...getting twitchy...to buy or not to buy...Winter Tyres

[harveys]

I know nobody can say for sure...but I am wondering whether to now consider a set of winter tyres for my petrol vrs. I recently bought a pair of Autosocks, but now my work location is changing (soon !) my commute is going from a 12 mile round trip on main/trunk roads, to potentially a 25 mle round trip on back/single track roads or even more if I come into town & head back out !

I don't fancy running 'steelies' although I see it is quite favoured on here. We used 'winters' on the front of my wife's Bora V5 for years (successfully - but I now appreciate 4 & not just 2 is a must !)

Anyway, started pricing them locally today & for 225/40R18's I am looking at upwards of £600 fitted ! Then I've to find somewhere to store 4 tyres & whatever it costs to refit them in say April/May next year. I do appreciate I'll be rotating two sets, so it's just more capital tied up in tyres & not really extra expense.

The other (more expensive!) option is I chop in my Vrs for a Scout (which I'd fancied doing anyway), but having heard the horror stories re waiting times, it sounds like that option is not going to work for this winter!

The final choice is to go for a different brands 4x4 - either car or true jeep style...something else I'd considered previously.

Oh - so many decisions, so little time...and all my own making for not planning sooner...problem is, the Vrs has never run or looked better...

[Gizmo]

I know nobody can say for sure...but I am wondering whether to now consider a set of winter tyres for my petrol vrs.

Not very helpful I know but NOW is NOT the right time, a couple of months ago was the 'right time' as they have now gone up quite a bit in price (supply and demand).

More useful info is that most people actually use 16" winter wheels/tyres as there is much more choice and more importantly they are much cheaper (4x 205/55/16" from £300).

[dan yeates]

I know nobody can say for sure...but I am wondering whether to now consider a set of winter tyres for my petrol vrs. I recently bought a pair of Autosocks, but now my work location is changing (soon !) my commute is going from a 12 mile round trip on main/trunk roads, to potentially a 25 mle round trip on back/single track roads or even more if I come into town & head back out !

I don't fancy running 'steelies' although I see it is quite favoured on here. We used 'winters' on the front of my wife's Bora V5 for years (successfully - but I now appreciate 4 & not just 2 is a must !)

Anyway, started pricing them locally today & for 225/40R18's I am looking at upwards of £600 fitted ! Then I've to find somewhere to store 4 tyres & whatever it costs to refit them in say April/May next year. I do appreciate I'll be rotating two sets, so it's just more capital tied up in tyres & not really extra expense.

The other (more expensive!) option is I chop in my Vrs for a Scout (which I'd fancied doing anyway), but having heard the horror stories re waiting times, it sounds like that option is not going to work for this winter!

The final choice is to go for a different brands 4x4 - either car or true jeep style...something else I'd considered previously.

Oh - so many decisions, so little time...and all my own making for not planning sooner...problem is, the Vrs has never run or looked better...

I'm not sure either. I've never had winter tyres before, but my last couple of cars (Audi S4's) have been 4 wheels drive with ESP and traction control etc. so have been pretty planted in the snow really. Living on the south coast we hardly ever get any snow and it melts within a few hours if it ever does snow. Last winter we had an MR2 and the S4 and my girlfriend wanted to drive her MR2 to work instead of me driving us in the Audi. Turns out they don't salt the little road from our house that joins the main road. She got half way up and then bounced back down along the kerb! We promptly got in the Audi and cruised up without any issues at all!

Sorry, can't help much!! I don't think I'll bother though.

[sausage roll]

Get some cheaper, smaller, thinner wheels i.e. 16's for the winter. WInter tyres work out much cheaper for the 16's and if they are thinner will get better traction.

ChrisRS has just done that on here somewhere. Think he got some 16" audi oem wheels off of ebay.

On my fabia I personally run standard 17" octy vrs spiders in summer with falken rubber and then 16" standard fabia vrs aloys in winter with dunlop sp winter sport 3d's.

edit: Chris's Post

Edited 10 November, 2010 by Mr S. Roll

[L&Ken]

The advantage of running smaller diameter steelies (or if you must go with alloys, go for 16" 5 x 112 PCD, such as post '04 Audi will fit the vRS ) is that you can save considerably on the cost of the tyres - price up 205/55 R16s in comparison to the 225/40 R18s. Also by running a second set of rims, you will save roughly £100 per year in fitting/balancing/valve charges.

