Hifi of Yesteryear vs Today's effort!

[swordstoke]

Used to be a bit of a HIFI nut and would spend every penny I had on any upgrade that would squeeze every ounce of musicality out of a box!

Still got a few of the old boxes up in the loft and decided to bring a few down and compare with what I'm using today.

Old System

Linn Turntable - Naim Nait - Linn Kans all circa 83 and still working!

vs

PS3 - Onkyo Receiver - AADE48 Speaakers.

Ok not high end stuff but both enjoyable and serving up some good sounds.

Put Floyds DSOTM on (dont yawn) the turntable and have to admit it did raise a big smile.

Forgot how good the Kans are and revelled in the way the sound just involved you without forcing itself on you.

Playing cd version on the PS3 was a suprise(purists go into apoplexy) as it had a bigger scale and was equally detailed

but what it didnt do was draw you into the music the way the old system did.

What Ive learnt is that you need elements of both to keep you interested and glad I brought the old system down!

Be interested to hear what is out there that would keep you investing in Lp's/CD's with this Blueray revolution taking over?

Just listening to 'Sheffield Test Drum Record' and laughing at the baby Kans ability to produce a convincing bass drum sound from a 5" bass unit

[Leeland]

Cool subject, always remember the advent of the CD (think Dire Straights' 'Brothers In Arms', was one of the first big launches) my old man always said

CD was too 'tinny', which at the time I thought was silly, but there's something in it, vinyl sounded more natural on the old 1210's.

You mention Blu-ray but not so long ago they were hyping DVD audio vs SACD, for multi channel audio, as a potential format war,

for something that never really took off, nowt wrong with good quality two channel audio

[Neo_VR]

I agree.. seems modern systems for all their DSP and multi-channel glory have lost their way. my Trusty old Kenwood 3020SE sounds far better and more detailed then my Onkyo ever could..

Its a sacrifice i was willing to make however being that all of my music is digital now, and any heavy listening is usually on headphones via ipod.

Ive also learnt about speakers "fit for purpose" - again my old mission bookshelf speakers just sounding a million times better for music then my 5x more expensive Q-acoustic surround-sound setup.. more than likely due to the missions being full range whilst the Q's needing a sub to back them up.

[mannyo]

My CD player is a vintage one dating back to the mid 80's and still works perfectly today despite it being 25 years old. Its the first six disk changer sold worldwide, a Pioneer PDM6 and was considered a high end product.

[uncle bulgaria]

OMG my Brother-in-Law was a real hifi buff, Mission Amps, Quad Electrostatics, Linn Sondek, Rosewood cartridge etc. He got me into it, but i never had the budget. So i've always had to wait until yesterdays "higher end" was "old & out of date"!

Used to have Mission (752's i think) Denon 850 amps Rega Plannar 3 & Merridion MCD CD Player.

Still have the Rega (25+ years old!), now with a Linn Adikt, but over the last few years have linked it to Cyrus stuff ans some Quad 22L's as i also needed to free up some space. Nothing I like better than getting out the Sheffield Labs Test disc or Harry James! They were the Brother-in-Law's, cost him a fortune but will still push a modern system!

Nothing wrong with older gear IMHO, it's whether or not it sounds good to the listeners ear that matters!

[swordstoke]

Definately something to be said keeping it 2 channel!

Found my Audio Technica A637 Stylus cleaner and left the Asak stylus resting on it for 20 mins.

Put 'Tales of mystery and Imagination' by Alan Parsons on the platter and it blew me away!

Driven rest of family out of the house while I enjoy a bit of selfish endulging!

Even found some Audioquest interconnects and laughably some Russ Andrews sorbothane feet for the Nait to absorb

those unwanted resonances, although whether I could really tell a difference was debateable lol

To top it off I found a box of old hifi mags to flick through dating back to 1978! Oh how things have changed!

