The advantages of Xenon lights

[900000]

This link should open the Automotive News monthly PDF. This issue is US based but go to page 56 to read about the advantages of adaptive lighting and the future of LED lighting.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/crain/an8994223406BCTBW/index.php

Also interesting to note on page 58 that they say all Xenon systems gives the driver a better product except that in the Nissan Qashqai! Apparently their Xenons do not use a lens system to channel the light were it is needed and offered exactly 0% benefit over the car's standard Halogen system!

So I'm well chuffed by the Yeti having not just normal Xenons but bi-Xenons AND being adaptive with a cornering function.

[rockhopper]

I had a 535d m sport for a while and it had cornering xenons. They were awesome. Even better than the standard xenons on my 530d. I too am looking forward to the bi xenons as I drive quite a bit in the evenings to see clients. In the mean time I put some philips Xtreme vision 100% bulbs in the polo and they are soooo much better than what was inthere before.

Mike

[Macdemon]

Just a pity that the DRL are not Xenons or LEDs'

[Llanigraham]

I find this mention of Xenon lights totally confusing because in the UK we have 2 systems that sell themselves using the term "XENON"

Firstly, and what I consider to be Xenon, is what has been sold for some years. This is the standard halogen bulb, but with xenon gas instead, such as:

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/product_detail.asp?prod=2055

or

http://www.autobulbsonline.co.uk/#Anchor_Osram_NightBreaker

Secondly, we have what I describe as H I D (high intensity discharge).

http://www.ringautomotive.co.uk/cats3.asp?cat1=1&cat2=47

and I think what some people also call bi-xenon.

So what is this article stating?

I have experienced both systems, althought the HID was a few years ago. My Yeti has the standard system and will be upgraded to the Osram H4 bulbs fairly soon. Those I find are perfectly capable for my driving. They give a good range and definition. The HID lamps I see in the likes of BMW's and Range Rovers I dislike. They may give good range, but they seem to "blind" more and cause more scatter.

Interestingly HID auxillary lamps are now banned by the MSA for road rallying, and my local garage/MOT centre have lately been failing many cars with HID replacement bulbs due to poor "aim" and lack of washers.

EDIT, with pedant hat on, HID systems aren't bulbs either, they are lighting units, as there isn't a filament!

Edited 11 October, 2010 by Llanigraham

[Merlinman]

Once you've driven behind a set of correctly installed Bi-xenons you won't want anything else!

Forget auxilliary lights for road use with them - not needed

[rockhopper]

I find this mention of Xenon lights totally confusing because in the UK we have 2 systems that sell themselves using the term "XENON"

Firstly, and what I consider to be Xenon, is what has been sold for some years. This is the standard halogen bulb, but with xenon gas instead, such as:

http://www.ringautom...l.asp?prod=2055

or

http://www.autobulbs...am_NightBreaker

Secondly, we have what I describe as H I D (high intensity discharge).

http://www.ringautom...?cat1=1&cat2=47

and I think what some people also call bi-xenon.

So what is this article stating?

I have experienced both systems, althought the HID was a few years ago. My Yeti has the standard system and will be upgraded to the Osram H4 bulbs fairly soon. Those I find are perfectly capable for my driving. They give a good range and definition. The HID lamps I see in the likes of BMW's and Range Rovers I dislike. They may give good range, but they seem to "blind" more and cause more scatter.

Interestingly HID auxillary lamps are now banned by the MSA for road rallying, and my local garage/MOT centre have lately been failing many cars with HID replacement bulbs due to poor "aim" and lack of washers.

I've not looked at the article, but HID & Xenon are the same thing. There are some regular H4/H7 bulbs that have xenon gas in them, but i personally don't think they are any better than the standard bulbs, just a whiter/bluer colour and nowhere near the likes of the Philips Xtreme Vision 100% or the Osram Nightbreakers for ordinary lights.

Aftermarket HID kits are illegal and rightly so should be an MOT failure if they don't self level and have headlight washers fitted.

I fitted a genuine Hella Xenon (HID) headlight kit a few years ago to my 523i touring then transferred it to my 530d touring. To be legal it needed to be self levelling and have headlamp washers. It was the same as fitted by BMW, but it cost £600, not the £2500 BMW quoted me. I fitted the self levelling actuator and I already had headlight washers fitted. They were fantastic. they were OEM, just without BMW stamped on them. They were set up correctly and never failed an MOT.

