British Airways rant..

[expostmanpat]

:clap: yippee at least it isn't Royal Mail getting slagged off this time.

Amazing though isn't it how the general publice seem to think that workers in the Tertiary industries have to just shut up and take whatever the management demand. The publice don't get mealy mouthed about the transport firm going on strike and refusing to move stock for a retailer, Or about HP workers voting to strike, so why should tertiary workers have to bend over.

Very sorry to you and anyone who loses out through strike action, but the people who have the power to stop/avoid strike action are the ones you have paid your money to, and the ones who reap the greatest reward, ie the Owners/directors/ management., I fail to see how you can blame the common worker who is just trying to protect their livelihood. At what point would you stop telling them to shut up and be glad to have a job, minimum wage?? 16 hours a day in the pit?

I wish the CWU had the balls to carry on the postal strikes over xmas, like with the BA workers,it is only through a real threat to the 'fat cats' and share holders bottom line that anything will happen.

[ncarring]

Ironic how most people seem to be siding with the cabin staff, unconsciously, by threatening to boycott BA

The workers are striking at the most crucial time, I would guess, not because they want to make everyone hate them, but to hit the company hardest just when it has one of its busiest periods of the year, and try to force a change of heart in the shortest possible time.

In the end, it probably won't help. Companies wanting to downsize can rarely be forced not to. Eventually financial realities bite, one way or another.

[expostmanpat]

In the end, it probably won't help. Companies wanting to downsize can rarely be forced not to. Eventually financial realities bite, one way or another.

All depends if they are wanting to downsize to 'tighten their belts' or to maximise profits I suppose. Whilst I am sure shareholders like maximum dividends through management squeezing maximum workload, they won't be quite so happy if BA lose their loyal customer base and ultimately have to downsize/ collapse. I feel a lot of companies have jumped on the recession bandwagon as an excuse to maximise profits from underpaid/ overstretched labour. [/A.Scargill mode off]

[Clunkclick]

Ain't Cabin crew just a left over from the class-ridden servitude economy - domestic service in the air. The unions at the airports, particularly Heathrow, have always been the Kremlin's representatives on earth since it opened in the 1940s. They know its a nice soft industrial target and they can exploit the resentment inherent in servitude.

Cabin service might be nice for the passengers in First and Business class who want their egos stroked. But IMHO its a complete waste of time for the rest of ordinary travellers. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing more awkward than trying to consume food and drink in a modern airline seat and nothing more annoying than incentivised cabin crew constantly interrupting your slumber trying to flogg you stuff. Adds monumentally to the tedium of the experience.

I'd save the weight and space, have more roomy seating enabling passengers to circulate at will during the cruise part of the flight and feed them selves from an automat/or buffet counter and/or bring pre-package stuff on -board purchased air side.

Bloody airline industry needs a good dose of imagination to survive

Nick

Edited 15 December, 2009 by Clunkclick

[m17rkj]

More from the Sparing Partners!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article6957484.ece

from that article....

Dominique Whitehead wrote:

I find it difficult to accept the pitiful cries of craving ‘dignity and respect†that BA C/Crew have adopted as their motto. Willie Walsh they decry as an ogre and a bully, pay freezes and employee cuts have become unacceptable, working conditions have deteriorated, etc etc ad nauseum. To this I answer; if life as a BA steward/ess has become so intolerable, why no previous strike actions? Why no previous media coverage? Why such a sudden all-encompassing need to go on strike for this extended period during the most sensitive time of the year? Certainly, Willie Walsh seems to me a rather unpleasant man, but the frankly Machiavellian attitude that the unionists have adopted in their power play with him and the rest of Management is deplorable. They have cynically and methodically thrust an ailing company into a fight in which they hold all of the cards, and in so doing, they are contemptuously playing with the Christmases of almost 1 million passengers. Through this, the C/Crew of British Airways have made it quite clear that to them, the passengers they service and claim to “care about†are nothing more than numbers- not people with cares and worries of their own during this terrible financial year, not people with ailing families and ailing bank accounts who are seeking escapism during the festive season. No, passengers are being treated as numbers to be serviced or toyed with at will and to be thrown into Mr. Walsh’s face like so many taunting threats. So to all of you C/Crew who voted to strike I tell you this; “dignity and respect†is a two way road, and by showing your lack of it towards me and all my fellow passengers, not only have you forever lost my custom, but you have, most importantly, lost any feelings of respect we ever had for you.

