Used Superb II on Autotrader Already!

[Supurbia]

£5000 profit margin!!!!!!! I think not, but thanks for your insight into the motortrade, you seem to have a lot of inside knowledge, how long have you been working in the motor trade?

Since 1981 on and off, I've seen the biggest of the biggest cons pulled on customers as well, not to mention the backstabbing enviroment garages breed, I remember everytime I started at another firm within ten minutes old shifty would appear and give me the wink wink low down on who to trust and who not to, after he'd gone another would arrive with the same advice only his advice would be directed against the last guy and so on.

Anyway to justify what you have picked me up on and add some more let me tell you these two tales, the 1st one is when I was looking for a Superb, I approached a dealer for a brand new one to start with but had to go second hand cos the 1.9 tdi was no longer available as an auto version, anyway to cut to the chase I bought a S/H one and then a few weeks later was chatting to the salesman who I was going to get the new one from, he asked if I'd found one yet and told me they'd had one that matched my search come in as a possible PX on an Octy, but as the salesman put it, so and so bid the guy a rediculously low figure for it, and the guy walked!

Take the same dealership and find ourselves looking at Sup 2 in left hook form, one salesman is all over me even though he knows I've already opened up negotiations with the other guy who took me for a spin when looking for my Sup 1, than goes on to tell me that they should have a demo for sale in November and he'll ring me at the time, well, for one I like to see ppl who've invested a bit of effort have the deal if there is one, so that means salesman #1 gets any potential business, and salesman #2 can keep his 1k off list demo car that everyone in the garage has tested it's roundabouts prowess to the max.

Now we get to the overall human strain of it all, back in the day yours truly couldn't afford to live on what peanuts he was earning, so he borrowed something of no value to anyone to stay mobile in a dire situation, got caught and was sacked, was treat quite leniently considering it was technically fraud what I did, left thinking what a good bloke my now ex boss is for letting me go without too much fuss, now here's the clincher, 18 mths later the whole sales staff get the boot for fiddling the px's including the sales manager, everything filters down from the top in life, I took my lead because others a lot older than me were doing it and it still goes on today, and I guess my example is they did it because they felt thiose above them were doing it, it's how the ppl at the top present themselves, and that presentation is to give the customer 75% of his true PX book value and ask on average 20% more for their cars book value, I guess the bottom line is that the main agents want every bite of the cherry, and when they stop getting it when things get tight they don't like it and blame brokers etc for the down turn.

Me personally I don't care if every main agent goes to the wall, there will be plenty of good mechanics setting up in a unit with labour rates 50% lower and customer service that some dealers could only imagine existed, and if I'm offered a car for less by broker etc then I will buy from them without any hesitation, hang the S/H market, if I get a 20k car for 15k and it's worth less in 3 yrs time than if I'd paid the 20k so what, it's 5k + interest that I didn't have to stump up in the 1st place, it's now a buyer's market and if main agents want to survive they will have to modify their game plan considerably.

BTW, that wasn't all in response to you Ant's.

[woodenspatulas]

Well I'd like to have a say on this.....

Having had various deals on cars over the years the deal goes like this, the main dealers love idiots who pay list and can be conned into buying warranties that the manufacturer has already provided, what a wonderful world it would be for dealers if everyone was like this.

conned? how can something which will make sure if a part of your car fails, that it will get fixed be a con? maybe you are thinking of the "arthur daily" second hand dealers where their warranties arent worth a penny? Skoda dealers only supply skoda warranties, therefore they are the same as the warranty given in the first 3 years.

