Given that my CR170 Yeti is apparently sitting at Emden (Wk 41 build) and tentatively arranged for pick-up by me on Friday week, my thoughts are now turning some of the practicalities of using it.

One of the jobs it will be used for is to access a work-site that's 150 yards across a flat muddy field (actually a mix of weeds and rutted bare heavy/sticky clay soil that a farmer uses as a utility area, for eg parking up ginormous machinery, washing out sprayers and the like). I've about zero experience of driving on a surface like this and would obviously prefer not to get stuck on the field.

I realise this is a next to impossible question to answer, but can anyone with more experience give me any pointers at all as to how to recognise when conditions are likely to be just too wet to get adequate traction even with 4wd but - at least for the time being - standard tyres? So far in another 4wd (a current CRV) I've been surprised by how sticky the conditions can get and still allow close to normal driving. But there must come a point with enough rain when there's too much risk of geting stuck. Or is it impossible, at least without an experienced eye, to say just when that point has been reached?

Given that my CR170 Yeti is apparently sitting at Emden (Wk 41 build) and tentatively arranged for pick-up by me on Friday week, my thoughts are now turning some of the practicalities of using it.

One of the jobs it will be used for is to access a work-site that's 150 yards across a flat muddy field (actually a mix of weeds and rutted bare heavy/sticky clay soil that a farmer uses as a utility area, for eg parking up ginormous machinery, washing out sprayers and the like). I've about zero experience of driving on a surface like this and would obviously prefer not to get stuck on the field.

I realise this is a next to impossible question to answer, but can anyone with more experience give me any pointers at all as to how to recognise when conditions are likely to be just too wet to get adequate traction even with 4wd but - at least for the time being - standard tyres? So far in another 4wd (a current CRV) I've been surprised by how sticky the conditions can get and still allow close to normal driving. But there must come a point with enough rain when there's too much risk of geting stuck. Or is it impossible, at least without an experienced eye, to say just when that point has been reached?

I think your last point answers your own question, really. I currently have an Octavia Scout (my Yeti is allegedly build week 48 so hopefully only 7 weeks behind yours!) which has coped with all sorts of rutted, muddy wet fields/parking areas and indeed rutted deep snow on a 1 in 4 incline (all with standard tyres as supplied). I think you reach a point - and it sounds as though you're already there - where you just develop a sort of sixth sense about what the car can handle, might handle, or almost certainly won't handle!

I am assuming the field is fairly level?

Then just go slow, but don't stop in the slop and park on a solid surface. The Haldex is much better than the Honda system, so you should have no problems.

If you do thes very often, more suitable tyres should be on your Christmas list. On-road winter tyres are better, but not the real answer to the situation. Block pattern off-road tyres will be much better, but irritatingly noisy on the road.

Not wishing to earn the disapproval of those who have much more technical knowledge - and maybe more experience of extreme driving conditions - than me, and without wishing to reopen the whole debate which is still going on at length in another thread, I really do wonder about the need for winter tyres. As suggested in my reply above, my Scout coped perfectly well with all that last winter threw at it and we live in a reasaonably remote village in the Yorkshire Dales, accessed either by going up or down 1 in 4 slopes at some point, with hairpin bends, narrow lanes, ungritted roads, etc., etc. As I commented earlier, I think you develop a feel for what your car can do, and so far I haven't made any unreasonable demands of the Scout!

Not wishing to earn the disapproval of those who have much more technical knowledge - and maybe more experience of extreme driving conditions - than me, and without wishing to reopen the whole debate which is still going on at length in another thread, I really do wonder about the need for winter tyres. As suggested in my reply above, my Scout coped perfectly well with all that last winter threw at it and we live in a reasaonably remote village in the Yorkshire Dales, accessed either by going up or down 1 in 4 slopes at some point, with hairpin bends, narrow lanes, ungritted roads, etc., etc. As I commented earlier, I think you develop a feel for what your car can do, and so far I haven't made any unreasonable demands of the Scout!

One thing very few people seem to be thinking about when comparing the 'standard' factory rubber to specific 'winter' or cold weather tyres is.... exactly what were the standard factory tyres?! The Yeti comes with three different options iirc and I know the Goodyears get really bad reviews for any sort of grip in snow and supposedly suffer badly in slushy conditions. Does it follow that the Continentals and Dunlops are quite as bad?

One thing very few people seem to be thinking about when comparing the 'standard' factory rubber to specific 'winter' or cold weather tyres is.... exactly what were the standard factory tyres?! The Yeti comes with three different options iirc and I know the Goodyears get really bad reviews for any sort of grip in snow and supposedly suffer badly in slushy conditions. Does it follow that the Continentals and Dunlops are quite as bad?

My Octy Scout, whose performance I have praised so highly, came equipped with Dunlops. Fair bit of road noise from them in everyday use, however.

I personally have never had the pleasure of owning a 4wd.

I have often had to traverse sticky fields, rutted tracks etc for work, all in standard cars, generally pretty flat though, and in 27 years I have only ever got stuck once. I tried to turn round instead of backing out and went of the hard track area into slurry.

There is definately a knack to crossing muddy field etc, don't start unless you are confident you will get through, even with a 4wd!. Try to start a manouver with enough momentum to reach a safe spot on the other side of the problem area. Don't expect to do severe turns, and always be prepared to turn into skids. Biggest problem is the rear wheels following a rut on a front wheel drive, just keep the powered wheels pointing where you want to go.

I remember astonishing a landrover driver who had struggled to get to a site, whenI turned up in a rover 214!

