Advice needed - Octavia VRS Delivery

[daz3031]

I ordered an Octavia VRS TDi in September and stated at the time of order that I did not want the car registered until 2011 regardless of when it arrived. The dealer agreed to this as he said as long as I ordered before the end of September, the price was fixed regardless of delivery. Today they emailed to say that as my car arrived in the UK on Monday 13th, it must be registered this year as the cut off Skoda states is 14th Dec. After a meeting with the manager they agreed to give me £200 off the purchase price which I am not happy with as they are changing the terms of the deal. I understand it is Skoda enforcing this but they should not have agreed at the time I made the deal or informed me of this restriction.

I had a look on Parkers at the difference in trade-in value between a 2008 and 2009 registered 58 plate and it is over £1000.

Any advice as to what I should do? I'm currently thinking about cancelling my order. The money isn't the thing annoying me most, it's the fact they are changing a deal we agreed on.

Thanks.

[Moley RUFC]

Without the deal you agreed with the salesman in writing I would expect the worst

[pluves1]

Seems like a rabbit off here somewhere. Why would Skoda insist a dealer register a car by a certain date? Sounds like the dealer was trying to hit a target and needed to register by the 14th for whatever reason.

As we're now past the 14th presumably the dealer has registered it? If they have might they have made an error they are not admitting to?

[PowerMalc]

Your 'deal' agreed when you ordered the car can not takr into account the rates of taxation which can change at anytime, what if VAT went up to 25% yesterday? Almost certainly there will be disclaimer on the dealers order form about VAT being outside any agreement.

In terms of the dates you quote, -- the same thing happened last year when VAT went from 15% back upto 17.5%.

I was in a similar situation a year ago with my new VRS. The dealers had had a memo fro SUK giving them various options on how to handle the extra 2.5% VAT due, exactly the same date (14th Dec) was the cutoff point.

The car arrives before this and SUK are expecting you to take delivery this year otherwise I would have to pay the extra VAT

What I do not understand is why SUK are saying when it should be registered, one big difference in this year's VAT increase is the date - last year it was 1st Jan 2010 this year it is 4th Jan. I would be insisting it be registered on 1st Jan 2011 and therefore you, the dealer or SUK will not be having to stump up the VAT.

Now its another story if the dealer is trying to pull a fast one to get it registered this year to increase there quarterly bonus.

I looked at 'plus'of getting a Dec 2009(59) versus a Jan 2010(59) and it came at an advantage of approx £400 at the 3 years old mark

[kevberlin]

I ordered an Octavia VRS TDi in September and stated at the time of order that I did not want the car registered until 2011 regardless of when it arrived. The dealer agreed to this as he said as long as I ordered before the end of September, the price was fixed regardless of delivery. Today they emailed to say that as my car arrived in the UK on Monday 13th, it must be registered this year as the cut off Skoda states is 14th Dec. After a meeting with the manager they agreed to give me £200 off the purchase price which I am not happy with as they are changing the terms of the deal. I understand it is Skoda enforcing this but they should not have agreed at the time I made the deal or informed me of this restriction.

I had a look on Parkers at the difference in trade-in value between a 2008 and 2009 registered 58 plate and it is over £1000.

Any advice as to what I should do? I'm currently thinking about cancelling my order. The money isn't the thing annoying me most, it's the fact they are changing a deal we agreed on.

Thanks.

I have had the same issue but got a written agreement to register in January 2011. Otherwise I would have cancelled my order out of principle. There are previous threads on this. There is no legal constraint about registration concerning 14th of the month. Its a Skoda thing.

VAT issues are a complete red herring with regard to this subject. Skoda have to pay VAT at whatever rate. They can't opt out of it! The deal offered by Skoda upto the end of the year is simply a discount on the car that EQUATES TO THE PREVAILING VAT RATE.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Edited 16 December, 2010 by kevberlin

[daz3031]

The car definitely can't be registered as I believe they need my V5, insurance and tax disc as I am transferring my number plate onto it at first registration. The car has not even arrived at the dealer as it only arrived in the UK on Monday. They say they would register it in January if they could but Skoda won't allow it, and they have met all targets etc already.

[andyvee]

Why not contact Skoda UK and ask them why they are instructing the dealer to go against the deal you had agreed?

Also, did you get the dealer to write on your order form that it isn't to be registered until 2011? If so, that forms part of the contract so they can't change it.

AFAIK they can't register and tax the car without you providing them with an insurance certificate, so don't give them any insurance details until 4th Jan.

[daz3031]

Your 'deal' agreed when you ordered the car can not takr into account the rates of taxation which can change at anytime, what if VAT went up to 25% yesterday? Almost certainly there will be disclaimer on the dealers order form about VAT being outside any agreement.