Thanks for your responses chaps

[uncle bulgaria]

Ooooohhhhh mature hifi porn

Yeah it amazes me that folk will buy expensive modern stuff and still use bell wire for speaker cables! Good quality cables made the biggest difference to how my system sounds IMHO. I was in my local HiFi shop browsing their SH stuff a few years ago and noticed a dist covered real or Chord Rumour 4 bi wire. Looked like it hadn't been touched in years, so i made them an offer of £10. They asked if i was sure as "there can't be much left". Def sure, got home & I had 4 meters! A rummage around in my spares & i found enough matched terminals to do the job! well chuffed & a good sound improvement to boot :yes:

[swordstoke]

Spot on!

Seen(heard) it many a time and the look you get when you tell them they arent really listening to it at its best is at first one of suprise but a little tweeking here and there and voila! They are more than impressed! Doesnt always have to cost though as it can be as basic as placement of speakers or isolating equipment a bit better etc

Did have a go at making my own interconnects using 6mm copper pipe and DNM silver wire through the middle! You gotta laugh!

Starting to develop the 'Hifi' bug syndrome again(oh no!) and looking at that very compact and bijou Naim Uniti! (dont tell the wife lol)

Those old mags have a lot to answer for!

[Soot1e]

Yes, Some nice equiptment listed above.

Tweaking an analogue HI-Fi sytem was good fun and I learnt a lot about sound system components.

Sometimes my old Sugden A48 (Liquorice Allsort) comes down from the loft and I just have to listen to it, warm involving sound that does not tire the ears even at high volume. All of this digital stuff just does not have a realistic soundstage of the old analogue gear.

I currently have Mission Cyrus amps and Cyrus CDplayer with Rega speakers, tele goes through there as well and sounds good. CD's are all different in the same way as vinyl records depend on production of the music and quality of the materials used, yes you can tell the difference.

[Rob.]

OMG my Brother-in-Law was a real hifi buff, Quad Electrostatics,

I'm an Audio Restoration Engineer.. (No, really.. I am).. I work with a system called Cambridge, made by Cedar.

I monitor with Quad ESL - 63's... They really are insanely detailed and the stereo image is amazing! I can hear every click and pop before I remove them

As for the Vinyl vs CD argument.. it's really not that straight forward.. CD IS better then vinyl, sorry.. but that is the truth.. What differs is the mastering!

If you got the original master tape that your Vinyl was cut from and did a flat transfer onto CD it'd wipe the floor with the LP.

The real probelm is something called the loudness war which is sufficating the air and space out of CD releases.. follow the link... Loudness War - Wikipedia

This is why the older releases feel so much warmer and more involving!

All the above said... As for modern day gear vs older stuff.. I think you can still get the quality you used to, but it costs more..

My Dad recently reaplced his Hi-Fi he bought in the late 60's, A Bush-Rank Arena system.. He got a Nad Amp, Nad CD player and some Celestion speakers.. It took me a long time to convince him his Bush was past it (the flex around the cones was starting to dry out).. but he completely agrees now that the new stuff is easily as good, if not better.. and in total it came to about £500.

Edited 3 June, 2010 by Rob.

[philc]

I'm an Audio Restoration Engineer.. (No, really.. I am).. I work with a system called Cambridge, made by Cedar.

I monitor with Quad ESL - 63's... They really are insanely detailed and the stereo image is amazing! I can hear every click and pop before I remove them

As for the Vinyl vs CD argument.. it's really not that straight forward.. CD IS better then vinyl, sorry.. but that is the truth.. What differs is the mastering!

If you got the original master tape that your Vinyl was cut from and did a flat transfer onto CD it'd wipe the floor with the LP.

The real probelm is something called the loudness war which is sufficating the air and space out of CD releases.. follow the link... Loudness War - Wikipedia

This is why the older releases feel so much warmer and more involving!

All the above said... As for modern day gear vs older stuff.. I think you can still get the quality you used to, but it costs more..