However, the motor trade in general is still an Arfur Daley outfit, try getting anything resolved without going to court when they sell you a lemon, then we move on to parts, this is where a good well run business will make it's money, the mark up on parts is incredible, I have trade access to VX stuff, here's a selection, 5/30 oil I pay £22 for 5 litres, retail is close to £50, H7's I pay £3.50, retail is near £12, all this still leaves the garage happy that it has made money from me.

that arthur daily comment is just near sighted and just pain out of date. have you been into a dealership recently??? most of the staff there wouldnt even know what "arthur daily was!! looking at any trade with the same poop tinted glasses would result in the same attitude to a multitude of jobs. look at builders, plumbers, estate agents, banks, garages, door to door sales. they can all been seen as shirkers, rip off merchants and work shy muppets, but are they all like that? so why think all dealers are the same? VX trade prices are just that, TRADE prices. the parts dept are a business in their own right, so as with any business they need to turn a profit. every product on the planet has the same. looks at how much houses actually cost to build for gods sake!

Next comes the business program, new cars these days are like printers, you can have the car cheap but the ink's gonna cost you, this doesn't help the salesman I admit, but £200 for a £3 oil filter and £20 of oil just to get the book stamped is where profit is attainable for those places offering good work and service to it's customer's, sadly not a strong point in the Skoda plan ime.

you clearly dont see what a proper skoda tech gets upto in a service. the labour charges are fair for someone who has to have all the training and tools to do the job. your local mech might be able to service your car and reset the light with a ebay bargin, but to do work officaly our guys need to have specific tools, even if a normal spanner would do, and that costs money. i saw the citroen guys having to spend 1500 quid on a table like device to get ready to service the new c-crosser. turns out the service can be done with out that but every service agent needs to have one.

plus i once again say that sales, parts and workshops are all seperate as far as dealers go. so any profit from servicing will not come into a sales situation.

Lets look at the px'ing, the book shows most cars to be worth 30% of list after 3 yrs or thereabout's, so how come my 3 yr old 19k car was originally on a main agent forecourt for 11k, working the figures the last owner would've received about £6.2k in px, and then it's cleaned and retailled for nearly 5k more, is this fair practice? only a few weeks ago I was offered 4.5k for it having paid 9.2k for it 16 mths ago, I expected 5.5k tbh against an 11k car, mine would forcourt for around 6.5k if not more all day long on a Skoda site, the game is up I'm afraid ppl know that they are having the stick worked up them and that's why they avoid the dealers these days.

er hang on, px prices arent set by the dealer, but by the industry at large. if we sell a new car at 20k and it comes back 3 years later and we buy it for 7k, thats a little less than the expected 40 percent. but the dealer then has to perform remedial work to get it ready for sale. its not just a quick wipe down and on the forecourt it goes! even a well looked after car may have a kerb mark on the wheel, light marks down the passenger side from trees etc. chips where the doors been opened and pin dents from carpark trips. dont forget tyres might need doing and most people get rid just before a service, so that has to be counted on. then take the monthly right down costs that have to be taken into consideration, then the fuel for test drives and the constant recleaning. it all adds up and lets not forget to have to build a bit of negoiation money into the deal as we all want to haggle. we buy your car not knowing how long it will take to sell. it could take months! all you do is drop it off (in whatever state) and wash your hands of it. the dealer then has to try and sell it, and lets not forget sell it at a profit! so afetr all that is a few hundred quid profit too much to ask?

Some of my experiences in the past...

I offer the finance guy the chance to beat the bank, bank offers at the time 6.9% no problem I can get you 3% sir, ok how much a mth I ask, his answer is £30 pm more at 3% than the banks 6.9% go figure who lent me the money.

I did let a finance guy have the business one time, and guess what? when the papers arrived he'd added £100 to the debt to pay his fees.

ok it sounds like youve hit a bad one here, but did you actually get a full acceptance fromt he bank for 6.9? from what i see 70 percent of people havent, and when they get teh acceptance forms through the rates gone up due to their personal credit rating. oh and the fees? they are on every single agreement ever signed, even via your bank, infact at your bank you may have missed the charges as they hide it in the monthlies and some of them have even made customers pay interest on them! finance houses we use cant do that so you get them in black and white. sadly it sounds like you had a finance guy who was either rubbish or just unsure of the charges

