If no one discounted cars and we sold the car for £22k then buying an ex-demo 6 month old one for £20k would sound like a good deal.

As for retailing a 6 month old £22k car for £14k are you insane? If we offered you £13k for a 6 month old car as a part exchange would you be impressed or would you rather get £18k for it which would be achievable if no one discounted cars.

james - you really do need to go to the pub or something.....skoda's are you day job...switch off !!!! LOL

(only joking - nice to see you care !!! might tempt me to buy from you afterall....now about that free delivery to lincoln.... ?)

If no one discounted cars and we sold the car for £22k then buying an ex-demo 6 month old one for £20k would sound like a good deal.

As for retailing a 6 month old £22k car for £14k are you insane? If we offered you £13k for a 6 month old car as a part exchange would you be impressed or would you rather get £18k for it which would be achievable if no one discounted cars.

But we dont live in that world, people will sell a £22K for £20K (or less) and hence it is crazy to opt to pay an additional £2K for a car and hence lose an extra £2K in depreciation.

As for the 6 month old car...I did say I was baiting!

Dan

sorry - i apologise for inappropriate use of an apostrophe in my last posting. "skoda's" should of course have been "skodas" . i will go outside and beat myself with a large branch....

The bottom line here is that new cars are over priced without a significant discount. Any private buyer purchasing a new car needs to do so with their eyes wide open. you WILL loose a significant amount of the value as soon as you drive off ergo get it as cheap as possible. I speak with authority here being stupid enough to have had six news cars in the last 5 years, I dread to even contemplate how much cash I poured down the drain.

I agree with jcblincs, friendly persuasive words of encouragement from a friendly 'local' dealer would not be enough to get me to buy a car more expensively than i have to. Once you have taken delivery most salesmen (James you may be an exception here) couldn't give two stuffs about you.

The bottom line here is that new cars are over priced without a significant discount. Any private buyer purchasing a new car needs to do so with their eyes wide open. you WILL loose a significant amount of the value as soon as you drive off ergo get it as cheap as possible. I speak with authority here being stupid enough to have had six news cars in the last 5 years, I dread to even contemplate how much cash I poured down the drain.

I agree with jcblincs, friendly persuasive words of encouragement from a friendly 'local' dealer would not be enough to get me to buy a car more expensively than i have to. Once you have taken delivery most salesmen (James you may be an exception here) couldn't give two stuffs about you.

everyones missing the point though. dealers are like any other business, they are there to make a profit. these brokers are pushing dealers to sell cars at a loss. you dont have to be a smart guy to see thats bad for business! so when the dealers all go becuase they cant afford to stay open. where do you go to test drive the car? where do you go for advice?(not everyone is ready for the internet yet) and most importantly

WHOS GOING TO PROVIDE THE BROKERS WITH THE CARS???

oh and you do still know even if you buy a car at cost price you are still going to loose roughly the same amount as you drive it off the forecourt, as no matter what you pay you loose the VAT, first reg fee, RFL and a chunk of money as its now got another owner.

Edited 4 October, 200817 yr by woodenspatulas

Losing "roughly the same amount as you drive it off the forcourt"? I don't know how you can say that. You're losing value because of the things you mentioned plus maybe an additional £3000 if you paid list.

everyones missing the point though. dealers are like any other business, they are there to make a profit. these brokers are pushing dealers to sell cars at a loss.

I do not believe that dealers are making a loss on a car they sell through a broker. The price paid buying through a broker is subsidised by other punters paying retail prices at close to list. My understanding is that for some manufacturers volume bonuses are extremely attractive and more than make up for discounts given through retail/broker customers.

Interesting BMW have recently clamped down heavily on discounting through brokers, I think as a result of an enormous number of customer complaints because of the rapidly falling residuals created by mass broker discounting. At one stage you could easily manage a 11%-12% discount through some well known brokers, to my knowledge most small dealer basic profit margins are about 8% in a new BMW (not taking into account the highly prized volume bonuses).

I do not believe that dealers are making a loss on a car they sell through a broker. The price paid buying through a broker is subsidised by other punters paying retail prices at close to list. My understanding is that for some manufacturers volume bonuses are extremely attractive and more than make up for discounts given through retail/broker customers.

Interesting BMW have recently clamped down heavily on discounting through brokers, I think as a result of an enormous number of customer complaints because of the rapidly falling residuals created by mass broker discounting. At one stage you could easily manage a 11%-12% discount through some well known brokers, to my knowledge most small dealer basic profit margins are about 8% in a new BMW (not taking into account the highly prized volume bonuses).

dont beleieve it then, but ive got no reason to lie on here. i tell it like it is. im also leaving skoda at the end of the month so i coudlnt give a monkey if you beleive me or not. but i see the discounts and i see the profits, which are the same for every skoda dealer. yes back end money is good, but you are betting on money thats not yours yet and taking a massive gamble. if a dealer does 10 cars, 5 at broker prices and looses per car, then does a bit of discount of the rest, but then is 1 car away from target i would bet my backside that from the sale of cars alone he would have made a loss. that means hes relying on finance and add ons to make money to open the doors next month. its tough and i think it wont be long before skoda have to look at doing the same as bmw.

we arent saying no to discounts, just simply asking to be allowed to make a profit. is that too much to ask as a business? or do you want to start paying taxes towards our upkeep like we do for our banks?

