RE Cambelt change on PD130 every 4 years a con?

[Matt Bodycombe]

Been speaking to an independent VAG specialist re suspension bushes (see my other thread) and also mentioned cambelt changes. He said it was not necessary to change the belt after 4 years or 60K. He said he didn't do the job on his car until 6 years and said that the dealers only lowered the change time as they were seing less cars through the door because of long life servicing. Is he right?:confused: He said every 6 years with the mileage i'm doing (less than 10K) and then do it with a water pump as well.Sounds like an honest guy.

Edited 8 December, 2008 by Matt Bodycombe

[Johnny50]

If you think it's worth the risk then go for it.

Personally, i'd rather get it changed sooner.

[Matt Bodycombe]

This is it I don't know, I'm dependent on experts on these things;) What do most people do?

[ultra_joel88]

Was in the same dilemma back in June.

Car had done 40k and was 4 years old.

Rang around for prices - 2 of the 3 Skoda/VW dealers said it didn't need doing until 6 years, and one told me 80k!

Rang my local mechanic he said Audi had released a bulletin a couple of years ago stating a change to 4 years or 60k. I asked him what he thought he said when you weigh up the cost of a new cambelt against a new engine its a no-brainers.

After having it done he showed me the old cambelt, it was in relatively good condition, however the "rubber teeth" on the belt were starting to shine and show wear on the inside edge. He said it probably would have been fine for a while longer but not worth the risk.

Joel

[KenONeill]

I'm sort of confused by cambelt change intervals, because they change so often! That said, anyone who says to change the water pump when you're in there anyway clearly knows a bit about what he's talking about!

[Adam K]

I'm sort of confused by cambelt change intervals, because they change so often! That said, anyone who says to change the water pump when you're in there anyway clearly knows a bit about what he's talking about!

why do you say that?

i know f*ck all about mechanics, but i know that it is worth changing the waterpump at the same time just cos i've had it done on previous cars.

[jasc1988]

Well my mate just got his changed on his 2001 vw bora... its first change at only 60k...

Belt was perished quite badly...

Personally id stick to the 60k or 4 years

[KenONeill]

why do you say that?

i know f*ck all about mechanics, but i know that it is worth changing the waterpump at the same time just cos i've had it done on previous cars.

Well you said it!

Seriously, VAG cars are the only ones I know where I'd treat the waterpump as a service item.

[Kandy]

I think as long as you regularly inspect the belt etc. for obvious problems you could stretch it to 80k and 5/6years (whichever comes first) without taking too much of a gamble (cars are always a gamble!). But if you do 20k on it or leave it a couple of years without a look-see, or ignore new/increasing engine noise etc. - you better pray.

[Tech1e]

Well you said it!

Seriously, VAG cars are the only ones I know where I'd treat the waterpump as a service item.

Vauxhall are well known for the water pumps collapsing and throwing belts.

As for the belt, I have seen plenty at four years that have started cracking. But its only an advisory anyhow, how can they be ripping anyone off if they are just recomending something, if you believe you know better dont have it done.

50k and four years on that one.

[Matt Bodycombe]

It's not what I believe Lummox, I was asking for an opinion on the advice a specialist has given me.

[Ricko]

The way I see it it's down to you to assess the risk against the cost. Your shout ... if you don't have it done and it does fail, you have nobody else to blame.

The problem is the relatively large expense and hassle that will arise from a failure.

[Td-eye]

Mine at 53,000 miles & five years...

However, despite that looking bad, the inside of the belt actually looked ok as can be seen on this thread ...

http://briskoda.net/fabia-i/cambelt-condition-53-000-a/83358/

That said, it's no more than 60,000 or four years now for me .... I've seen what valves touching pistons can do to an engine and it ain't a pretty sight I can assure you !

Also, I'd always change a cambelt driven water pump when doing a belt, anything that comes into contact with the belt has the possibility of failure. I'd rather take my chances with a new pump at 60,000 miles than an old one at failing just prior to the next belt change at potentially 120,000 miles !

Really, it's just not worth the risk I.M.H.O

[zaragon]

Cambelts have a problem with perishing and loads of other conditions , I worked as a quality engineer in a warranty department ,and if the belt was over 4 years old , you could see the deterioration of the material

cost wise its a balance , do you ignore the belt ( that you cant inspect easily anyway ) and leave it as long as possible , or shell out £400 and change it

I my opinion ( 35 years working in manufacturing of automotive parts -- OE / Aftermarket water pumps and clutches ) -- I would change the belt at 4 years or 60000 miles -- far cheaper than the alternative of a smashed cylinder head @ £1500 to fix ( and for the extra £35 change the pump on the VRS at the same time)

Some good reading from the best manufacturer of cam belts

>>>>Gates Timing Belts

http://www.gates.com/europe/file_display_common.cfm?thispath=Europe%2Fdocuments_module&file=TB%20002_E2_VAG_19_D_5543xs_5559xs.pdf - small download

[cjb]

VWs didn't even have a belt change interval stated years ago. I changed one on a Scirocco I had at 60k miles/8 years, and it was cracked badly. Our Lupo originally didn't have a change interval either, but given the cost of replacing 16 valves, I had it changed recently. It's a false economy not to.

[Kandy]

It's not a false economy to leave it when a car's worth next to nowt anyway! It becomes a sensible trade off/risk.

