we got this situation.

I dont like Macca but thats because of Ron dennis, I however dont mind Hamilton, yes he is the kind of person who annoys most people, most hamilton fans dont like him as a person but as a racing driver they love him as do I for the excitement he brings, but come on lets be realistic the penalty was harsh but fair.