Luckily just minor damage, looking for views really as to who you think was to blame.

Here is the location.

Google Maps

I was travelling from the top left, intending to take the 3rd exit (almost bottom right). The approach and exit on both sides is 2 lanes wide. I was in the outside lane on the approach, and the other car was on the inside. So far so good, we go around its obvious that the other car wants the same exit as me as he passes the M25 entry slip road. Again this is not normally a problem, he is now beside me so I slow down just in case he is going all the way round. He exits the bottom right, as do I, and the front of my car is now level with his rear door. Now it all goes wrong, without indicating he starts pulling across into my lane. I hit the horn, and brake sharply but even though I have now come to an almost complete stop, his rear bumper glances the side of my front bumper. We both pull over and exchange details.

Red car, is the other car and Green car is me.

If you recognise it, this is J22 of the M25.

Any thoughts.

Edited 5 November, 200916 yr by mannyo

are the lanes marked i.e. left lane to go left or straight on and right lane to go straight on or right? Without looking at the highway code for the correct answer i was taught that unless directed otherwise by road signs or road markings the right hand land of a traffic island was for turning right not the left hand side lane. Proving what the other driver did well thats a differnt matter.

No, they are not marked. I have driven around the same way every working day for the last 9 years without incident. Normally the drivers on the inside drive some way along the exit route before changing lane, but this guy cut straight across as he exited the roundabout. About 100yds after the point of collision is another roundabout where I turn right from the right lane.

A further check of my car, and all the damage apart from a small scratch has just rubbed off, the scratch should buff out as its just paint transfer. The other car is the one that came of worse as it was still moving whereas I had almost completely stopped, as his bumper dragged across the corner of mine.

I think it's his fault as he didn't check OR indicate.

The exit road where the incident occurred, " is it 2 lanes " can't really tell from the picture. I'm no expert and not saying you are in the wrong but you are turning left from a right hand lane.

Green car is in the right, as that would be a "past 12 o'clock" exit, and thus should be taken in the right-hand lane.

And the red car is driven by a numpty who didn't check his blind spots!

His fault but I doubt he'll admit it and it may be difficult to prove.

his fault, he moved from one lane to the other without looking, you were overtaking effectively and he moved into your lane?

With no independent witnesses that will end up as a 50-50.

With no independent witnesses that will end up as a 50-50.

I had one Identical to this some years ago and ended up taking it to court as the lass started fabricating the story, it was initially proposed as a 50:50, I ended up with an 85:15 which I still wasnt happy with to be honest.

Edited 5 November, 200916 yr by Bigw2069

I am no expert but if it is 2 lanes on the exit then deffo his fault, if it is one I think it would have been common sense for you to give way. Was he changing lanes for any reason, i.e to overtake? If it is 2 lanes he just cut you up.

Even if it's just 1 lane on the exit, he failed to check his mirrors sufficiently before he made a manoeuvre and so IMHO it's his fault.

Breaches of at least highway code rules 160, 161 and 184:

160

Once moving you should

* keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road

* keep well to the left on right-hand bends. This will improve your view of the road and help avoid the risk of colliding with traffic approaching from the opposite direction

* drive with both hands on the wheel where possible. This will help you to remain in full control of the vehicle at all times

* be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer

* select a lower gear before you reach a long downhill slope. This will help to control your speed

* when towing, remember the extra length will affect overtaking and manoeuvring. The extra weight will also affect the braking and acceleration

161

Mirrors. All mirrors should be used effectively throughout your journey. You should

* use your mirrors frequently so that you always know what is behind and to each side of you

* use them in good time before you signal or change direction or speed

* be aware that mirrors do not cover all areas and there will be blind spots. You will need to look round and check

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

184

On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should

* use Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre at all stages

* decide as early as possible which exit you need to take

* give an appropriate signal (see Rule 186). Time your signals so as not to confuse other road users

* get into the correct lane

* adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions

* be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you

160/161 General rules (159-161) : Directgov - Travel and transport

184 Roundabouts (184-190) : Directgov - Travel and transport

IMHO all you have to do is prove you were in the correct lane, or more approprately not in the incorrect lane for the junction.

Since there are hazard markings on the roundabout showing 2 lanes before the junction you pulled off at, then they should have checked for you as there was a lane, which appears to go around the roundabout.

Failing that "I was stopped, there was no damage to my car, so how can his claims be true."

Edited 5 November, 200916 yr by cheezemonkhai

I think the roundabout or how you got to the point of collision is irrelevant.

You had already exited the roundabout and were in lane 2 of the road in question, and about to perform an overtake. He made a lane change without checking or signalling.

His fault. But good luck with the insurance company.

:iagree:

Yep, good point that Ben - forget the roundabout in any insurance paperwork

Good luck getting it all sorted Manny. Hope your alloy is ok etc too

No matter how you cut it it's his fault.

If the exit is 2 lanes, he made an unsignalled lane change into you.

If it's 1, so what? He's just entered and driven most of the way round a roundabout in the wrong lane for his intended manoevre.

The exit is 2 lanes, the markings are now much clearer than in the google picture as it was resurfaced fairly recently.

Edited 5 November, 200916 yr by mannyo

Wayhey

I have spoken at some length to the other party this evening, the result of this conversation was this.

As my car is fine and now has no damage showing, and he has looked closely at his bumper and what he seems to have on his car is rubber from my Tyre which has rubbed off onto his bumper and a broken reflector. He is not going to make any claim either, and will get the bumper cleaned up and buy a new reflector.

So as of now, the incident is efectivly closed.

Sounds like a sensible conclusion. Get him to put it in writing and pop a copy in the post to your insurance co.

That RB is a PITA.

The exit is 2 lanes up past the McDonalds (bottom right). Just try getting out of the McD's and onto the R/B in one piece is a challenge!

With 2 lanes on and off, both should have stuck to their lanes at the exit and all should be good.

Oh dear Manny. Were there any witnesses out of interest?

Glad you appear to have it sorted though - sounds the right conclusion

Steve

Today I finally got around to washing the car for the first time in about 3 months.

I maanaged to remove all of the paint transfer from his to my car using t-cut, it came off like butter. Now apart from one small mark my bumper is as good as it was before the bump. I also spotted a minor bend in the front wing where the edge meating the bumper had been pushed in very slightly. As there is no paint damage, I was able to pull it back to the correct shape so all is good once more for the old girl.

The attached pictures show the damage after cleaning, but before I started cleaning away the damage.

Edited 8 November, 200916 yr by mannyo

Would it be worth mentioning to cops, just in case of future change of mind by other party !!!!

I have spoken at some length to the other party this evening, the result of this conversation was this.

As my car is fine and now has no damage showing, and he has looked closely at his bumper and what he seems to have on his car is rubber from my Tyre which has rubbed off onto his bumper and a broken reflector. He is not going to make any claim either, and will get the bumper cleaned up and buy a new reflector.

So as of now, the incident is effectively closed.

Sounds like a sensible outcome.

Shame he couldn't have used his mirrors in the 1st place