Just wondered if someone on here has experience of appealling against Local Authority Parking fines and could give some advice on whether its worth appealling.

Took my car into the dealers last Thursday to get the cam belt and front discs and pads replaced and parked on the industrial estate one -way service road outside the dealers whilst I went to book it in at the service desk.

Didn't notice at the time but the council have installed double yellows just on the right-hand corner on one-side of the road only immediately in front of the dealers and where I'd parked. My car wasn't visible from the service desk

Outcome was that I was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice under the Traffic Management Act 2004 by a London Borough of Hillingdon warden. That's £50 if paid within 14 days, £100 thereafter ! Not nice on top of the £600+ bill for the car !

The notice says the vehicle was unattended for eight minutes - one of the dealer's staff alerted me to the fact it was being ticketed and I went out and spoke to the warden. He said he would notebook it only, but when I checked the web site the following day it had been input - twisters ! However, they have got a photograph of my car on the double yellow (First two images below).

When afterwards I had a look around at the site of the misdemeanour, I noticed that there are NO ROADSIDE SIGNAGE at the point where the double yellows were indicating "No parking" or the "Prescribed Period" that's referred to on the ticket. The only sign is at the entrance to the road and I don't know what this supposed to indicate - see last three photos

I 'm just wondering if this is good grounds for appeal -

Parking PCN issued by a Civil Enforcement Officer after 30 March 2008 - Traffic Penalty Tribunal

Went back to the dealers today at 16:30, to get them to fit the replacement wheel trim missed on Thursday. And hay presto, an Octavia is parked exactly where I was and not a warden in sight.

Get this though, on returning home later I tried to speak to the Parking fine bods on the phone and was told they all work 0900-1600 ! I don't know whether to or

Nick

Double yellows are no parking at any time. UNLESS specified otherwise on signage.

Blame old Borris for the increase in yellows.

I think I found the answer to my own questions. Just had a look at a PDF copy of the DOT publication "Know your traffic signs" .

The "On street parking signs and road markings section, on page 39, states that double yellows are obviously no waiting at any time and don't have to have an accompanying sign unless the restriction is qualified in some way.

And, in the same section, on page 54, looks like the "Zone ends" sign at the entrance to the road related to the restriction on lorries and coaches on the adjoining main road.

Also, looks as if a controlled parking zone does not need additional plated signage next to individual restrictions, not that this applies in this case.

I can't believe that the same council that issued planning permission for the dealers to build the new premises at this location would subsequently go and double yellow the forecourt entrance - talk about restraint of trade.

Nick

Obv done to prevent dangerous parking on a bend by garage users

I suppose I'm stuffed. I just have to try and think of a plea in mitigation.

Nick

If you appeal, you will loose. There is NO mitigating circumstances that will get you off.

Ken had his red lines and bendy buses. Boris loves his yellow lines.

Try asking this on PistonHeads (PistonHeads.com :: Speed Matters) on SP & L forum - mind you -yoiu might need to log on .several experts on this on there

If you wanted to be picky, you could always ask them to prove that there is a local bye-law bringing those double yellows into effect, but it's more than likely that there will be.

Also, the longer you delay paying, the higher the risk of having to pay the inflated amount. If you are going to pay, don't leave it to the last minute !

You could go back and check the lines. There are very particular rules about the markings and if they're not spot on the fine isn't valid.

I know they have to be terminated by a perpendicular line and there should be some markings on the kerb. You'll have to do a bit of Googling.

Edit - Get your measuring tape out, apparently 'Permitted Varients : none" is the key. They can't deviate from the standard and still have valid lines.

Other then that or an error on the ticket I guess you'll have to pay up.

Definately check the lines and check the order that put them there ,Aberystwyth have just admitted that the order controlling parking in the town centre had not been renewed and had expired in 2006 and are now having to repay thousands of motorists.

measuring the gaps between painted lines and checking renewals? weasel-tastic

Aberystwyth have just admitted that the order controlling parking in the town centre had not been renewed and had expired in 2006 and are now having to repay thousands of motorists.