couldn't have put it better myself. its actually looking quite positive for my mum's flight at the moment and a good friend ( a BA pilot) of the wife's stepfather is looking into getting her an upgrade

he also gave us a bit of inside information regarding the strike which i won't divulge on legal grounds (perhaps later ) but will affect those who decide to strike. we may get to have a wonderful Christmas after all, though i suspect several thousand others won't be so lucky

Mark

Edited 16 December, 2009 by m17rkj

[Babs]

Do we actually need cabin crew? Sack the lot of them!

[ncarring]

All depends if they are wanting to downsize to 'tighten their belts' or to maximise profits I suppose. Whilst I am sure shareholders like maximum dividends through management squeezing maximum workload, they won't be quite so happy if BA lose their loyal customer base and ultimately have to downsize/ collapse. I feel a lot of companies have jumped on the recession bandwagon as an excuse to maximise profits from underpaid/ overstretched labour. [/A.Scargill mode off]

You don't think a loss of £401 million last year and a further £292 million since March amounts to a reason to look around for savings, then?

[Auric Goldfinger]

Do we actually need cabin crew? Sack the lot of them!

Good Idea, you could have drinks machines at the end of every isle and those sandwich dispensers.

[Babs]

Exactly!

[Anthony 1]

Do we need British Airways?

[pixi]

and...if there are no cabin crew I won't have to put up with hearing that annoying call bong every few minutes, because there will be nobody to call!

(btw, I'm being ironic!)

[Calomax]

IMHO BA is only 1 step above Easy Jet, but still significantly above Ryannair, who after a confrontation last year, I will not fly with ever, ever, ever again, I would rather walk.......................

Excuse me! EasyJet is way above BA. I always try to choose it but would never even consider BA because of its strike history coupled with poor service.

All BA management wants to do is to cut the cabin crew numbers to the same as other airlines in order to cut costs.

I heard BA described on the news this morning as "a huge pensions deficit with an airline attached" and the analyst talking doesn't think it will stay in business much longer.

BA has been advertising cheap fares to many destinations but when you go online you find that they are actually much more expensive than a lot of other airlines.

[Anthony 1]

British Airways are trying to become the major party in the merger with Iberian airways! That is what they are trying to do. They thought that by sacking people willy nilly that it would put them in a position of strength to do so. If I was a major share holder I would be scrutinizing the performance of the management team, banging heads and sacking some them because they have put the company into this predicament. let us not forget BA has been involved in all sorts of dodgy and underhand practices over the years with their battles with other airlines, monopolizing routes and so on. I should imagine that Virgin, Easy Jet and the others are clapping their hands with joy.

[expostmanpat]

You don't think a loss of £401 million last year and a further £292 million since March amounts to a reason to look around for savings, then?

If they are losing so much then shut the whole caboodle down, simples. BUT I bet it didn't stop the CEO's of BA getting a nice bonus and pay rise last year. (Haven't been arsed to look it up, if you want to feel free, you may even win the used Prophylactic I am wagering

[M12MKD]

trouble is as usally the top dont seem to loose out as nick said the CEO's still got a nice bonus last year and yet the staff that actually run the company are faced with loosing their jobs. Yes I agree that what they are doing is very very stupid at the moment.

I hope it does not cost BA its business as I have alot of family that works there. Also agreed that the union does often stich up the work force I really dont know why they bother with it.