Times are tight again, and if anyone wants to sell cars they should be prepared to give it away as low as possible if a genuine buyer walks in, but the majority won't, instead they will look at the money and think of it as their own instead of someone elses, I can 100% predict if I go new next time, I'll go to Skoda and want a list car of 21k discounted it will be ok sir hows £20.5k, however I will also spec up an Insignia that lists 22k and drive it away for no more than 17k, VX will deal why not VAG ? and before anyone slags the Insignia, think how you think when some Joebody slags a Skoda off, ignorance is king among those that know nowt comes to mind.

and how much will the vx loose over night becuase vx give it all away for everyone? vs the skoda? sorry but its the same as citroen. i can walk in and get 5k off a car, but then in 3 years time preper for some serious deprieciation!!

Bottom line is cars are overpriced to start with, it's the volume of sales that lets it down as a profitable sale at lower prices right now, if I walked in and ordered 100, 22k cars and stated I'm only paying 15k a unit who'd bet I didn't still get my 100 cars?

bulk orders are slightly different as they dont have to pay for things that go on with retail sales, plus they dont get fuel, mats "thrown in" or anything. it comes down to a phone call and someone agreeing to buy a certain amount of cars at a certain price. i also deal with a big lease contract here and they get the same money off as do people asking for broker matches.

I read ppl say the margins aren't there to deal anymore, well look at this example, it's 1989 I paid £8800 for a list price of £10500 Pug 405 GLD, that's a 15% discount, today the cars bretheren is £17k, everything has increased equal so my discount would now make it £14.5k, so in relation my discount is now £2550, and I know a Pug dealer would either match it or better it, yet you try getting Skoda to knock £500 off a 22k and you'd be very lucky, and lets look deeper, the Pug is made in France iirc where wages are at proper levels, the Skoda is made by ppl earning a lot less, Skoda are missing something here, they make good cars with a bad image problem, this should throw them to chuck cars at cabbies,reps and coppers by the bucket, if the Octavia TDi could be sourced for £10k I could probably sell 50 tomorrow, but instead the askings are closer to £15k most of the time, and that is just too rich when compared up to a 9 mth old Vectra or Mondeo for 8-10k, granted you won't get the Ford for that right now but the time will come soon enough.

margins are less these days, simple fact. gone are the glory days, manufactuers keep it all back now to keep dealers trying for targets.using a pug as a example of discount though is a bit silly, as anyone knows they (like citroen) knock huge amounts off their cars, when really all they do is inflate their prices to allow such discounts. i worked for citroen and i know full up a c1 makes the dealer less then 300 quid after all prep costs. add some fuel and mats in and that drops to 250 quid, but then who pays list price anymore?

and do you realise that as the pound has dropped againt other currencies that skoda are almost selling at a loss to keep the british retail prices the same?

And before anyone takes offence, my comments are about the trade not the individual, so James etc please do not take any of this personally, use it to help your industry compete in what is going to be a very hard market.

and the same to you, nothing personal, its only opinions at the end of the day

[skisbp]

thankyou mate i hope to perhaps return to Skoda when the new dealer opens eventually, so, as the governer of California once said "I'll be back"

If you don't mind my asking what you planning to do in the meantime?

[woodenspatulas]

From woodenspatulas

"nope, i bet my house that if you look into the t's and c's of the 99 pound GAP you'd find a much lower max claim limit, and more than likely find the underwriter is registered off mainland uk, there fore bypassing the tough laws regarding the sale of insurance products. Im always very honest with my customers that you can get gap cheaper, but with it comes less cover and more chance of your claim being binned.

you get what you pay for in this instance"

Sorry but you're wrong on both counts, the policy was from Hitachi Capital Insurance Limited which is a subsiduary of Hitachi Capital (UK) plc. It is authorised and regulated by the FSA.

The policy limit was £10000, more than enough for a £16K car.

Dan

lol good thing i dont have a house! but i stand corrected, but we can only comment on personal experiance and ive seriously yet found a contender for our gap. did this policy offer to pay the excess?