... nevermind, there'll just put up council tax by 0.1% to cover the shortfall and a little bit extra...

As to the OP's ticket, you parked on double yellow lines (badly at that)... and failed to notice the lines as you parked up, maybe its time for a trip to specsavers

If you want to try to get out of it, ensure that the lines have a traffic order, else lie and say that you were loading / unloading at the time.

If I was you, I'd pay the money and move on. Theres better things to be doing than fighting a losing battle.

Sorry, this has to be said.

With the back end sticking out like that the car looks abandened, it deserves not just a ticket but towing away.

Spend a bit more time on your parking and a bit less whittling on about how unfair it is.

Probably will end-up paying. But £50 is £50. And its especially resented when the charge is really being levied to supplement the Uks a*se about face taxation system rather than real traffic management.

Have just been looking at the Statutory Instruments (2007, the new regs took force March 2008))made by the Minister that specify the law, in regulation form, with which the Local Authorities must comply:-

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/pdf/uksi_20073486_en.pdf

SI Nos 3482,3483, 3485, 3486,3487 apply.

Can't see any support in there for the use of hand-held camera devices which is what my fellow was using. Hmmm, unless its covered by the EAA standard referred to or in another SI.

Nick

I always got off parking tickets in London. You have 3 appeals and then a tribunal. They usually give up before the tribunal, unless I've just been lucky.

I've appealed against doing a right turn on a 'right turn for buses only' sign (lovely montage of CCTV images) but I just pointed out it was a residential street, it wasn't one-way and there was no other traffic about, and I was totally lost. All of which was true. They let me off on the second written appeal.

I got stung after a meter ran out by UCLH hospital in London. I missed the meter by 5 minutes and saw the warden. I got off because I'd just been witnessing the birth of my son and pointed out that the parking meter wasn't my main priority and there were no other cars on the street so i wasn't hogging space, and I'd come out to top up but missed it by 5 minutes. I sent them a copy of his birth certificate to prove it

The only time they did refuse an appeal was bizarrely when they were most in the wrong. They'd put up 'no parking' signs while they were doing roadworks but I never used the car back then so I didn't have a clue. My argument was they should have sent all residents a letter stating they were doing work for two weeks instead of assuming we'd see their tiny signs. Went all the way to tribunal but the lawyer wasn't having it

Just say the car broke down and this was the only space to leave it, and it was only there for 5 minutes before the garage took it in. I bet you get away with it. Good luck

Poor show that the dealership can't provide off-street parking for vehicles being booked in for service anyway.

Also check that the ticket is correctly made out. I've had a ticket cancelled (in London) for stating that the car was blue, when the V5 had it as green (it was actually an azure shade), and know of one that was issued for an Austin Martin being cancelled.

Sorry, maybe I am just being a bit of a coque ........ but I wouldn't have parked there myself, the double yellows seem obvious enough so as a general rule of thumb ..... call me old fashioned, but when I see a set of double yellow lines ..... I tend not to park on them

"Get off"

"Get away with it"

"They usually give up"

How about "responsibility" and "accepting" ?

Too many people these days want to flaunt the law and then find someone else to blame except themselves for being in the wrong in the first place.

Surely any driver who has read the Highway Code knows that you can't park on double yellows at any time, unless otherwise specified. You don't turn right when there's a no right turn sign. They are generally there for a reason, so if you choose to go against them, cough up.

Edited 31 March, 200917 yr by thebrymar

Poor show that the dealership can't provide off-street parking for vehicles being booked in for service anyway.

Also check that the ticket is correctly made out. I've had a ticket cancelled (in London) for stating that the car was blue, when the V5 had it as green (it was actually an azure shade), and know of one that was issued for an Austin Martin being cancelled.

Hopefully they are the exception, not the rule.

Whether a person describes a car as blue or green is by the by, the important thing should be the registration number.