[cjb]

after having lost my Dad to cancer back in February Mum decided it would be nice to come out to us for Christmas.

Sorry to hear of your loss. It's about 11 years ago my Dad died, and the pain fades, but you never forget it.

she flies in on the 22nd december, or now, maybe not because the selfish cabin crew have decided to go on strike. now, i couldn't give less of a sh!te if i tried about the politics of the situation, all i care about is my and several thousand other peoples Christmas's are likely to get screwed because a few militant dimwits can't sort out their problems like grown-ups. guess who i will never be flying with again....

rant over

Mark

Well indeed. There will be very little public support of this strike for exactly this kind of reason. It's not *just* the crew though, BA are to blame as well.

Edited 16 December, 2009 by cjb

[gadgetman]

All depends if they are wanting to downsize to 'tighten their belts' or to maximise profits I suppose. Whilst I am sure shareholders like maximum dividends through management squeezing maximum workload, they won't be quite so happy if BA lose their loyal customer base and ultimately have to downsize/ collapse. I feel a lot of companies have jumped on the recession bandwagon as an excuse to maximise profits from underpaid/ overstretched labour. [/A.Scargill mode off]

All firms have to tighten their belts to keep going. Costs are rising, cash flow is limited, and many assets firms such as BA and RM own have been made worthless.

My issue in the RM thread wasnt with RM. It's the unions choosing NOW to flex their muscles and effectively hold the company and thus their customer base to ransom mostly for a pay increase.

I like many others wont be getting any rise, and have been lucky our employer has ridden the storm so far OK. If me any my colleagues held our boss to ransom, we'd get replaced.

Do we actually need cabin crew? Sack the lot of them!

Bit harsh. They're being misguided, like RM workers and rail workers, that striking is good. Yes you do need cabin crew, as they ensure you're safe in the air and are trained to help you should their be an accident.

If they are losing so much then shut the whole caboodle down, simples. BUT I bet it didn't stop the CEO's of BA getting a nice bonus and pay rise last year. (Haven't been arsed to look it up, if you want to feel free, you may even win the used Prophylactic I am wagering

BA top brass agreed to take no pay increase or bonuses to show they're no immune them selves.

[cjb]

I have to say that Unite really ****ed this one up. I'm a member of Unite, and quite frankly I'm disgusted that they couldn't organise the ballot correctly. The laws are very clear on how you organise a ballot and have been for many years- mainly to stop the farce that was the 1970s BL strikes etc. I fully agree with the workers right to strike, but the ballot to do so should be correctly conducted, and the strikers should be aware of the full impact of what they do, and should think.

Anyone who catches my usual posts on such matters will know that I'm a staunch defender of trade unions, but this is a real mess. Mid you, a union that has 2 general secretaries because they can't decide who to have....

[Anthony 1]

I agree with what you say, people should have the right to withdraw their labors, if they have just cause and go through the proper processes. It is a very poor show to be represented by people who can not adhere to the correct way of doing things , it is shoddy practice and will cost support all round. I have seen some of the representatives on the News programs. One must be most careful in allowing ones self to be influence by British News programs but the footage did not show people of the greatest intellect or acumen. It does seem to be a bit of a shambles. So with this and the generally poor and hawkish management of BA, I think that the work force are in a most uncomfortable position. I hope that the best compromise is worked out eventually.

I have to say that Unite really ****ed this one up. I'm a member of Unite, and quite frankly I'm disgusted that they couldn't organise the ballot correctly. The laws are very clear on how you organise a ballot and have been for many years- mainly to stop the farce that was the 1970s BL strikes etc. I fully agree with the workers right to strike, but the ballot to do so should be correctly conducted, and the strikers should be aware of the full impact of what they do, and should think.

Anyone who catches my usual posts on such matters will know that I'm a staunch defender of trade unions, but this is a real mess. Mid you, a union that has 2 general secretaries because they can't decide who to have....

