Hi

Has anyone tried Green Stuf brake pads for the superb?

SKODA SUPERB REAR UPGRADE BRAKE PAD SET BRAND NEW EBC on eBay, also, Audi, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 24-Oct-08 11:19:49 BST)

They are made by EBC and are suposed to be a lot cleaner on your alloys than standard pads.

Cheers

Pete

IMHO Green Stuff are crap.

IMHO Green Stuff are crap.

I'm surprised at that, I've only heard good stuff about Green Stuff (lol, sorry).

What makes you say they're crap Lummox?

IMHO Green Stuff are crap.

6 years use over total of 140k miles on 2 cars. Really do increase braking efficiency, my estimate is by 20%-30% compared to OEM pads.

Trouble-free to put on, you just have to remember about extra heat and use DOT 5.1 fluid and anti-seize wherever needed (edges and back). They come with shims in the package.

Well, that's my 2 pence. In other words, at least to me they are not crap at all, unless you know even better braking pads. In fact, I have just put new pads and disc this afternoon on the rear of my Octavia.

BTW, I use them only with standard rotors, often get EBC ones. The slotted/dotted are not worth it really, wear out quickly and eat the pads.

Thanks for the replies guys.

DieselV6 - do they really need a change of brake fluid of a higher spec ?

Do they get much hotter than the OEM parts & does this extra heat cause problems with the discs like warping?

Lastly, do your wheels stay any cleaner as is the claim?

Lummox, what experiences have you had/witnessed that have given you your negative opinion?

Cheers

Pete:D

While we are on braking issues - what sort of mileage should you expect from a superb with regard to front & rear pads & discs?

Thanks

Pete

Thanks for the replies guys.

DieselV6 - do they really need a change of brake fluid of a higher spec ?

Do they get much hotter than the OEM parts & does this extra heat cause problems with the discs like warping?

Lastly, do your wheels stay any cleaner as is the claim?

Lummox, what experiences have you had/witnessed that have given you your negative opinion?

Cheers

Pete:D

Keep in mind the kevlar pads have higher friction. Better braking = more heat. That's why Audis have much larger brake discs - they cool faster and distribute heat generated by pad over larger area.

Generally, these pads don't need uprated fluid, but they do brake well enough to boil factory fluid. I did that once on motorway, emergency braking from around 120mph to 60mph. Mind you, on stock pads I'd not have boiled the fluid, but I'd most likely have been inside the truck that pulled up right in front of me.

Regarding disc warping, no problem on fronts, but these pads really do eat rear discs on the Superb - but then again even stock pads do that. So I will use at least 2 sets of pads on the front, and I changed both pads and discs on the rear last time. Octavia is much nicer on the rear discs and I was able to use 2 sets on these.

The wheels do stay cleaner than with OEM pads, but there is plenty of road dirt to muck them anyway.

While we are on braking issues - what sort of mileage should you expect from a superb with regard to front & rear pads & discs?

Thanks

Pete

I got about 35k from rear pads and I will get about 42k-48k from the fronts. Both numbers for EBC Green, as I was too scared to drive Superb at speed with factory brake pads (Mine's a heavy 2.5V6 TDI one, and you can fade stock pads by braking 70mph-0 twice in quick succession)

Keep in mind that the best solution to better brakes is to fit bigger discs and high friction pads, but that's costly and really makes sense on an older car when there's caliper work to do. Or when you win lottery...

Thanks for the info most informative

Pete :-)

My experiance is based on nothing other than being a supplier for EBC in the past and having to deal with nothing but complaints about squealing, judder and the fact they are useless as soon as they get any real heat into them.

Much better pads on the market.

IMHO Green Stuff are crap.

I have to agree here.

The red stuff ceramic (v3) are IMHO very good but , again IMHO, the greens really can't deal with a heavier car and heavy braking from fast speeds. Certainly the last pair i saw fell apart quite badly.

Then again they have changed all the compounds in the last few years so I may be out of date on the greens.

FWIW putting 312mm callipers and discs on certain Octy, Octy II, and passat superb isn't that big or expensive a job. I fyou were doing the pads and discs anyway it's just buying a pair of carriers for the callipers if you have the correct 288mm set up already.

it's just buying a pair of carriers for the callipers if you have the correct 288mm set up already.

Just to clarify things to myself, what you mean by "correct setup"?:confused: There could be incorrect setup also?

I have to agree here.