I'd be gutted if I was a London taxpayer and you got let off as lightly as that.

Whether a person describes a car as blue or green is by the by, the important thing should be the registration number.

I'd be gutted if I was a London taxpayer and you got let off as lightly as that.

Sorry, but you can't have zero tolerance policing of some aspects of some laws, and tolerance on others.

I don't see why I should pay a parking fine because I left my car in one of 6 empty residents' bays for 5 minutes whilst I located a car park entrance that wasn't signposted from the through road.

Sorry, but you can't have zero tolerance policing of some aspects of some laws, and tolerance on others.

I don't see why I should pay a parking fine because I left my car in one of 6 empty residents' bays for 5 minutes whilst I located a car park entrance that wasn't signposted from the through road.

Sorry - didn't see any of that information in your previous post

I'm sure you never make mistakes.

Lots of people can't spell, so does that mean if anything is reported with a minor spelling mistake that person can't be held responsible.

Heaven help us if I witness a murder and then spell the murderer's name wrong.

Edited 31 March, 200917 yr by thebrymar

Sorry but the fine should stand IMHO

You have parked on double yellow lines,read the code.

The parking is seriously questionable,the back end sticking out like that you are lucky that the lorry pictured in the background didn't hit you .Looking at the pictures the pavement at that point seems to sweep in as though to accomodate lorries turning.I can only assume that the yellow lines have been put there because of the requirement for the full width of the road by these vehicles.

As others have said take it on the chin .Pay up move on and think before you park next time.

Kathy

"I don't see why I should pay a parking fine"

Or drive down bus lanes, or stop on a boxed junction,or pay my taxes, or murder someone.

I`m far more important than anyone else so i dont have to take responsibility for it and if i can find a loophole it will become someone else fault so why should i care.

I remember a place called Great Britain

Now look at us!

Makes u proud to be British

I have been driving since 1978 and up to 2 years ago had a clean licence and no parking fines. I don't think its a coincidence that this unblemished record has been trashed, like so many other people, since then. And I certainly don't think that it necessarily reflects the raising of the standards bar.

Surely, your respect for some laws diminishes when it becomes blatantly obvious that they are being used for purposes other than the equitable governance of the area of life they relate to. I would have thought that this is even more true in this country where the unwritten constitution means that the equitable balance is only maintained when people react to the subversion of laws by whatever authority. I dont think the "Civic society" entails unconditional love.

IMHO, and I think many people will bear me out, there has been a rash of footiling petty law making imposed in this country over the last 10 years or so, ostentisbly designed to micro-manage certain aspects of life but it is more than evident from the way it is implemented that the real purpose is to extract money out of people for the purpose of supporting Public Expenditure levels which would be unsupportable if funded from genuine taxation.

Furthermore local authorities are not renowned for operating the most well thought out and robust systems and if they have dropped a procedural or legislative clanger then it should be pointed out, if only to make the system more robust next time around !

I'm not saying that there is not liability on my part but in a less money motivated environment I would have expected this extremely minor infraction to have been dealt with by a "Ticking off".

Nick

I'm not saying that there is not liability on my part but in a less money motivated environment I would have expected this extremely minor infraction to have been dealt with by a "Ticking off".

Nick

I accept that parking is a less serious matter than theft, assault, burglary, but equally there are laws which are there to be complied with.

If you start saying it was only a minor infraction, where do you draw the line ?

Boundaries get blurred and pushed further and further, such that no-one knows where they stand.

The same can be said for speed cameras etc. I am happy that less police officers are being used to stand at the side of the road holding a speed gun, in the hope that they are used for more gainful employment elsewhere in the pursuit of criminals.

Everyone knows the national speed limits, if they read the Highway Code etc, so should drive within the limits. I have no problem with the use of properly proven technology, and baulk at the thought of those who seek to challenge it because of something they've picked up on the internet.

Edited 31 March, 200917 yr by thebrymar