Edited 19 December, 2009 by Anthony 1

[expostmanpat]

All firms have to tighten their belts to keep going. Costs are rising, cash flow is limited, and many assets firms such as BA and RM own have been made worthless.

My issue in the RM thread wasnt with RM. It's the unions choosing NOW to flex their muscles and effectively hold the company and thus their customer base to ransom mostly for a pay increase.

I like many others wont be getting any rise, and have been lucky our employer has ridden the storm so far OK. If me any my colleagues held our boss to ransom, we'd get replaced.

BA top brass agreed to take no pay increase or bonuses to show they're no immune them selves.

You really don't know what the ... you are talking about do you? The RM strike had absolutely nothing to do with pay, even though we got a 0% pay rise this year. AND when would yopu say the best time to strike was from the strikers prospective, during the annual holidays??? Oh and it is illeagal to sack someone for undertaking a legal strike.

AND for your infomation it is the government that have made RM assetts worthless by selling off most of their prime town and city sites and then leasing them back from the private owners at vastly inflated rates.

Oh but you do win the used prophylactic ! (I'll knock one out tonight and get it in the post to you, of course being RM you may never receive it )

[gilesk]

I think that your last comment Postman Pat was way over the line and not in the spirit of this site. Perhaps think twice posting late at night.

Back on topic, I do not understand how the Unite can justify this action, BA is in trouble, they are trying to fix it and some sacrfices have to be made. I think the people who are talking about the fat cats etc are being a little naive, BA is hemmoraging money and the only people who can turn it around are experienced succesful business leaders, these guys do not come cheap. When BA does go to the wall people will be looking for work, Unite will still be there perpertuating their own existence through disharmony under the umbrella of pretecting the rights of workers.

I also don't really think the anology that cabin crew are the poor down trodden masses carries much water, there are a lot less fortunate people out there with no jobs or jobs that do not pay an average of 30k a year, nurses with 10-19 years experience get at most 26.5 K Firemen 31k for the same experience, (I know it is more but they risk their lives every day) 22k for a postman. start getting the picture here? they are spoilt! BA need to get their house in order this is true, they are wasting money and need to be a more efficient company. However asking them to try and do this whilst also trying to make the comany lose more money is not the smartest thing in the world.

Rant over.

[gadgetman]

This is certainly a rhetorical stance.

Striking because they may be cuts, which drives away customers, which means cuts to jobs so another strike called. The Fujitsu strike is also equally an bizarre decision.

This is why I dont understand how a union's membership can believe anything good will come from striking under such circumstances.

[M12MKD]

The trouble with BA is they cut in the wrong areas and spend in the wrong areas. I'm not going to get into it but anyone that actually works for BA will know what I mean by this.

Edited 15 March, 2010 by polocoupe

[mannyo]

I see from the news, BA think that this strike wont have the impact that the union expect. They are apparently going to run all flights as normal from London City airport, 60% from Heathrow and other airports. The other 40% are expected to be covered by moving passengers onto other airlines or flights where seats are available. They are saying that everyone should get to their destination, albeit slightly delayed or on another airline. They have chartered a lot of spare capacity from Jet2, and other smaller airlines, and these will be used from Heathrow T5.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8569069.stm

[cheezemonkhai]

The trouble with BA is they cut in the wrong areas and spend in the wrong areas. I'm not going to get into it but anyone that actually works for BA will know what I mean by this.

You mean like no food on short flights, only snacks. How will I cope on my less than 5 hour flight?

Reducing the cabin crew, again no problem because most of the time even on a full flight they seem to be chatting away.

Yes I like BA, but Virgin are cheaper and no worse in my experience. They also use fewer crew per flight.

Yes I do know somebody who works as cabin crew and while I sympathise, I can't see the point of striking just to lose more customers.

Certainly we usually use them in europe and have avoided them since the whole thing kicked off before xmas. That's a lot of lost flights.