Losing "roughly the same amount as you drive it off the forcourt"? I don't know how you can say that. You're losing value because of the things you mentioned plus maybe an additional £3000 if you paid list.

and why isnt that the roughly the same as if you buy a car at a broker price?

and 3k is a bit much, unless of course you actually own a citroen???

mr spatula, you are wasting you breath on chavs that believe that cos its on the internet it must be the best deal. They have no concept that the best deal is the one that gives the most pleasing ownership experience.... not the one that saves a hundred quid or so.....

wonder if they buy tesco value beans or heinz....?

wonder if they buy tesco value beans or heinz....?

tesco value everday

but i go and haggle on the price and take in a print out from asda website

They have no concept that the best deal is the one that gives the most pleasing ownership experience.... not the one that saves a hundred quid or so.....

But we're not talking about a hundred quid are we? I'm talking a £3k diference for a 170 cr Elegance with extras.

And do you honestly think that dalers will go bust? And stop selling cars? More likely if we all bought from brokers, we would force their hand and maybe they would try to compete with the brokers. At the end of the day it's in the dealers own hands. Nobody forces them to deal with brokers do they? If they didn't then what would happen to the brokers? Maybe they could force them out of business. So eaally it's up to the dealers to take action.

In the meantime, £3k is a lot of money to me and if I can keep it instead of giving it to a dealer then I will.

For the record, I have bought one brand new car through a Broker (Golf V5 back in 2001). Since then I have bought; Audi A4 Cab (2003), BMW 320d M sport Touring (2006), Ford Focus ST3 (2007), BMW 335d M Sport Coupe (2007), Mini Cooper (2008) and a Mercedes GL320CDI(2008), brand new all from dealerships.

There, I have done my bit to keep dealers in business but no more! The depreciation from buying that lot would have probably paid a nice chunk of my mortgage 0 although I did turn a £300 profit on the Focus ST3!

mr spatula, you are wasting you breath on chavs that believe that cos its on the internet it must be the best deal. They have no concept that the best deal is the one that gives the most pleasing ownership experience.... not the one that saves a hundred quid or so.....

wonder if they buy tesco value beans or heinz....?

You have really missed the point, it's not tesco value or Heinz ...the two cars here are IDENTICAL....you enjoy your pleasing ownership experience, I'll enjoy my £2000.

Dan

Woodenspatulas, I notice your reference to dealer add ons.

When I bought my Honda Civic (from a dealer may I add) they tried to sell me GAP insurance, it was all new to me but I could see the logic. I was about to sign, it was £399 but I suddenly asked if I could buy GAP insurance online....I saw his face drop....it was £99.

Isn't that just greed on the dealers part?

Dan

Woodenspatulas, I notice your reference to dealer add ons.

When I bought my Honda Civic (from a dealer may I add) they tried to sell me GAP insurance, it was all new to me but I could see the logic. I was about to sign, it was £399 but I suddenly asked if I could buy GAP insurance online....I saw his face drop....it was £99.

Isn't that just greed on the dealers part?

Dan

Sure it is! Proof if needed that the dealers don't give a toss about us, so why should we consider them?

I was about to sign, it was £399 but I suddenly asked if I could buy GAP insurance online....I saw his face drop....it was £99.

You mean you didn't even know you were going to ask, it just came out?

Wow! Spooky, that!

This is a thread that can go on just forever and ever.

Do you argue over the price of bakes beans in Tesco and try to get 12% off because you think that is what you should be paying? No, you buy the beans that you can afford.

Whilst I know this doesn't happen in cars so much and we aren't saying that you should buy from a dealer and full up money at that, just try to let us make a profit from time to time. We've all got bills to pay and surviving by doing Broker deals in the hope that you might just make target and be able to open the doors the following month.

I wonder how many people on here would like it if when they've done their job plumbing/writing software/cabbing/designing buildings if the customer said I'm not going to pay unless you give me a discount, I bet none of you would be too impressed.

It does annoy me an awful lot that dealers have this reputation as being sharks and trying to relieve you of every penny you have.

It does annoy me an awful lot that dealers have this reputation as being sharks and trying to relieve you of every penny you have.

1. And how much do you charge for GAP then?

2. If you can give the broker the discount that you do, why can't you give it to us directly?

The amount I charge for GAP depends on the customer.

I very rarely try to match broker prices, I only try to come close when I need the last car or so for the targets as they loose us money initially and I wouldn't want to sell a bunch of cars at a loss thinking that the back-end bonus money will make up for the loss and then we don't make target so we'd loose out.

1. And how much do you charge for GAP then?

2. If you can give the broker the discount that you do, why can't you give it to us directly?

and why does that matter?

I used to sell GAP for as much as £1300...

but then all customers lie abosut the trade in's, fake the mileage, whinge about scratches they did themselves, forget log books, **** about transfering money, gib on deals they have agreed, etc etc etc....

****** whinging customers are the problem for dealers, why do fleet / trade custs get better prices.... easy they dont **** you about.

and why does that matter?

I used to sell GAP for as much as £1300...

but then all customers lie abosut the trade in's, fake the mileage, whinge about scratches they did themselves, forget log books, **** about transfering money, gib on deals they have agreed, etc etc etc....

****** whinging customers are the problem for dealers, why do fleet / trade custs get better prices.... easy they dont **** you about.

Nice! Why not walk around with one of those boards saying 'I am a scum motor trader. Do not buy from me!' although I wouldn't mind betting you're an 'ex' scum motor trader.

It's nice to know from the horses mouth how dealers see us customers.

Nice! Why not walk around with one of those boards saying 'I am a scum motor trader. Do not buy from me!'.

It's nice to know from the horses mouth how dealers see us customers.

you're misinformed. I dont work in the motorstrade......

I dont see customers as twerps.. I see time wasting, cant really afford it, idiots as twerps.... go figure.

Edited 4 October, 200817 yr by Allams Skoda
can't use IMG tags properly