My Dad recently reaplced his Hi-Fi he bought in the late 60's, A Bush-Rank Arena system.. He got a Nad Amp, Nad CD player and some Celestion speakers.. It took me along time to convince him his Bush was past it (the flex around the cones was starting to dry out).. but he completely agrees now that the new stuff is easily s good, if not better.. and in total it came to about £500.

As far as the loudness war goes, lots of info here http://www.turnmeup.org/

One recent album that had no compression at all is Elbow's "Seldom Seen Kid" -anyone who played the opening track too loud will know what I mean. The blare of trumpets will scare you the first time

Phil

[skomaz]

Found my Audio Technica A637 Stylus cleaner and left the Ittok stylus resting on it for 20 mins.

Put 'Tales of mystery and Imagination' by Alan Parsons on the platter and it blew me away!

Driven rest of family out of the house while i enjoy a bit of selfish endulging!

He he - made me laugh that - I've been trying to get hold of a S/H AT637 to clean the stylus on my Michell properly but they seem to go for silly money now...

I also have lots of the Alan Parsons Project - including Tales and the wife hates it...

Got to be listened to though!

[swordstoke]

Think thats' the magic of good HIFI as it makes you forget about the system and just enjoy the music!

Talking about systems has brought back memories of some of what I'd had over the years..

Rega3 - Basic arm - AR P77 Cartridge - Nytech CTA252 - AR18LS

LP12 - basic arm - K9 Cart - Meridian 101-105s - IMF TLS80

LP12 Ittok arm - Asak cart - Naim 32-5 - nap160 - Linn Sara + Linn Kans

Lp12(another one) - Ekos arm - Troika Cart - Naim 72- Hicap - nap250 -Linn Isobarik (fav all time system that had to go in 1990 due to gold band being attached to finger).

Had a play with AR60 nad 3020, Myst, Creek4040, Electrocompaniet,iON obelisk, Quad 33-303, denon pma350, dual 505, Aurex mini monitors, Nakamichi ,Pink Triangle, Dunlop systemdeck, Stax Lamda pro sig, as was lucky enough to have a saturday job in the 80's at a local proper hifi shop in Hanley.

They sold all of the kit above as well as B&O which looked better than it sounded but you'd be suprised how many people would buy it if you played (Braggs Southbank show tune)Variations by Andrew LLoyd webber as it did attract that type of particular customer!

Brilliant times and many good memories of playing around with products made by Peter Belt ,Russ Andrews,DNM etc

Found an old 'ZeroStat' gun as well lol

[uncle bulgaria]

Ohhhhhhhhh!!!! Fetch a mop!!!!

More HiFi Porn!!!!! Top quality stuff there!

I can only dream!

[swordstoke]

Just about to retire the old CRT tv from the lounge!

Got a Plasma in the dining room for games duty(keeps son happy) but its big for the lounge so just having a gander at what's about!

The old CRT is a Loewe Mimo 32 and has been brilliant but with no hdmi has made it obsolete even though it still produces a fab picture and good sound.

Technology is moving so fast equipment becomes redundant and your cajoled into retiring it to early!

So... 40inch max and probably LED 3D as its the new kid on the block.(circa £2K!)

or do I save my money and go for a quality non 3D at about £800 and wait a couple of years for 3D to settle?

Anyone out there invested in 3D yet?

[Dr Zoidberg]

There's only a tiny amount of 3d content, and much of that is going to be sport, so unless you are obesessed with football I'd buy a good LED backlit LCD panel for the price you suggest and upgrade in a few years if needed.

[swordstoke]

To be honest I think like all new products they will come down drastically in price so investing now might be unwise.

So, time to look for a decent spec (non 3D) 40incher! Big fan of Loewe but seen some Samslugs that have impressed!

Time to do a little research...

[Loz]

How did this end up on tellys? lol.