[woodenspatulas]

It's common knowledge you can get GAP insurance from the big UK based insurance companies a lot less than from the car dealers.

at 99 quid though thats less than i pay for it! but then if we sell i a product to a customer and the company who underwrites it doesnt pay out for a reason that isnt very fair on the surface the customer definatley wont be back to buy another car from us will they?

so i would say dealers go with the best company they can find to ensure they dont have unhappy customers. the gap provider is part of QBE, so quite a big company

[woodenspatulas]

If you don't mind my asking what you planning to do in the meantime?

at this moment i havent the foggiest. i'd like to go back to retail but as a trainer for front line staff. some sort of product knowledge for the mobile phone industry. while i was at carphonewarehouse i saw allot of this type of in store training and the majority was crap, so after speaking to one of the better ones i felt i could do as good a job.

just looking about now, but i will probably have to jump into car sales just to pay the bills until i find the right job.

[redbaron]

10k limit is sh1yte... we used to have 25k min rising through to 150k for the proper cars... even paid excess, sounds more like finance gap rather than "total loss"

[skisbp]

just looking about now, but i will probably have to jump into car sales just to pay the bills until i find the right job.

Ahh the "Golden-Fingercuffs"!!!

Wish we had a better importer here. So I could stop contemplating starting a personal import option(Brokerage:O)...

[woodenspatulas]

it's how the ppl at the top present themselves, and that presentation is to give the customer 75% of his true PX book value and ask on average 20% more for their cars book value, I guess the bottom line is that the main agents want every bite of the cherry, and when they stop getting it when things get tight they don't like it and blame brokers etc for the down turn.

ok lets get this one straight before another silly internet rumor gets out of hand.

this practice is nigh on impossible to do now for the majority of main dealers. it used to happen becuase the dealers were allowed to ship px's to who ever they like. so you could have shifty blogs from used cars up the road come and offer you 5k for a car you delibratley took in at 4.5k to make profit.

now all the dealers i speak to have offical channels all the px's goto. so if you put on the paperwork that the px was bought in at 5k, thats what goes onto the logs and you cant change that. it then goes to another big dealer for 5k or goes to the auctions or resellers and the amount paid will always show as 5k. if the car goes to auction (where most go now) if it sells for 4.5k (which happens to most now) it will probably sell. this is another reason why you might feel your px has been bought for less than its worth. as most end up at the block, it could sell for way less then the dealer paid for it, and that loss comes off the bottom line for the dealer.

this has always been why its accpeted to get less at a dealer for px than if you sell it private. you are able to get rid of the car quickly and without cost to yourself. sell it privatley and you have to advertise it, clean it, keep it taxed, insursed and mot'd and then theres quick turn around you are left holding onto a car looing value everyday you dont sell it.

it really sounds like youve had a rough time with dealers, and the car trade in general. so i can understand the comments you are making. i know none of your comments are aimed at anyone on here, and i hope you dont take any offence in my own comments.

blimey where has this thread gone!!!

[woodenspatulas]

Ahh the "Golden-Fingercuffs"!!!

lol

[dan123]

10k limit is sh1yte... we used to have 25k min rising through to 150k for the proper cars... even paid excess, sounds more like finance gap rather than "total loss"

This is GAP insurance we are talking about, it pays out the difference between what the insurance company pays out for a write off and the amount outstanding in finance...£10K is plenty.

Dan

[Burnsey]

That would be ok if you compare like for like. The Ford equiv to a Octavia is a focus not a Mondeo.

I was looking for something that had similar engine and was same price after 1, 2 and 3 years which the mondeo does. You can't quite compare the mondeo to octy and say they are similar although I looked at them both and chose the octy as a similar age and similar price, so I am kind of comparing like with like.

In response to someones nightmare with salesmen and financing had the same probs with AClark and Reg Vardy dealers when getting the wifes car a few years back. They wouldn't give the APR until we started to walk out. Had a fair idea what a loan should cost at several APRs so could tell him his 4% (took him a while to admit it was flat rate) was a joke, esp as he wanted us to push it over 4-5 years rather than 3 and that just pushed the APR skywards.