The red stuff ceramic (v3) are IMHO very good but , again IMHO, the greens really can't deal with a heavier car and heavy braking from fast speeds. Certainly the last pair i saw fell apart quite badly.

Then again they have changed all the compounds in the last few years so I may be out of date on the greens.

FWIW putting 312mm callipers and discs on certain Octy, Octy II, and passat superb isn't that big or expensive a job. I fyou were doing the pads and discs anyway it's just buying a pair of carriers for the callipers if you have the correct 288mm set up already.

The first ever green pads I bought (ca 7 years ago) were much worse than the next, which seems to confirm that the material has changed. Squeal has long been cured by supplying shims with the pads.

Red stuff might be better, don't know as it was more expensive and I am happy with the greens.

For the 312mm brakes, you need the TEVES callipers on Octavia (not FSIII, not 280mm disc). Superbs have ATE callipers which might be possible to move to 312mm, although the calliper part number is different.

In any case I also would be interested to know if it's possible to swap 312mm discs for the Superb, and what pads to use with that setup. :confused:

Keep in mind that bigger discs just reduce heating problem and do not significantly increase the braking force (max 10% due to pad working over larger radius in 312mm brakes). To increase braking force you need either larger friction coefficient (so non-OEM pads such as EBC green and not sure if red has increased friction coefficient too), or stronger pressure on the pad (as in different callipers).

Thanks for clearing it up, Lummox.

For my 2p's worth, I've only used Green on my old 106 which of course was a faster, lighter car. They only improved the brakes. Red Stuff are designed primarily as a track day pad which is durable enough (and more to the point, works well enough from cold) for road use.

As for the Superb, I have been thinking about brake upgrades recently though, a few bit stops on the motorway not to mention some "brisk" back lane driving... so I'll add my name to the 312mm conversion possibility. I realise it's popular with the Fabia community, but I've not given this much consideration as my mum doesn't, er, boil her brake fluid. AFAIK anyway

For the 312mm brakes, you need the TEVES callipers on Octavia (not FSIII, not 280mm disc). Superbs have ATE callipers which might be possible to move to 312mm, although the calliper part number is different.

I thought Superb with the biggest diesel/petrol engine is already equipped with 312 mm front discs? :confused: At least vag-cat shows both choises.

In any case I also would be interested to know if it's possible to swap 312mm discs for the Superb, and what pads to use with that setup. :confused:

Count me in as well.

Teves and ATE are the same thing - the Company is Alfred TEves - hence "ATE".

Pity the Americans got hold of them, as they have most other component suppliers with the exception of Bosch.

rotodiesel.

I thought Superb with the biggest diesel/petrol engine is already equipped with 312 mm front discs? :confused: At least vag-cat shows both choises.

Count me in as well.

I'll check next weekend - service time

But I would not be surprised if I had 288mm ones, as it the previous car that I sourced from Ireland also had smaller 280mm instead of 288mm, and older pads (FSIII caliper) that work over smaller area

Thanks for the tip on the names Rotodiesel, I only looked at ETKA pages for the differences, had no need to change front discs so far (just pads and fluid)

In any case, ETKA lists different caliper number and different pad number for the 288mm and 312mm, so it would be good to get a confirmation whether it is just the discs and carriers that need to be replaced.

I just checked that the pads could be the same, at least EBC quotes the same for 288mm and 312mm. So now it's only the calliper... and I suspect the difference there may be internal, ie rate (piston size etc.). My guess is that the splash shields should also be replaced for the bigger ones.

Funnily enough, I have new EBC green front pads waiting to be replaced this Friday. I might postpone it if my brakes are 288mm and change the discs too...

The parts list that I gathered so far to do it properly:

2x front pads (EBC green DP21483, got them already)

2x front discs (312x255mm, EBC D1045)

2x 4B0615125A brake calliper carrier with pins and bolts,

4x N90708502 self-locking bolt M12X1,5X35 (just in case)

1x 3B0615311 or 3U0615311 splash shield left

1x 3B0615312 or 3U0615311 splash shield right

still need to check 3B0615313 water deflector but perhaps it's similar to existing one.

There is also N10540901 cable tie :-)

The carriers cost as much as the discs, and the whole new parts list is under stlg350

Anyway, that's what you get for reading these forums - I now cannot get the extra 10% braking force and reduced fade out of my head ... when the whole project might be a moot point if I already have 312mm brakes on or if the callipers don't fit to larger carriers

Edited 8 October, 200817 yr by dieselV6

The parts list that I gathered so far to do it properly:

2x front pads (EBC green DP21483, got them already)

2x front discs (312x255mm, EBC D1045)

2x 4B0615125A brake calliper carrier with pins and bolts,

4x N90708502 self-locking bolt M12X1,5X35 (just in case)

1x 3B0615311 splash shield left

1x 3B0615312 splash shield right

still need to check 3B0615313 water deflector but perhaps it's similar to existing one.