As for Hi-Fi's, I think a lot of people have replaced them with cinema systems, and they don't sound as good to me......

In the early 90's we got a Technics Hi-Fi, with the best amp possible, and it is still better than any other music playing implement in the house, including a cinema system, a theatre stand, my two stereos and my PC speakers, although they sound pretty good, and prob come second for me! It's is an old Hi-Fi, but it is just awesome!

[swordstoke]

Quite right!

Sad thing is that Telly's are integral to most peoples Hifi nowadays and for me that's what ruins the experience.

Cinema systems have there place but you cant beat a good Pair of speakers and quality front end for prolonged listening pleasure!

Keep it simple and the rewards are to be had.

Had a quick look on ebay and found an NAD3020(amp) Rega2(turntable) Wharfdale Diamonds(speaker) for £190! Cheap and very cheerful!

[Chris GB]

There is still stuff around to tweak up the original gear too. The Rega Planar 3 used to be a good bet, a bit of motor noise and speed instability, but at the time and price, not much else to match it in terms of its overall performance. Now you can buy a used one for peanuts, get a motor upgrade and a tonearm mod kit from Origin Live for a relatively small outlay and you have serious kit for next to nothing.

I am soon to get an old Musical Fidelity A1 restored and upgraded. This will feed a pair of custom made high efficiency / easy load floor standers, so power wont be an issue. Really looking forward to getting the music back in the house.

EDIT: Zerostat, still got mine

Chris

Edited 15 June, 2010 by Chris GB

[swordstoke]

There is still stuff around to tweak up the original gear too. The Rega Planar 3 used to be a good bet, a bit of motor noise and speed instability, but at the time and price, not much else to match it in terms of its overall performance. Now you can buy a used one for peanuts, get a motor upgrade and a tonearm mod kit from Origin Live for a relatively small outlay and you have serious kit for next to nothing.

I am soon to get an old Musical Fidelity A1 restored and upgraded. This will feed a pair of custom made high efficiency / easy load floor standers, so power wont be an issue. Really looking forward to getting the music back in the house.

EDIT: Zerostat, still got mine

Chris

Was the MFA1 the one you could fry an egg on after about 10mins of use? Used to go to Wilmslow Audio to get speaker components and had many a happy time trying to get a good sound from an inexpensive box! Good sounds all around!

Still hurts when you zap your tongue

[Chris GB]

Was the MFA1 the one you could fry an egg on after about 10mins of use? Used to go to Wilmslow Audio to get speaker components and had many a happy time trying to get a good sound from an inexpensive box! Good sounds all around!

Still hurts when you zap your tongue

That was the one, hotbox. The secret to getting a good sound from them was to use a very easy speaker load and NAIM NACA5 speaker cable. You could fry eggs on the A1, but getting the eggs off the corrugated top could be a bit tricky!

Chris

[uncle bulgaria]

Did a motor upgrade to my Rega P3, much better!

Did a bit of an upgrade to the arm myself, but still keep thinking of the OL upgrade!

Wish I could find my Zero Stat! Seemed to disappear with a load of LP's & CD's after our last house move!

[swordstoke]

Managed to get hold of some of my old vinyl records most of which still reside at my parents!

Piggin cat has used the backs of them as a scratch post and somehow they have got damp(if Its cat pee then I will have a new mit to clean car with) lol

Anyone ever used the 'Keith Monks' record cleaner?

Hoping I can hire one as Ive got at least 500+ to clean!

[Chris GB]

Managed to get hold of some of my old vinyl records most of which still reside at my parents!

Piggin cat has used the backs of them as a scratch post and somehow they have got damp(if Its cat pee then I will have a new mit to clean car with) lol

Anyone ever used the 'Keith Monks' record cleaner?

Hoping I can hire one as Ive got at least 500+ to clean!

I have bought used vinyls and had them cleaned on the KM machine. Seems to work really well. It wont get rid of scratches, but does a very good job on the dust.

Chris