In terms of the dates you quote, -- the same thing happened last year when VAT went from 15% back upto 17.5%.

I was in a similar situation a year ago with my new VRS. The dealers had had a memo fro SUK giving them various options on how to handle the extra 2.5% VAT due, exactly the same date (14th Dec) was the cutoff point.

The car arrives before this and SUK are expecting you to take delivery this year otherwise I would have to pay the extra VAT

What I do not understand is why SUK are saying when it should be registered, one big difference in this year's VAT increase is the date - last year it was 1st Jan 2010 this year it is 4th Jan. I would be insisting it be registered on 1st Jan 2011 and therefore you, the dealer or SUK will not be having to stump up the VAT.

Now its another story if the dealer is trying to pull a fast one to get it registered this year to increase there quarterly bonus.

I looked at 'plus'of getting a Dec 2009(59) versus a Jan 2010(59) and it came at an advantage of approx £400 at the 3 years old mark

I am more than happy for it to be registered between the 1st and 3rd January prior to the VAT increase or even pay the balance this year but neither option seems acceptable to them. The thing that really confuses me is I could order a new one today which won't be delivered for 6 months and yet they will still honour the 17.5% VAT rate but not on my one because it arrived in the UK one day early!

[daz3031]

Why not contact Skoda UK and ask them why they are instructing the dealer to go against the deal you had agreed?

Also, did you get the dealer to write on your order form that it isn't to be registered until 2011? If so, that forms part of the contract so they can't change it.

AFAIK they can't register and tax the car without you providing them with an insurance certificate, so don't give them any insurance details until 4th Jan.

Unfortunately I didn't receive an order form at the time of order as their system was down so only have my credit card receipt. I trusted the garage as this is the third car I have purchased from them in under 4 years, a total of over £50,000! So much for a valued customer..........

[daz3031]

Right........i've had a look at the HMRC website regarding the VAT increase and I can not see any reason why I cannot get my car registered for 1st-3rd Jan and collect then?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rate-rise-guidance.pdf

The dealers argument is they do not receive any additional financial support from Skoda for the VAT increase if it's not registered this year so will have to pay 2.5% more, however there will not be any additional VAT as long as I am invoiced before the 4th Jan.

Any flaws in my argument?

Thanks!

[PowerMalc]

I am more than happy for it to be registered between the 1st and 3rd January prior to the VAT increase or even pay the balance this year but neither option seems acceptable to them. The thing that really confuses me is I could order a new one today which won't be delivered for 6 months and yet they will still honour the 17.5% VAT rate but not on my one because it arrived in the UK one day early!

I can see your frustration. Why will they not register it and you pay for it as you suggest?

I would check they are not looking at last years memo, this stated if the car arrived in the UK before 14th Dec and the customer would not take delivery until after 1st Jan the customer would have to pay the extra VAT.

If the car arrived after 14th Dec the customer had the option of taking delivery immediately or delaying until January but could still the customers choice

In my case it arrived just before Christmas so registered in 2010 and SUK paid the extra VAT.

*Was your stipulation that it be registered in 2011 on the order form*

Edit, just seen your earlier post

Edited 16 December, 2010 by PowerMalc

[kevberlin]

Right........i've had a look at the HMRC website regarding the VAT increase and I can not see any reason why I cannot get my car registered for 1st-3rd Jan and collect then?

http://www.hmrc.gov....se-guidance.pdf

The dealers argument is they do not receive any additional financial support from Skoda for the VAT increase if it's not registered this year so will have to pay 2.5% more, however there will not be any additional VAT as long as I am invoiced before the 4th Jan.

Any flaws in my argument?

Thanks!

Have looked at his myself and agree with both issues you raise (ie: Registration rules and VAT increase).

Kev

[daz3031]

Have looked at his myself and agree with both issues you raise (ie: Registration rules and VAT increase).

Kev

Thanks Kev. At least I know my logic makes sense to more than just me! Will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

[auditek]

Thanks Kev. At least I know my logic makes sense to more than just me! Will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

Don't panic about VAT..I've ordered an audi TT, and on the TT forums, peeps have had the same probs regarding the VAT increase..anyway, I checked the HMRC website, armed myself with the info, and low and behold I got a copy of this..why don't the dealers tell you, instead of us having to all the work !!!!!

Sent: 06 October 2010 10:29

To: Heads Of Business; Sales Managers

Cc: Accountants; Audi Sales Admin; Centre Admin Supervisors

Subject: VAT Increase to 20%

Importance: High

With effect from the 4th January 2011 the standard rate of VAT increases from 17.5% to 20%

There are an increased number of customers that have asked if they can pay for their vehicles prior to the 4th January 2011 to secure the lower VAT rate even though we will not be registering and or delivering their new vehicle until after the 4th January 2011.

