Honest Johns take on ESP problems

[bond007]

dont get me wrong i'm not biased because i work for VAG i was just asking the question, the fact of the matter is i'm not sure if these are modified units, i suspect they may be because they withdrew all uk stock for a month before re stocking the uk, was this to solve the problem? i'm not sure but they werent available for a while we had 10 on order for customers. as far as everybody elses premiums going up you could say that about a million things, why do people make false claims on their house insurance? because it puts everyone elses up

[Rhoobarb]

dont get me wrong i'm not biased because i work for VAG i was just asking the question, the fact of the matter is i'm not sure if these are modified units, i suspect they may be because they withdrew all uk stock for a month before re stocking the uk, was this to solve the problem? i'm not sure but they werent available for a while we had 10 on order for customers. as far as everybody elses premiums going up you could say that about a million things, why do people make false claims on their house insurance? because it puts everyone elses up

Surely if they had solved it wouldnt they be making a big hoohaa about it? customer care and priority, etc. Unless they hope to sweep it all under the rug to avoid it being a recall which would cost a fortune for them I would think.

"What mass fault?" *shrug*

Edited 2 April, 2010 by Rhoobarb

[bond007]

but if you make a big song and dance about solving it your admitting there was a problem in the first place...................

[Rhoobarb]

but if you make a big song and dance about solving it your admitting there was a problem in the first place...................

"What mass fault?" *shrug*

My point exactly, my dealer was very condescending regarding the whole issue, they must know there's a problem. But from information on here and other sources, seem to be more willing to dodge any responsibility to it

The problem seems to be too widespread to deny it, but there we are anyway.

Such is life

Edited 2 April, 2010 by Rhoobarb

[cheezemonkhai]

VWAG dodging issues... say it isn't so

[Stu999]

I've just been quoted £870 to have this unit replaced at the dealers. I'm hoping to persue a 'goodwill' claim with skoda as the dealers are not inrested. Has anyone had any luck with this?

If that fails I think I'll go with the rebuild from ECU testing and get my local garage to do the work.

Totaly miffed at the whole thing.

[fikes75]

I've just been quoted £870 to have this unit replaced at the dealers. I'm hoping to persue a 'goodwill' claim with skoda as the dealers are not inrested. Has anyone had any luck with this?

If that fails I think I'll go with the rebuild from ECU testing and get my local garage to do the work.

Totaly miffed at the whole thing.

I got a goodwill payment of 60% ended up paying £394 all in, 24k miles and full Skoda service history which they said helped.

[sparky2]

:S Well mine is a FL 09 Scout and here is a scan of the car - is this the infamous mk60 ? whats the last 2 letters telling us (AP) have Skoda modified the units ? cheers - Stuart.

Address 03: ABS Brakes

Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 379 AP

Component and/or Version: ESP MK60EC1 H45 0107

Software Coding: 133B401C0A220002C81302EB501B00822900

[blueR36]

I got a goodwill payment of 60% ended up paying £394 all in, 24k miles and full Skoda service history which they said helped.

That was good,how long out of warranty ?

[Stu999]

Did you ask skoda for the goodwill or the dealers? As my dealer local is not intrested.

[Hauptmann]

I am amazed so many people are so compliant and try for 'goodwill'. Goodwill doesn't come into the equation. Customers have a clear case under Sale of Goods Act. This is a major non-serviceable part which is insufficiently durable - go to Small Claims Court and claim in full, plus any costs (diagnostics, phone calls etc).

I had an Ericsson mobile phone that failed after 2 years due to a fault with an electronic component. Ericsson would not repair for free and stated it was out of warranty. I argued that a £250 mobile phone should last longer than 2 years (I argued 4 years as a reasonable expectation). Ericsson would not budge so I went to SCC and got £250 I claimed for, plus £70 costs.

Assert your consumer rights and don't let the dealer brush you off.

Edited 13 April, 2010 by Hauptmann

[cheezemonkhai]

If they say no, drop a small court order on the door of the supplying dealer.

[Chaosdarkknight]

So please someone clear this up for me,

I just bought a Octy vRS Estate, it was in stock, made within the last two weeks...

Will this effect me, I mean the problem with ESP and all.?

Please advise

[fikes75]

That was good,how long out of warranty ?

My car was 50 weeks out of warranty .

[fikes75]

Did you ask skoda for the goodwill or the dealers? As my dealer local is not intrested.

I phoned Skoda customer services who in turn phoned the garage to get the logs from my ecu , they offered me 50% to start with but i phoned back and asked them to take into account the low miles and full Skoda service history so they upped it to a final offer of 60% but there was a time limit for the garage to reclaim the money back.

[Andrew S Wales]

You can probably add another failure to the list - was about to begin my journey home from work this evening and upon starting the car the ESP warning lights came on and have stayed on since. Only got the car a 2 months ago from a Skoda main dealer so I hope the Approved Used Car Warranty will cover it (can't see any obvious exclusions anyway). I've also had water ingress problems in the footwells and have had all 4 door panels re-sealed so not a good start to Skoda ownership for me. Great car apart from these faults though!