If you buy non OEM alloys, then some insurance companies will view this as a modification and load your premiums, or void your insurance if you don't inform them. By using steel rims instead, reasonable insurers will not see this as a modification which adds to the value of the car or increases risk of a claim.

Besides, it's now nearly mid November, you'd be putting the normal 18 alloy wheels back on around the end of march, it's only 4 months, and four months where there's more salt, grit and mess on the roads to do damage to your alloys.

[gadgetman]

If you buy non OEM alloys, then some insurance companies will view this as a modification and load your premiums, or void your insurance if you don't inform them. By using steel rims instead, reasonable insurers will not see this as a modification which adds to the value of the car or increases risk of a claim.

Some firms it's the issue with using winter tyres rather than the rims. Cant remember who it was that had that issue with insurer last year.

Also if you are to run winter tyres, just putting them on the front isnt safe and could help you spin.

[jrw]

If you got for a rotating set like i and a lot of people have then you have the added advantage of making your expensive 18 inch tyres last twice as long! The way i look at it is £130 for an 18 vs £80 for a 16inch Winter tyre. Coupled with the added advantage of having grip in bad weather its a no brainer. With the cheaper tyres on 4-6months of the year the money i will save over the next couple of years will pay for the Rims that they are on. Then at the end of the day i still have collateral in them when i want to sell them.

I was lucky at got a set of 16inch Skoda Alloy's with Avon Ice touring tyres on nearly new for £350

[L&Ken]

Some firms it's the issue with using winter tyres rather than the rims. Cant remember who it was that had that issue with insurer last year.

Also if you are to run winter tyres, just putting them on the front isnt safe and could help you spin.

I agree on both points. That's why I put 'reasonable insurers'. Any insurer that thinks that putting on steel wheels with winter tyres will increase your risk is not reasonable in my book.

The point I ws trying to make is that sticking a set of compatible Audi, VW or Seat Alloys on your Skoda might be seen as a "modification" like Halfords Aftermarket Alloys by insurers (regardless of tyres on these rims) who would otherwise be content if you used steel wheels. I asked the specific question to my own insurer (Aviva) about using steel rims with winter tyres and they were happy because steels do not increase the value or risk. (and using winter tyres arguably decreases risk of a claim). They did mention lower speed ratings, but even T rated tyres are rated for 118mph.

Given that many insurers will attempt to wiggle out of a claim, it would be very distressing to discover that your insurer voided an otherwise legitimate claim because they discovered you had Audi/VWalloys on a Skoda without informing them.

[AnotherGareth]

I don't fancy running 'steelies' although I see it is quite favoured on here.

There are a few reasons for using smaller narrower steel wheels and some of them have been covered here -- cost of wheel, cost of tyre, insurance -- but an equally valid reason is that if you kerb the wheels there is a much higher chance that they can be bent back since steel wheels tend to bend rather than crack, unlike many/most alloys.

If you want to know sizes of wheels and tyres, I posted a list (#7) taken from a Skoda wheels brochure yesterday in this forum.

Edited 11 November, 2010 by AnotherGareth

[ChrisRs]

Get some Alloys from eBay and go to Camskill for the rubber..Simples!!

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/178589-winter-alloys-and-tyres-fitted/page__p__2149080__fromsearch__1entry2149080

[AnotherGareth]

mytyres prices for steel wheels (6Jx16, 5x112 PCD, 57mm centre bore, ET50) with winter tyres (205/55 R16 91H) start at £88 each, although the cheapest I'd consider are Hankook Icept W310 at £107.80 plus £9.90 carriage for each. Others I'd be interested in include Kumho KW23 at £111.50 each, Nokian WR G2 at £117.30 each, and Vredestein Snowtrac 3 at £130.30 each.

[sgreen]

mytyres prices for steel wheels (6Jx16, 5x112 PCD, 57mm centre bore, ET50) with winter tyres (205/55 R16 91H) start at £88 each, although the cheapest I'd consider are Hankook Icept W310 at £107.80 plus £9.90 carriage for each. Others I'd be interested in include Kumho KW23 at £111.50 each, Nokian WR G2 at £117.30 each, and Vredestein Snowtrac 3 at £130.30 each.

I have just put some Hankook Icebear W300's 225/40/18 92V on the front of my new vRS, £115 fitted and they have a similar tread pattern to the Conti's, so look spot on. The tyre palce will charge me £7.50 to put my summer tyres back on as well. Seems to handle exactly the same.