Edited 6 October, 2008 by Burnsey

[auroan]

The octy and the mondeo are in two different market sectors, they are not like for like. The Octy is punching above it's weight with regard to the equiv marker.

It's like comparing a welterweight to a heavyweight in boxing.....

[Supurbia]

ok lets get this one straight before another silly internet rumor gets out of hand.

I cant be doing replies to all your answers bud, but this isn't net rumour it's a fact, my car was listed at 11k originally, it was 10k on the day and I got it for 9.2k in the end, which in real terms should've been no more than 8k for a true value of 6k px and 2k profit margin to play with and pay the tax out of, tbf to the Skoda dealer it wasn't just them it was all of the ones on offer at the time, book trade at the time would be 6k, so somewhere along the line there was 5k difference in buy in and sell out.

As for tools and servicing, iirc the labour rate is something like £80ph now, the mechanic gets around £12-£15ph, so the garage is helping itself to £65ph and all mechanics have to provide their own tools.

The Arfur Daley routine still exists trust me, it's just dressed up better these days, MD wears a suit instead of a sheepskin, if you need proof ask Arnold Clark customers

My finance examples show you how it works with these ppl, they think I'm so stupid I won't notice the extra cash to pay and will only look at the apr % and take what seems the lowest one, and yes I did get that rate from the A&L with no hassle and 24 hrs cheque arrival, this is because I don't f*** ppl around for money so they always want to lend to me, you've just reminded me of another example, I had one dealer try to sell me a 10k car for 11k hoping I wouldn't notice, in the end I played them, I let the guy run back and forth for over two hours to his manager trying to get me to sign, they even left me for half and hour hoping I'd walk off, but as I had time to spare I sat tight and in the end the manager came out fuming at me because I hadn't bought their car, I just said to him in the end, how do you expect to sell when you lie and are rude, and keep your POS car I never wanted it anyway, and walked out grinning.

The motor trade is like horse racing, it is too open to abuse, it'll always be mug that bloke regardless, because every car is a unit, and all that matters is shifting that unit, and once it's gone it's no longer their problem, and that's how they treat their customers across the board, with the exception of the big players selling 70k + cars knowing the owner will be back excepting 40k for it and taking another new unit away with him.

Whats happened right now is px money is on the floor and it's understandable tbh, but the screens aren't falling at all, even QW was on GMTV this morning trying to explain it in an awkward way, but if you know how to read a trader you can read QW easily because he deals it dodgy anyway, or at least he used to before he got caught as a trainee barber for cars.:P

[woodenspatulas]

Whats happened right now is px money is on the floor and it's understandable tbh, but the screens aren't falling at all, even QW was on GMTV this morning trying to explain it in an awkward way, but if you know how to read a trader you can read QW easily because he deals it dodgy anyway, or at least he used to before he got caught as a trainee barber for cars.:P

really? i never knew that about him learn something everyday!

im dont get what your talking about on the px price though sorry. i think im misreading what your saying. i thought you were saying that a dealer px's in a customers car, giving the customer a certain amount for the car knowing its worth allot more, then selling it on and pocketing the difference?

btw mechs do provide their own day to day tools, but specific tools like vag com, diagnositic tools, mot bays, etc and the specific ones all come out of the service bay pockets, trust me im good friends with our guys here and we all coudlnt beleive how much these specific tools for one job cost!! dont forget the running costs. i bet if the service bay had no one to take calls or bookings, 2 ramps, mot bay and no courtesy cars, waiting area etc then the costings would mean cheaper services, but the public want all these extras and they have to cost somewhere. i use a one one band for anything i cant tackle. his rent for the month woudlnt cover the running costs of the workshop here for a week!