[Minimoke]

Chaosdarknight. In answer to your question the rule of thumb appears to be that if your vehicle is fitted with ESP then it uses the duff Teeves 60 unit. The problem affects other manufacturers apart from VW and Skoda. The unit may have been modified at some stage during its lifecycle to deal with this problem but this is far from clear. The manufacturers are being cagy with info about this so draw your own conclusions. But as your vehicle is new you should have 3 years warranty which should cover it,

In my opinion VAG are taking the "Toyota defence" to the limit. It now emerges that Toyota knew about the problem with their accelerator pedals 4 years ago but did nothing apart from issue denials. VAG still continue to deny that Teves units are inherently faulty for a similar period of time. I think they (and BMW) are in too deep to change their stance unless forced to do so by some extraordinary event - which is precisely what happened to Toyota and which forced them to recant.

Hauptmann is right. You have rights which you should exercise. "Goodwill" is helpful but is a palliative to try and make you feel good, but will still cost you. Are you aware that Skoda offer "less" goodwill than VW over this particular problem? And that VW offer less "goodwill" than other manufacturers?

There is enough evidence from the internet alone (and in particular look at the US websites where Audi owners have been flagging this issue for years) to support a Small Claims action if your car has been regulalrly serviced by a reputable garage, and is say 5 years old or less. (The age limit regarding the reasonable "service life" of such this unit the would be open to argument, but 5 years is not unreasonable).

Edited 13 April, 2010 by Minimoke

[Chaosdarkknight]

So basically no matter the age, the chances are that if you have ESP on your Skoda which uses the module Teves MK60, then some time in your cars lifespan you will encounter this problem/fault?!

Which brings me to this, does the fault, deem the ESP function complete useless, by this I mean because the light comes on and doesn't go out again does this indicate that the ESP is always off, or always on?! Or does this vary...because is there any way some one like me (not too clued up on cars) can tell if the ESP is on or off?

Another thing I can't grasp is when is this fault supposed to occur? Is it a lifespan thing, that happens because of the amount the ESP function is being used, or is it completely random and can occur at any time. I mean, I ain't an expert, but what is the advantage of having ESP...and if you were to switch it off would this delay/stop the fault occurring, but not only this reduce the performance of the car.

[NikNak]

From my (limited) knowledge of this fault, the problem is around a sensor failing on the pcb in the sealed unit.

In my experience, sensors can often fail at random points of their life, and it is difficult to predict when this failure will occur.

There could be an argument to suggest that vibration fatigue could cause the early failure of the soldered joints to the sensor.

Either way, if they're being stubborn about replacing it under warranty, then you have nothing to lose by taking it to the small claims court.

[Chaosdarkknight]

Just to add ECU testing say on their website that this is a common fault on modules between 2004 & 2008, and this would now indicated that even though some have had issues with 2009 built cars, they may have still been using old stocks of the MK60 module, and there for new cars from late 2009 onwards should be free from this issue/fault.

Unless someone can confirm that this issue has already happened to them on a new FL version of the car registered from or after late 2009.

Edited 13 April, 2010 by Chaosdarkknight

[Aspman]

Another thing I can't grasp is when is this fault supposed to occur?

4yrs will be the Mean Time to Failure (MTTF).

Rates of failure peak at 4 years but you will have some people who's units fail at 1 year some at 6 years. You're unlikely to hear much from people who had them fail under 3yr because they probably were fixed under warranty without too much argument.

Great, something to look forward to in the next 18 months or so :(

Edited 15 April, 2010 by Aspman

[blueR36]

My car was 50 weeks out of warranty .

Maybe you got a good deal because you look like your profile photo??!! I was 25 weeks and 24460 miles in when mine went and ended up paying £625 . Also Hauptmman have you sucessfully made a claim ?

Edited 15 April, 2010 by bluvrs2

[Andrew S Wales]

You can probably add another failure to the list - was about to begin my journey home from work this evening and upon starting the car the ESP warning lights came on and have stayed on since. Only got the car a 2 months ago from a Skoda main dealer so I hope the Approved Used Car Warranty will cover it (can't see any obvious exclusions anyway). I've also had water ingress problems in the footwells and have had all 4 door panels re-sealed so not a good start to Skoda ownership for me. Great car apart from these faults though!

Finally managed to get the car to a dealer, this is the fault that came up:

1 Fault(s) detected

01435 012

Sender 1 for brake booster -G201-

fault in electrical circuit

The dealer wants to get the car in again to investigate the problem further (hasn't heard of this problem with the ABS unit and neither have 2 other dealers near me). I assume this is the usual fault that will mean the ABS unit will need to be replaced?

[Nick_H]

Very interesting reading as I've just ordered a Scout. It's been asked a few times on the thread but without a conclusive answer.

So. Does it effect cars built from now onwards ?

My plan was to keep the Scout for longer than 3 years so this is a little off putting.

So much so that I may consider cancelling the order and buying a Hyundai Santa Fe instead.

[soapywalrus]

Mine went pop last year. Happily it was done under warranty (after three days for the dealer to confirm and solve the problem), but I am now a month from the end of my warranty and would be watching the dash very nervously if I wasn't sure whether it had been done.