There is also N10540901 cable tie :-)

The carriers cost as much as the discs, and the whole new parts list is under stlg350

Anyway, that's what you get for reading these forums - I now cannot get the extra 10% braking force and reduced fade out of my head ... when the whole project might be a moot point if I already have 312mm brakes on or if the callipers don't fit to larger carriers

*muses*

Keep us updated.

Do a search on pads here.

Been quite a few opinions on them.

DieselV6 - you mentioned in an earlier post about using Dot 5.1 brake fluid.

Is this able to be introduced to the system by draing off existing & keep adding new until all fluid is changed or does the system requires a complete strip down and clean prior to filling with dot 5.1 fluid?

Is dot 5.1 a synthetic fluid that does not absorb moisture?

I did have my brake fluid changed at the first, 2 yr, service a year last June. I thought this 2 yr periodicity was due to the fluid being hydrascopic but have read recently that it is required as the fluid contains anti-corroosive additives that loose their protective properties.

Pete

DOT 5.1 is not a silicone based fluid and therefore is hygroscopic as is DOT 3 or 4, which of course means it needs changing. I understand the only difference is it's higher boiling point.

AFAIK, for the same reason doesn't need a strip down either - the method you describe is fine as long as you ensure you get all of the old stuff out.

DieselV6 - you mentioned in an earlier post about using Dot 5.1 brake fluid.

Pete

Exactly as Bluefox had said, DOT5.1 is the same fluid type as DOT4, so it mixes freely with your existing stuff. You have to replace it every 2 years just like DOT4, no strp/cleaning required.

Do NOT confuse / mix with DOT5, which is silicone based, not glycol.

The only thing I did was to use a bit more fluid to make sure all of the old one is flushed out. I flushed 200ml clutch, 400ml left rear, 3x200ml other wheels and 200ml clutch again. I started from clutch because I wanted to make sure I can do it , since access to the clutch nipple is horrible on V6TDI 6-spd. (no real access from top even after removing coolant reservoir, I had to go in from the underside), and because I figured out that this way I will not have to partially drain the fluid from the reservoir before doing all the brakes.

That gives 1.5l brake fluid 2X 400ml +3x 200ml flush, 100ml reserve

Press brake pedal and clutch pedal several times when doing the clutch and the first wheel.

Also, for the knowledge-hungry , below is something I picked up a while ago: boiling points in wet and dry for various fluids, remember it is the wet boiling point that you are interested in for everyday use.

Wet Dry

270 310 Castrol SRF - ridiculously expensive, racing use only

216 312 Motul RBF600 - better durability than Castrol, a lot lower price

210 310 AP Racing 600

185 265 Motul 5.1

184 286 Castrol Response, Super Dot 4

180 260 DOT5.1

173 261 Valvoline SynPower

155 230 DOT4

As you can see, with any DOT5.1 fluid you go from 155deg C to 180degC.

Castrol Response Super Dot4 was a good fluid (I use it), Halfords used to sell it but don't anymore, at least not in my area. My favourite for the next brake fluid change is Motul RBF600 - good price and again 30deg higher wet boiling point.

Enjoy :-)

As you can see, with any DOT5.1 fluid you go from 155deg C to 180degC.

Castrol Response Super Dot4 was a good fluid (I use it), Halfords used to sell it but don't anymore, at least not in my area. My favourite for the next brake fluid change is Motul RBF600 - good price and again 30deg higher wet boiling point.

Thanks for the info

We did used to stock Super DOT 4 and some stores have residuals. There is a possibility that we can get this to order - for a start we can order speciality oils from Castrol et al, and also we buy off local factors. So, if they stock it, so do we... but of course unless you've got a trade card it'll be better buying it directly from the other factor.

One info I found on large brakes in Audi A6 data was that they do not recommend using 16in steel rims for the large brakes. Alloys are OK. This could be a problem for me since I have winter tyres on steel rims. To be honest, from the note it was not clear whether they meant 312mm, or the RS6 brakes, so the jury is still out.

Anyway, I'll check the size this weekend, if they're 312mm it's a moot point.

Thanks for the replies & information guys - much appreciated

Pete