As Merlinman says, correctly adjusted they are fantastic and you wouldn't need anything else. Don't think you can retro fit without a vast bill. I looked into fitting to my octavia, but the cost was prohibitive - even more than BMW's quote!

Mike

Edited 11 October, 2010 by rockhopper

[cavdad]

So glad i chose the Xenon option, far, far, better than anything else i've experienced.

The technology underlying the whole issue of HID / Xenon is way, way, above my somewhat limited intellectual capacity, but those with the nessesary smarts may like to look towards end of this article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp

[Terfyn]

Just to be provocative, let me quote from the Wiki article:

The contrary argument is that HID headlamps can negatively impact the vision of oncoming traffic due to their high intensity and "flashing" effect due to the rapid transition between low and high illumination in the field of illumination, thus increasing the risk of a head-on collision between the HID-enabled vehicle and a blinded oncoming driver.

and in the same article:

HID headlamps are markedly less prevalent in the US, where they have produced significant glare complaints.

This has been my experience of these lights and that is why I would not have them fitted. If there is any advantage of halogen, it is that the light source is very focussed and, on dipped beam, produces less glare for oncoming traffic. Now they may be nicer to drive behind but they can be very nasty for oncoming drivers.

I am sure that all the HID owners will be up in arms and rushing to defend their precious lights but I, for one, do not wish to be the cause of another driver being "blinded" by these lights being fitted to my car.

Just call me caring.

[Llanigraham]

Terfyn,

you are not alone, as I sit in the same camp.

[redandwhitepauly]

Look at the number of assholes that drive around all night with their front fog lights on for no reason other than being a complete knobhead, and therefore long live the bi-xenons !!

[rockhopper]

I am constantly blinded around London and Surrey by non HID drivers as they tend, in my opinion to be less well adjusted than HID cars, or drive with only one headlight working & no offside lighting whatsoever-very dangerous. (I have personally never had a HID bulb blow in over 100,000 miles of driving with them, and most of those miles were at night due to my work at the time.)

But the worst culprats are the ones who drive around with their fog lights on. That is illegal, except on a very few occasions. They dazzle and are designed to be that way. I wish drivers would be stopped and fined more by police for this, but alas, with all the cuts, there will be less police.... (and those who drive at 60 on a clear motorway in the middle lane causing congestion). (rant over)

I have my theories as an accident investigator, but for moderator reasons will not publish my findings!

Mike

You beat me to it Reswhiteandpauly!

[redandwhitepauly]

I am constantly blinded around London and Surrey by non HID drivers as they tend, in my opinion to be less well adjusted than HID cars, or drive with only one headlight working & no offside lighting whatsoever-very dangerous. (I have personally never had a HID bulb blow in over 100,000 miles of driving with them, and most of those miles were at night due to my work at the time.)

But the worst culprats are the ones who drive around with their fog lights on. That is illegal, except on a very few occasions. They dazzle and are designed to be that way. I wish drivers would be stopped and fined more by police for this, but alas, with all the cuts, there will be less police.... (and those who drive at 60 on a clear motorway in the middle lane causing congestion). (rant over)

I have my theories as an accident investigator, but for moderator reasons will not publish my findings!

Mike

You beat me to it Reswhiteandpauly!

Well said, yes I wish the Police would clamp down on this stupid unecessary and ignorant use of fog lights. God knows where the misconception has come from that it in some way makes your car look coool to have front fogs on, because it just makes you look like a knobhead.

Rant over as well lol.

[Terfyn]

Look at the number of assholes that drive around all night with their front fog lights on for no reason other than being a complete knobhead, and therefore long live the bi-xenons !!

I'm sorry but this is a bit of a meaningless argument.

I agree that driving with the foglights on is unnecessary and can be dangerous (despite the fact that correctly adjusted foglights are aimed low and illuminate just in front of the car) This has no relevance to the halogen - HID argument. Badly adjusted HID lamps give worse dazzle than halogen.

Llanigraham and I live in rural areas where street lights just do not exist. (My nearest council run streetlight is 3 miles away) We have very real experience of lighting requirements for cars. I find that good halogen headlights give the right sort of lighting for driving the local lanes especially with the enhanced bulbs available. HID would be far to overpowering especially for oncoming drivers.