HMRC have confirmed that we are able to do this however to ensure we don't incur a 2.5% anti forestalling charge then the following must be strictly applied.

1. The VAT inclusive price of the goods must fall below £80,000 - in the case of fleet orders received then this is a group threshold not an individual centre limit i.e. Greggs could order and pay for 4 vehicles at £20k at one centre only i.e. not 4 at each centre equating to 16 vehicles across the group.

2. This arrangement excludes all finance and leasing company deals

3. This arrangement excludes supplies to any connected parties of the business (i.e staff and relatives of employees).

4. This arrangement only applies to vehicles that are deliverable by no later than the 31st May 2011 - if you are in any doubt as a result of accuracy of build dates then do not offer this facility to your customer as they will incur a 2.5% supplementary charge. All customers looking to avail of this should have the potential additional 2.5% charge fully explained to them in full prior to making any payments. In due course I will communicate an amendment to our standard terms and conditions for the customer to sign that will state that they will be liable for the additional 2.5% charge if all our terms and conditions are not met.

To qualify:

1. The customer must pay for the vehicle in full via bank transfer prior to close of business on Thursday 30th December 2010 - we will not accept any other method of payment due to the audit trail that HMRC will require. As part of the bank transfer the customer must quote registration details as a reference if known or their name and vehicle model.

2. In the case of a new vehicle and dependent upon its current status it is imperative that the sales price is agreed and signed off as correct by sales manager and or dealership accountant prior to advising the customer of the balance to pay. Again to re-iterate to qualify it must be the full outstanding payment that is taken.

3. The customer must sign a disclaimer stating that they will be liable for the additional 2.5% charge if all of our terms and conditions are not complied with and or do not pass HMRC scrutiny prior to making payment.

3. Once cleared funds have been confirmed an invoice with a tax point date of December 2010 will be generated via sales ledger not VSB and issued to the customer at a VAT rate of 17.5% - this sales invoice will be held on the balance sheet and deferred until point of registration.

4. On the provision that the vehicle is deliverable prior to the end of May the vehicle will be registered and invoiced in 2011.

5. At point of registration the vehicle will be invoiced via VSB at the old rate of VAT which by this time will be 17.5%.

Should you have any customers wishing to pursue this avenue then your first point of contact should be your dealership accountant. From an audit trail perspective any customers that do proceed on this basis then it is the centres responsibility to ensure that the sales transaction file contains the full audit trail to satisfy HMRC's requirements. If any gaps in the audit trail are identified then the centre will be charged a 2.5% supplementary charge pending HMRC approval

[daz3031]

I had a reply from the dealer regarding my idea:

"Thank you for trying to find a solution but your proposal means that the car will still be registered outwith the cut off date which is 31st December meaning that the campaign money will not be paid at the current level.

The invoicing aspect is irrelevant to the transaction.

I am not trying to be difficult or obstructive I am simply carrying out the instructions of Skoda UK who dictate all bonus payments made to me as a franchise holder.

These circumstances were not in place when you ordered your new car or we wouldn’t be asking for you to take it this year."

So basically they aren't willing to help me at all as they are worried about their bonus!

[kevberlin]

I had a reply from the dealer regarding my idea:

"Thank you for trying to find a solution but your proposal means that the car will still be registered outwith the cut off date which is 31st December meaning that the campaign money will not be paid at the current level.

The invoicing aspect is irrelevant to the transaction.

I am not trying to be difficult or obstructive I am simply carrying out the instructions of Skoda UK who dictate all bonus payments made to me as a franchise holder.

These circumstances were not in place when you ordered your new car or we wouldn’t be asking for you to take it this year."

So basically they aren't willing to help me at all as they are worried about their bonus!

Sympathise with you on this. This is very frustrating and would make me, as a customer, feel very undervalued by Skoda. To be honest, I don't know what I would do in these circumstances. Good luck.

[daz3031]

Sympathise with you on this. This is very frustrating and would make me, as a customer, feel very undervalued by Skoda. To be honest, I don't know what I would do in these circumstances. Good luck.

I have emailed consumer advice at Autoexpress seeking advice and also copied the CEO of Skoda UK in on the email. I find it amazing that my family have bought 5 Skodas in recent years and I personally have spent over £50k with the dealership in 3 years, yet get treated like this.

[kevberlin]

I have emailed consumer advice at Autoexpress seeking advice and also copied the CEO of Skoda UK in on the email. I find it amazing that my family have bought 5 Skodas in recent years and I personally have spent over £50k with the dealership in 3 years, yet get treated like this.