The belts are internally reinforced and some minor cracks across the back width, are probably not a sign of imminent failure.

I'd wager that within sensible mileage/time limits, the majority of snapped belts went when something else had seized/broken.

[Matt Bodycombe]

I think I'll be changing next year judging by those pics. Can't understand why the guy said don't bother after reading the advice on here, most perplexing:confused: You'd think it would be in his interests both financially and in terms of good practice to stick to Skoda/VAG's recommendations! Judging but the tone of some of the replies people are suggesting that I am stating this as a fact when all I am doing is asking for comments on some advice I have been given, anyone who knows me will tell you how meticulous I am with my cars.:(There are threads running elsewhere for example on Honest John backroom about this at the moment because apparently the intervals are a lot longer in the States than they are here.

Edited 9 December, 2008 by Matt Bodycombe

[Solent_Mike]

I'm not an automechanic but I do know that you don't compare vastly different conditions. The engine of a car kept outside in North America undergoes far greater daily thermal cycles than one kept outside in the UK. I'd also bet that a rubberised cam belt that ran continuously at one speed would last much longer than one that undergoes many start/stop cycles. As stated by many others the manufacturers work with world-wide statistics and err on the safe side for the good of their reputation. So at four years you pay your money (or not) and have carefree driving (or maybe not)

[ap0gee1978]

How about this, then? I'd wager most people will change the cambelt just once over their period of ownership of a car, in which case doing it at 60k rather than 80k is just bringing the cost forward rather than avoiding doing it at all...

Or am I wrong???

[Kandy]

I'd agree with that. When people get a new car they are all keen to have it just right and splash cash (rather needlessly in many cases) and then try to sell before a next big service becomes absolutely necessary.

You can see this with all the Octavia VRS that aren't selling on here now as people had hoped, then after a few months they are forced to bite the bullet and do the next cam belt change that they had hoped to avoid!

I am also pretty sure that the low(ish) servicing limits in this country are in part down to generating dealer servicing revenue.

[DriveMeBananas]

I changed the belt at 50K miles, 2 years old.

If the belt goes it can destroy the engine completely, one of my previous vehicles suffered a catastrophic failure of the timing belt.

When ever I buy a second hand vehicle the first thing that I do is change the timing belt.

I prefer preventative maintenance. Rather than just plod on until the wheels fall off.

[MoggyTech]

4 years or 60,000 miles, absolutely. Nothing to do with extra revenue for dealers. More to do with extra power from modern engines.

Not sure if this is related to the 4 year interval part, but new rubber parts for my Morris 1000 (suspension bushes etc) the quality is pants. Might be some manufacturing process environmental thing, but the quality of rubber is crap these days.

Cue the condom jokes.

[Conshine]

Just had a letter from Motorline in canterbury stating that my cambelt is overdue as it should be done every 72000 miles or 5 years.

I had it done at 60k as advised by Caffyns in Ashford....

WTF is going on.....:rofl:

[greg123]

I have had a cambelt snap on a car I sold. The car's belt was 3 years old, it had done under 5,000 miles in 3 years. Reason, aging. Rubber degragdes, oil contaminates it. Moden belts are more resilliant, but they still go.

Sure, go 6 years, but at your own risk. I'll happily leave a diesel filter for a long time on the basis that their capacity is essentially for 'dirty fuel' markets and cutting one open that is 10 years old reveals it's still just fine. But I won't skimp on a cambelt kit. If a filter blocks, no damage is done. If a cambelt breaks, bye bye engine.

Further more, his philosophy about VAG is incorrect. It is a hard fact that mainainence skedules are driven to the edge by accountants, who make the car seem more desirable (cheapr to service) for fleet buyers. For example, ZF who make the gearboxes specify oil changes and confirm no oil is 'lifetime'. But VW who fit their boxes, ship the cars out saying the fluid is 'lifetime' with no maintainence. As a result boxes like the 01M auto regularly go over 80k and oil tested on an 80k motor was showing as drastically degraded and unable to protect the engine.

It does not make sense that VAG had a complete change of philosophy over cambelts and decided to specifiy a job costing hundreds of pounds for no reason, putting off buyers compared to other mfr's out there who have chain driven engines requiring no belt change ever.

Greg.

Been speaking to an independent VAG specialist re suspension bushes (see my other thread) and also mentioned cambelt changes. He said it was not necessary to change the belt after 4 years or 60K. He said he didn't do the job on his car until 6 years and said that the dealers only lowered the change time as they were seing less cars through the door because of long life servicing. Is he right?:confused: He said every 6 years with the mileage i'm doing (less than 10K) and then do it with a water pump as well.Sounds like an honest guy.

[greg123]

I have seen several belts that looked fine, other than where they split into two. The kevlar weaves just gave up and the belt split. How you going to inspect for that before it happens? That's the trouble. The only inspection I do is to confirm a documented belt does actually look new, with the writing bright and shiny and no oil on it. If it looks out the box, I'll believe it was changed. All other inspections I don't do, I just replace the belt, as the belt could look fine and it still mean nothing.

Greg.

I think as long as you regularly inspect the belt etc. for obvious problems you could stretch it to 80k and 5/6years (whichever comes first) without taking too much of a gamble (cars are always a gamble!). But if you do 20k on it or leave it a couple of years without a look-see, or ignore new/increasing engine noise etc. - you better pray.