What "townies" don't understand is that, around here, we all drive in the middle of the road. - obviously as the road is 9 ft. wide!!! So we meet any oncoming traffic "Head On" usually with main beams lit. So blinding is a very real possibility.

Incidentally the proceedure is to drive slowly - 20 mph or so - and for the driver, nearest to a passing place, to reverse to let the other car through. As country folk seem to have more common sense than town drivers - this proceedure works very well.

[BossFox]

Personally I couldn't care if it's got Xenons or not.

The Rangie has them and cornering lights too. You have no choice.

The Yeti doesn't as they only come on top spec or are optional.

I find modern 'normal' headlight perfectly fine, they are a lot brighter than they used to be anyway.

On the Rangie I manually turned the Xenons down as they were blinding people.

[redandwhitepauly]

I'm sorry but this is a bit of a meaningless argument.

I agree that driving with the foglights on is unnecessary and can be dangerous (despite the fact that correctly adjusted foglights are aimed low and illuminate just in front of the car) This has no relevance to the halogen - HID argument. Badly adjusted HID lamps give worse dazzle than halogen.

Llanigraham and I live in rural areas where street lights just do not exist. (My nearest council run streetlight is 3 miles away) We have very real experience of lighting requirements for cars. I find that good halogen headlights give the right sort of lighting for driving the local lanes especially with the enhanced bulbs available. HID would be far to overpowering especially for oncoming drivers.

What "townies" don't understand is that, around here, we all drive in the middle of the road. - obviously as the road is 9 ft. wide!!! So we meet any oncoming traffic "Head On" usually with main beams lit. So blinding is a very real possibility.

Incidentally the proceedure is to drive slowly - 20 mph or so - and for the driver, nearest to a passing place, to reverse to let the other car through. As country folk seem to have more common sense than town drivers - this proceedure works very well.

I wasnt arguing or disagreeing, merely pointing out I dont like being blinded by innappropriate use of foglights which is done deliberately, whereas my headlights (would they be xenons) are a normal function of the car designed to be brighter and more like daylight (so they say) and if thats the way they are then so be it. Just for your information I too live in a rural area with little street lighting and I for one would appreciate being able to see as much as I possibly can !

[rockhopper]

Neither do I disagree. Even though I live in town, I drive lots down very narrow roads with passing places/have to reverse etc with no street lighting, so I understand what you are saying.

My point is that I am blinded by ALL types of headlights, not just HID and not all the time though, because so may vehicles have front lights which are not adjusted properly.

Mike

[bahnstormer vrs]

For clarity do not confuse bi-xenon with dual xenon.

Bi-xenon (AFAIK) is used to describe xenon (HID) on both dip and main beam from one headlamp bulb but this is controlled by a shutter to cut of the light to provide the dip beam. This is the type used on Yeti and other VAG group cars e.g the Audi I have at present and similar to the halogen lights in Yeti, Fabia and Roomster.

Xenons (HID) in the Octavia rely on a xenon dip beam with fixed cut-off and a separate halogen main beam.

I have yet to drive a car with 'adaptive' xenons but the concept sounds excellent.

Edited 14 October, 2010 by bahnstormer vrs

[EdmundBlackadder]

As someone who came from a Volvo S40 with headlights that had the power equivalent of an Ikea tea light in each lamp I think the standard dipped lights are mighty fine on their own.

Sometimes we like mess around too much with our cars when there is nothing really wrong with them. I fully understand those who live in the deepest parts of the countryside with no street lighting for miles around wanting a little extra oomph but on the whole I think the standard dipped are excellent.

[ernieb]

As someone who came from a Volvo S40 with headlights that had the power equivalent of an Ikea tea light in each lamp I think the standard dipped lights are mighty fine on their own.

Sometimes we like mess around too much with our cars when there is nothing really wrong with them. I fully understand those who live in the deepest parts of the countryside with no street lighting for miles around wanting a little extra oomph but on the whole I think the standard dipped are excellent.

now that is funny "the power equivalent of an Ikea tea light in each lamp" I did have a laugh but sadly I've had cars like that myself and it really makes driving at night or in poor weather a real challenge.

ernieb

[EdmundBlackadder]

I can't tell you how pleased I was when the lease on that car ended as it was genuinely not fun. It was also a joy when I drove the Yeti at night for the first time and realised that the lights were good. Incidentally, stronger bulbs etc made only a minimal difference as the light housing was as poor as the bulbs that Volvo put in.