Honest John in the online Telegraph also have a legal adviser that responds to individual enquiries.

[pluves1]

I had a reply from the dealer regarding my idea:

"Thank you for trying to find a solution but your proposal means that the car will still be registered outwith the cut off date which is 31st December meaning that the campaign money will not be paid at the current level.

The invoicing aspect is irrelevant to the transaction.

I am not trying to be difficult or obstructive I am simply carrying out the instructions of Skoda UK who dictate all bonus payments made to me as a franchise holder.

These circumstances were not in place when you ordered your new car or we wouldn’t be asking for you to take it this year."

So basically they aren't willing to help me at all as they are worried about their bonus!

So basically the dealer was hitting a bonus target and therefore refuses to delay registration. Isn't that a bit different to what they advised first? To blame Skoda UK is a bit rich. The dealer could delay registration - the only problem would be they would miss their bonus payment?

[Paul007]

Unless there's a financial penalty to you, I'd tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[kevberlin]

So basically the dealer was hitting a bonus target and therefore refuses to delay registration. Isn't that a bit different to what they advised first? To blame Skoda UK is a bit rich. The dealer could delay registration - the only problem would be they would miss their bonus payment?

I gather that the dealers are penalised by Skoda if they change the conditions of a sale. Effectively what is said by pluves1 above.

[mannyo]

Why worry about it, just take delivery now. The parkers price guide assumes a september registration when comparing 2008-2009 prices, the fact its a December registration will lessen the difference dramatically. Parkers prices are also way off the mark anyway, since dealers do not use their price guide but use trade guides such as Glasses. The car will still be a 60 plate regardless of if its registered in 2010 or early 2011.

[pluves1]

Unfortunately I didn't receive an order form at the time of order as their system was down so only have my credit card receipt. I trusted the garage as this is the third car I have purchased from them in under 4 years, a total of over £50,000! So much for a valued customer..........

Did you sign an order form? If not you could probably walk away and insist on your deposit back (ring your credit card company first to check you can do this). However, bear in mind that the dealer will probably have no issues selling your car on as the TDi's are now looking like June delivery if you order now to beat the VAT increase and also Skoda's VAT free deal. I recall seeing on another thread that the VAT free deal is likely to end for diesel version at the end of December but, continue for petrol in 2011 - how true that is I don't know.

Why don't you ask the dealer what financial benefit he is getting? And then ask for some of this back as a gesture of goodwill?

[Stevoraith]

To be honest I don't see what the big problem is. You're getting £200 off- I hardly think a car registered 4 or 5 days before another identical one is going to be worth hundreds of pounds difference, regardless of if it says 2010 or 2011 on the V5. It's still a 60 plate.

My dealer also mentioned the other day how Skoda are now insisting that cars are registered within 10 working days of arriving at the dealers. If they don't do that they won't recieve the VAT rebate.

I guess this is to stop buyers getting a car at the discount and then waiting a long period of time before registering it on a newer plate. It's possible even that dealers could buy cars for stock at the reduced rate and sell them on at the higher rate if they haven't registered them.

Why don't you ask the dealer what financial benefit he is getting? And then ask for some of this back as a gesture of goodwill?

I don't think it's a case of the dealer getting a financial benefit. From what my dealer said and the way I read the response, the problem is that Skoda will not pay the VAT free contribution if it is not registered when they want it to be done.

If thats the case the dealer will be selling the car at a loss if they buy it at the 'normal' price and sell it at the VAT free price.

[pluves1]

To be honest I don't see what the big problem is. You're getting £200 off- I hardly think a car registered 4 or 5 days before another identical one is going to be worth hundreds of pounds difference, regardless of if it says 2010 or 2011 on the V5. It's still a 60 plate.

My dealer also mentioned the other day how Skoda are now insisting that cars are registered within 10 working days of arriving at the dealers. If they don't do that they won't recieve the VAT rebate.

I guess this is to stop buyers getting a car at the discount and then waiting a long period of time before registering it on a newer plate. It's possible even that dealers could buy cars for stock at the reduced rate and sell them on at the higher rate if they haven't registered them.

I don't think it's a case of the dealer getting a financial benefit. From what my dealer said and the way I read the response, the problem is that Skoda will not pay the VAT free contribution if it is not registered when they want it to be done.

If thats the case the dealer will be selling the car at a loss if they buy it at the 'normal' price and sell it at the VAT free price.

May I suggest that you read the whole thread? The dealer has confirmed this is nothing to do with VAT increase or VAT free deal.

I am not trying to be difficult or obstructive I am simply carrying out the instructions of Skoda UK who dictate all bonus payments made to me as a franchise holder.