I spoke the tyre centre and they just said put them on the fronts, for the amount of snow we get, they will be fine. If I was living in Norway then I would buy 4, but I dont so 2 it is.

[AnotherGareth]

I spoke the tyre centre and they just said put them on the fronts, for the amount of snow we get, they will be fine.

Imagine braking on a downhill bend on ice. What do you think might happen?

[pist0nbr0ke]

Imagine braking on a downhill bend on ice. What do you think might happen?

Realistically, if it's that slippery, surely the fronts will go anyway? Do snow/winter tyres really make that much difference? I understand they give vastly superior traction in snow, hence the need for them on driven wheels, but it's not like they're studded for grip on ice? Also, if I was aware of the possibility of ice, snow tyres or no snow tyres, I wouldn't drive fast enough to require much braking, let alone braking on a bend-I have always been taught to brake before a bend, and maintain/increase speed through it?? I really don't think that just because I had snow/winter tyres on that I would continue to drive at my normal speed. Never mind the fact that all the other traffic will be crawling anyway.....

[AnotherGareth]

In my experience winter tyres really do make that much difference on ice. Last year my more experienced friends reckoned that it gave a 20-30 mph advantage over cars without winter tyres -- I reckoned it was certainly over 20 mph advantage. On ice covered roads it was almost like normal driving, so good it was easy to believe I was a driving god! Of course I'm not, but I was very surprised by the level of grip on surfaces that I couldn't easily walk on.

Edited 11 November, 2010 by AnotherGareth

[harveys]

I have just put some Hankook Icebear W300's 225/40/18 92V on the front of my new vRS, £115 fitted and they have a similar tread pattern to the Conti's, so look spot on. The tyre palce will charge me £7.50 to put my summer tyres back on as well. Seems to handle exactly the same.

I spoke the tyre centre and they just said put them on the fronts, for the amount of snow we get, they will be fine. If I was living in Norway then I would buy 4, but I dont so 2 it is.

Where did you get those Hancooks for £115 fitted? I am still looking around...really don't fancy the steelies route, the more I think about it. Can understand it's the 'sensible' choice from a cost point of view. The Hancooks are one option I came across, but couldn't get them that cheaply !

Considering fiting them to the wifes can too...but I'll have to dig deep for that !

[AnotherGareth]

Hancooks are one option I came across, but couldn't get them that cheaply

Available for £99.50 each from Camskill. Add another £9.96 for carriage for four, total is £407.96 -- and fitting locally should be in the region of £15 a tyre.

[pad953]

Realistically, if it's that slippery, surely the fronts will go anyway? Do snow/winter tyres really make that much difference? I understand they give vastly superior traction in snow, hence the need for them on driven wheels, but it's not like they're studded for grip on ice? Also, if I was aware of the possibility of ice, snow tyres or no snow tyres, I wouldn't drive fast enough to require much braking, let alone braking on a bend-I have always been taught to brake before a bend, and maintain/increase speed through it?? I really don't think that just because I had snow/winter tyres on that I would continue to drive at my normal speed. Never mind the fact that all the other traffic will be crawling anyway.....

I was of the same thinking as you, then I watched this

Even at 10mph, I reckon you could easily swap ends under braking.

[MarkSk0da]

Just a few thoughts, I know nothing about Skoda specifics of driving in snow/what wheel/spikes/tyres etc combos are possible, but...

how about some of these? - http://www.autosock.co.uk/ or do you get a lot of snow, in which case wouldn't chains be cheaper than winter tyres (assuming they will fit/not damage your wheels)

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/151680-snow-chains/

or http://www.spikes-spiders.com/ - expensive but they won't wear out like tyres will!

or are you just after something with more grip in low temps and with potential ice...

in which case try one of these for well-price online main brand tyres:

http://www.tyretraders.com/

http://www.blackcircles.com/

[TsvRS]

I was of the same thinking as you, then I watched this

Even at 10mph, I reckon you could easily swap ends under braking.

Next time I drive to Canada I know how many winter tyres I will be putting on . . .

That is pretty conclusive isnt it? I do hope we don't get a winter like that though, think I would rather see my winter wheels unused than go through that again.

[Niall]

Time to set the record straight......

Winter tyres are not just for snow!!!

Someone once said to me when I was a student shoeing my old BX in the cheapest rubber I could find "The cheapest perfomance upgrade you can make to a car is good tyres"

Most people on here advocate spending that little bit more and getting a quality "summer" tyre for improved roadholding, braking, wear, etc over cheaper options.