[skomaz]

Just to be provocative, let me quote from the Wiki article:

HID headlamps are markedly less prevalent in the US, where they have produced significant glare complaints.

I think you might find that is a result of the squishy bouncy suspension most US vehicles are fitted with that results in a 'flashing' type of glare that is exacerbated by Xenons...

[Merlinman]

Yanks are aeons behind Europe in automotive modernity.

Ikea tea lights are probably more than adequate for 55mph limits

[Terfyn]

I think you might find that is a result of the squishy bouncy suspension most US vehicles are fitted with that results in a 'flashing' type of glare that is exacerbated by Xenons...

Probably so. But isn't this the point. HIDs can cause serious glare and can blind. Its not just the suspension but any undulations of the road surface. Around here there is no such thing as a flat road and the car rocking causes the headlights to "flash".

I accept that HIDs must be better to drive behind but not to come face to face with.

This morning, a Merc, driving through Cricieth, had his HIDs on dip. Even in the clear morning weather, the things "dragged" your eyes away from everything else going on to look at those lights. A serious distraction from the rest of the road and road activity.

If it was up to me, HIDs would be banned for town driving - or just banned.

Now where did I put my soapbox?

Edited 14 October, 2010 by Terfyn

[snala]

Using the fact the mis-adjusted HID's cause glare and blind oncoming traffic as an excuse not to have them is a stupid argument. Poorly adjusted halogens do exactly the same thing especially with the cutoff projector lenses most cars have these days. Saying you can't take your eyes off the lights because they are so bright, geez we aren't possums. During the day LED DRL's would be worse if you wanted to be pedantic but visibility is the point anyway!

In any other situation if you got 2.5 times the output for anything with a better quality (in this case light that is more close to sunlight coloured) in the same format you'd be all over it. I wonder if a lot of these comments come from being naive and not having used HID's as there is no comparison in performance, range, spread and colour rendition vs halogens. Bi zenons with the main in HID also, which are rare (as spool up time for an HID is longer hence didn't used to suit main beam on and off) but are becoming more prevalent on top end cars and are even more jaw dropping in practise. Here in NZ where we have a lot of out of town non motorway 100kph windy and rural roads these lights are much safer overall being more powerful and better on the eyes than halogens.

The fact that you say they can blind oncoming cars, same as not reaching the dip switch from main beam and that's much worse, as reason not to have something that is a clear improvement is just short sighted, no pun intended.

Don't blame the technology, blame the people with poorly maintained cars.

Edited 21 October, 2010 by snala

[Terfyn]

Using the fact the mis-adjusted HID's cause glare and blind oncoming traffic as an excuse not to have them is a stupid argument. Poorly adjusted halogens do exactly the same thing especially with the cutoff projector lenses most cars have these days. Saying you can't take your eyes off the lights because they are so bright, geez we aren't possums. During the day LED DRL's would be worse if you wanted to be pedantic but visibility is the point anyway!

In any other situation if you got 2.5 times the output for anything with a better quality (in this case light that is more close to sunlight coloured) in the same format you'd be all over it. I wonder if a lot of these comments come from being naive and not having used HID's as there is no comparison in performance, range, spread and colour rendition vs halogens. Bi zenons with the main in HID also, which are rare (as spool up time for an HID is longer hence didn't used to suit main beam on and off) but are becoming more prevalent on top end cars and are even more jaw dropping in practise. Here in NZ where we have a lot of out of town non motorway 100kph windy and rural roads these lights are much safer overall being more powerful and better on the eyes than halogens.

The fact that you say they can blind oncoming cars, same as not reaching the dip switch from main beam and that's much worse, as reason not to have something that is a clear improvement is just short sighted, no pun intended.

Don't blame the technology, blame the people with poorly maintained cars.

Is the fact that you are from New Zeland a reason for your rather rude and arrogant response?

The argument for HIDs comes from people who drive behind them and not from people like me who have to put up with their glare. I have written that I would not have these HID lights as I would not want others to suffer blinding from these lights as I have.

If you have a problem seeing the road with normal lights, perhaps you should consider your future as a driver.

New Zeland is not alone in having windy and rural roads. Wales has many miles of rural and moorland roads as does the rest of the United Kingdom. We have driven them for years with halogen headlights without any problems and will continue to do so.

So "Possum" keep your "stupid arguments" to yourself until you have something intelligent to add to this discussion.