[Supurbia]

really? i never knew that about him learn something everyday!

im dont get what your talking about on the px price though sorry. i think im misreading what your saying. i thought you were saying that a dealer px's in a customers car, giving the customer a certain amount for the car knowing its worth allot more, then selling it on and pocketing the difference?

btw mechs do provide their own day to day tools, but specific tools like vag com, diagnositic tools, mot bays, etc and the specific ones all come out of the service bay pockets, trust me im good friends with our guys here and we all coudlnt beleive how much these specific tools for one job cost!! dont forget the running costs. i bet if the service bay had no one to take calls or bookings, 2 ramps, mot bay and no courtesy cars, waiting area etc then the costings would mean cheaper services, but the public want all these extras and they have to cost somewhere. i use a one one band for anything i cant tackle. his rent for the month woudlnt cover the running costs of the workshop here for a week!

Na, I appreciate all the behind the scenes costs as I'm S/E myself, but if you took all the un needed sensors off a car you plain wouldn't need VAGCOM etc, I reckon 75% of EML reports are because the sensor is dead rather than the car engine having a fault, but back to what we were talking about, you'll just have to trust me the motor industry is not a clean living industry however dressed up it might seem, and that's not just Skoda it's all of them, rotten from the manufacturer down, even mechanics etc damage ppl's cars and don't say anything, prime example to this was a new screen I had fitted to a car as the original leaked, when I get the car back the bonnet is dented, I complain, the fitter denies all knowledge and maybe it wasn't him that did it, but it happened while the car was in their care, it was only my well pi**ed off attitude that convinced them to repair it foc, there have been other examples like damaged engine shield after a service, and one of the classics I remember was a VAG garage where no one replaced the brake fluid as it cost bonus time even though the customer had paid for it, and the service staff knew it was going on as well.

[deek72]

Anyway, just to say I went for my test drive in a 170cr Elegance DSG at Claybank Manchester this morning. Car was ok but would need another drive before committing though I thought.

Back to showroom to talk figures. Showed him a print off from Broadspeed stating £22,577 for a specced up car (skoda configurator came to approx £25k.) He immediately 'went to talk to his boss', came back and said we can match that.

Great! He then went on to offer me £4.5k for my 55reg Ed100 auto. Now a quick look shows PX prices to be somewhere between £6-8k depending where you look but I should imagine that the low offer from him would just about claw back his discount.

I walked.

[cheezemonkhai]

The ones I'm talking about are underwritten by the likes of LLoyds of London or other large insurance companies.

I'm not saying the £99 is a good one or not, but I've regularly seen half the price of the dealer for the same or better cover.

Plus once again web based companies offering to help the customer find the best price.

GAP insurance online

Gap Car Insurance Quotation | GetMeGap.com

I'm sorry mate, I'm sure you're a nice bloke and trying to earn a living but all over the world people hunt for the lowest price and best value. Unless a company has a value add that the person is interested in over the lowest priced competitor then there is no way that company will survive.

A lot of companies have relied of people having credit to buy and now that credit has gone so will the companies relying on people having it.

Everyone has been forced to make savings, so if you have to look after number one. In my case that would mean getting the best price for a new car.

[vRSbloke]

This thread is as interesting as they get!

Anyway, I am fed up to the back teeth with car depreciation, I have just bought myself a new car today, collect sunday, the most it can possibly loose me is £2K.

Anyone fancy a quick preview?

[jcblincs]

go on - surprise us !!

[vRSbloke]

Okey dokey... my depreciation buster.......

£2000, Jaguar XJ 3.2 Sport (straight 6 engine) 76,000 miles full history, 31mpg combined, leather, auto, aircon, XJR Alloys.....

[jcblincs]

how old ? looks nice

[vRSbloke]

how old ? looks nice

It's a 1995(M plate), X300 XJ. The first of the Ford influenced models. Apparantly one of the most reliable of the older Jags. I love it!

[deek72]

31mpg combined

:rofl::rofl:

[jcblincs]

i believe you can get nice slippers at M&S. not sure about smoking jakets and pipes - might have to look elsewhere for these