So why would you want to sacrifice the ability to keep the car safer all winter long by not fitting winter tyres?

I had mine fitted last Friday and have been driving on them every day this week. Lowish temperatures, lots of rain, wet roads and not a snowflake in sight (apart from the tops of the hills).

As someone who drives for work (meeting clients) as well as to work, I am already, frankly embarassed that it has taken me this long to get round to it. Winter Tyres offer a whole package of improvements to your vehicle in winter months, not just the simple matter of improved traction to get going in a blizzard!!

Compared to "summer" tyres they will grip better throughout the winter once the temp is below 7 deg C - full stop - snow not included. That means safer braking and safer roadholding in normal driving irrespective of whether it is snowing or not. Better able to avoid an accident - whats that worth to you and any occupants? This last week has been quite a revelation and I can only suggest that if you can afford it, get some and see for yourself.

Buy Winter tyres and you will not need a 4x4 "just in case it snows" in the UK - you'll only need 4x4 and winter tyres to navigate in exceptional conditions - at which point unless you're trying to get someone to hospital, should you be out anyway? I have 4x4 cos I stray off tarmac relatively frequently.

To the OP, spending £600 on winter tyres (even if you don't go down the cheaper steelies route) has to be cheaper than chopping it in for something else? And to be fair buying a 4x4 and then running it on "summer tyres" is slightly self defeating if the main reason is to improve winter driving safety......

Also to all those who say "I've always managed fine with normal tyres" - we used to "manage" getting around on foot and horses!

Last year on summer tyres my Scout never got stuck once in terms of traction (getting going) which is what everyone seems to be focussing on when they suggest chains or autosocks as a cheaper equivalent. (It's a cheaper option not an equivalent). The best example I can think off as to the limitations is that in late March the good lady had to head to work in heavy snow. The Nursery was cancelled so I worked from home with the wee one and she took the Scout. Came round a slightly cambered corner at 5mph to find a Transit nose in to the apex across both carriageways. On braking the car locked up, stopped before the van and slowly and gracefully slid with the camber of the road into the verge. If the verge hadn't been covered in deep snow the bodywork would have been damaged. This situation would be far. far less likely to happen with winter tyres.

A dog isn't just for Christmas.

Winter tyres aren't just for getting going in snow. They are for better braking and roadholding throughout.

[/Lecture over]

Niall

[Reds]

That video has done it for me. Four winter tyres on steel wheels ordered.

Like you, I do a lot of miles in all weathers - a new set of tyres will last me at least two winters, I'll be safer, can get out to on days I'd otherwise be stuck inm and can keep my summer tyres unsued in the garage.

Should have done this years ago.

[MarkSk0da]

Agreed that winter tyres are a good idea, can't find the site, but some good links here:

http://www.etyres.co.uk/bad-weather-tyres

http://www.nationwideautocentres.co.uk/Landing-Page---Miscellaneous/wintertyres/

http://www.kwik-fit.com/why-fit-winter-tyres.asp

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/stillatthewheel/archive/2010/01/13/just-how-good-are-winter-tyres.aspx

[Jcb.]

I know this is taking things to an extreme, but this video illustrates the point rather well. After watching the summer tyres on the cornering test at the end, it's almost unbelievable just how much grip the winter tyres can have on sheet ice.

EDIT: Forgot to add link!

Edited 12 November, 2010 by Jcb.

[harveys]

I had all but decided to stick winter tyres on my car at least. However I mistakenly got quotes for V rated 18's rather than the Y's that are on the car (schoolboy error - the wifes car has the 92V's!)

I've now asked my local fitter to quote me for the Y's, so we'll see what comes back. I could get the Hancook Ice Bear W300's for £124 fitted (but in the V rating !) It's going to cost me £10 a corner to get the summers put back on. I am happy to pay that, in order to keep the original look of the car (I guess we all have our own personal preferences) They did offer to store my tyres FOC, but as I've just bought some bags off Amazon, I think I'll just chuck them in my garage.

It's been interesting to read this thread & the others on here re Winter tyres...it's difficult to know what the real truth is regarding what is acceptable from an insurance company point of view on the speed rating debate. I'd be looking for confirmation in writing that a lower rating would be ok. I am with Aviva.

The one things that isn't open to debate, is that I should fit winters asap (if I can still get them !)