4wd really comes into its own when you have to start off on poor ground or climb and descend slopes.

The big advantage of the 2wd yeti for me over standard vehicles is the higher ground clearance to get through the rutted areas, and not have to try and drive with one wheel on a higher area to increase the clearance.

Edited 21 October, 201015 yr by kenfowler3966

My Octy Scout, whose performance I have praised so highly, came equipped with Dunlops. Fair bit of road noise from them in everyday use, however.

Same here - Dunlop sport 01's on mine and for muddy/wet work they seem pretty good tbh.

Narturally, skill, knowledge and familiarity with driving in difficult conditions will go a long way. Add 4WD and decent tyres and you will go even further.

Ken from Leeds

100% correct and more coherently expressed than I could manage.

Though I suspect your second last paragraph was intended to start with a 4

Cheers

M

Edited 21 October, 201015 yr by dieseldogg

Personally I'd rather have something underfoot with a least a vestige of grip on a ploughed field. The P Zero Rossos on mine were completely useless in the snow / mud, hence the reason for getting set up with a set of Wintracs for winter. The Pirellis are OK for nice dry roads / trackes, but they don't get far once the white stuff is down.

So what you do about the impossible question is to see what tyres it comes with - which could be Dunlops / Goodyears or Pirellis - and then having tried it, think on what NEEDS to be changed. You might be OK.

Smick

A friend in Kenya said always drive into the unknown with 2 wheel drive so that when you get stuck a 4x4 can get you out! Having nearly lost her Subaru in Lake Baringo I can testify to this! Hence I have the 2x4 Yeti and my wife the 4x4 RAV4

So far, I've not found the absolute limit of adhesion in my 4x4 running on the standard Pirelli P Zero Rossos - at least not on slippery fields and tracks, though I have not yet subjected them to snow conditions. However I do have experience of off-road driving in the Yeti and other 4x4's.

The basic premise is that it doesn't matter how good the tyre is, once the channels/grooves between the blocks of the tread become filled with compacted material (whether that be mud or snow - or even water - think of acquaplaning) then the tyre loses the ability to bite into whatever you are driving on, and effectively becomes a slick tyre. Then it will fail to grip.

The point at which you lose adhesion depends on various factors including.

1. The density of the material being driven over (eg Clay, Soil, Soft Sand, Hard Sand etc)

2. The depth of the material, (can your tyres penetrate the soft surface & find a solid surface underneath? Or is it so deep that you sink?)

3. How wet is the material (water reduces friction - wet mud is more slippery than dry mud)

4. How deep is the tread on your tyres? (Less tread depth = less bite)

5. The speed you are travelling, (faster isn't necessarily better - you are more likely to lose control or bottom out. Slow & steady is usually best.)

6. The distance you are trying to cover (crossing a 6m wide piece of mud may be ok, 400m may not)

7. The gradient of the ground. (400m of level mud may be ok, 50m of mud + hill may not)

8. The weight of the vehicle and its load, including of passengers & anything being towed. (a moderately laden car may have an advantage over an empty one. A fully laden car may be far worse.

9. The temperature of the surface (A field of frozen mud may be passable, the same field when unfrozen may not).

10. Tyre pressures –We’re getting serious now. An underinflated tyre may grip better, but you risk damaging the sidewall of the tyre if you go drop pressures too far. Leave your tyres at standard pressures because you must return them to the correct pressure to drive home again; it will be very messy if you now have muddy wheels/tyres!

The above list is not exhaustive and is a bit of an over simplification, but you should by now have the idea that there are lots of factors that determine grip.

Obviously the tread of a worn tyre will fill up much more quickly than a new one because it’s not as deep. If the ground has a glutinous heavy clay type structure, then it will fill the tread very quickly, as the clay will be more likely to stick to the tyre.

As has been said previously, with experience you will develop an understanding of which terrain your car will be able to cope with, often just by a quick scan of the route to be driven. On a heavily rutted track, you may be able to straddle the ruts, rather than risk grounding or getting bogged down if you drive in the ruts created by other vehicles.

Don't forget that winter tyres and off-road tyres are not the same thing. Each is designed to work under different conditions. There is another post on here somewhere explaining the differet tread charactaristics, but I cant find it at the moment!

Finally, as has also been mentioned, whilst different makes of standard-fit tyres for the Yeti may display very similar characteristics on normal dry roads, they could offer very different performance off road or in snow. Unless someone can give us back to back tyre comparisons of the different tyres both on & off-road, it's difficult to advise how your particular vehicle will perform.

Winter tyres or purpose designed off-road tyres will undoubtedly perform far better than the standard ones in mud or snow, but the pay-off is increased noise, poorer on-road handling and probably worse fuel consumption. Because the winter tyres will almost certainly have a softer rubber compound, they will also have a shorter life than the standard tyres and should not be used all year round. Oh, and there is the storage & cost of a second set of wheels & tyres of course.

Hope this helps! Let us know how you go on.

Edited 23 October, 201015 yr by speedsport

Speedsport

A good post and seems to cover all the points. The only thing I would add is much also depends on the driver's experience and ability.

Another point I would make is that if you are not sure then it is advisable to walk the route before attempting to drive it And know your own limitations.

Speedsport

A good post and seems to cover all the points. The only thing I would add is much also depends on the driver's experience and ability.

Another point I would make is that if you are not sure then it is advisable to walk the route before attempting to drive it And know your own limitations.

Absolutely correct on both points!

Edited 23 October, 201015 yr by speedsport