Cold Start problems with a PD TDI 170

[silver1011]

That thought did cross my mind, access looks good and as far as I can tell the pipes at the top are simply clipped on.

Then I thought about how I'd stop the diesel from leaking everywhere and whether I'd need to prime the system after fitting?

See here for an update on the exhaust sensor:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/237798-dpf-light-on-no-town-driving-pd170-vrs/

[Davidsr20]

That thought did cross my mind, access looks good and as far as I can tell the pipes at the top are simply clipped on.

Then I thought about how I'd stop the diesel from leaking everywhere and whether I'd need to prime the system after fitting?

See here for an update on the exhaust sensor:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/237798-dpf-light-on-no-town-driving-pd170-vrs/

U won't need to prime it just fill the canaster with diesel,

As for the exhaust pressure sensor id be changing it anyway and I had no coil light on when mine went

[silver1011]

I think I'll give the sensor a last chance. If it dares light up again then it'll either be a new sensor or I'll be having the DPF removed completely as this car is a keeper.

I'll price up the fuel filter housing and filter to see how much of the £230 is labour, a good 50% I reckon!

[Davidsr20]

I think I'll give the sensor a last chance. If it dares light up again then it'll either be a new sensor or I'll be having the DPF removed completely as this car is a keeper.

I'll price up the fuel filter housing and filter to see how much of the £230 is labour, a good 50% I reckon!

It's hard to be leave ur filter housing is leaking on ur car, maybe it's just the seal, when was ur fuel filter last changed?

As for been a keeper no facelift Vrs for u then?

[max69vk]

Well this is my first post here & while I don't drive a skoda ( I have an Audi A3 tdi 170) I stumbled across this thread while researching some info on various issues I'm having with my car, one of which being difficult starting which has now been solved. If you want a read of all the issues & problems that have been solved take a look at the thread below, hopefully its of some help

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/155474-2-0-tdi-bnm-engine-sounding-rough-after-injector-swap.html

[silver1011]

Interesting (but unpleasant) reading there, your symptoms seem to be a lot worse than mine, it makes my concerns over poor cold starting pretty trivial!

Thanks for the link mate, I'll certainly be following your progress with interest.

You mentioned that the cold starting issue was resolved, was this after the cylinder head was replaced? If so I think I might try the fuel filter housing first then

[silver1011]

It's hard to be leave ur filter housing is leaking on ur car, maybe it's just the seal, when was ur fuel filter last changed?

As for been a keeper no facelift Vrs for u then?

As far as I am aware the fuel filter has never been replaced (bought at 33,000 miles with full Skoda history) as it's never been done whilst I've owned it (since October last year/12,000 miles).

The thread on the Audi forum from max69vk mentions its simply a case of undoing the 6 bolts on the top so when I get the car back I'll take a look at the colour of the filter and take a closer look at where this supposed corrosion is.

(no plans for a FL vRS, at least until this one has reached the end of it's life )

[max69vk]

^{Its well worth checking the fuel filter as it seems to indicate various potential component failures as well as cause various issues including cold start problems. As for your fuel filter housing, its fine, mine looks super rusty all over, & most look ropey after only a couple of years anyway.}

^{I actually managed to mishape the top lid while removing it to get to the filter which in turn lead to a leak, take your time & lever the lid slowly all the way round while pulling it upward to avoid damaging it.You wont damage the rubber seal as its not directly round the rim of the seal. The damage was easily rectified by putting the top back on the filter & going round the lid flange with a pair of mole grips to ensure the 2 parts of the lid & housing actually sat flat on one another, alternatively you can disconnect the hoses & take the lid off to visually check it & bend it into place, just make sure you fit the hoses back onto the right connections as the fuel feed & fuel return lines will easily fit onto each others connection & will cause kangarooing over 1500rpm as we discovered with my car :(}

Edited 15 May, 2012 by max69vk

[silver1011]

Thanks for the advice!

Skoda UK are considering a 'gesture of goodwill' towards the cost of replacement for the fuel filter housing, however in the meantime I'm going to collect the car and take a look at the filter myself.

When I pick the car up I'll also ask them to show me where they think it is leaking from as I too am not convinced.

I still think me spraying it with WD40 has led them to the wrong conclusion but I'll be happy to be proved wrong if it fixes the issue...

[Nick P]

I've been experimenting with parking it facing uphill some nights and facing downhill others and it starts perfectly every time when it's been left facing downhill. Every time I park it facing uphill it behaves like in the video linked in my signature below.

I think the fact it only happens whilst facing uphill and it first started doing it the very next time I came to start it up on my driveway after the injectors had been done HAS to tie the problem to the recall work. I think the fact it only happens facing uphill puts to rest any argument that it could be caused by a remap or my single mass flywheel.

[Auric Goldfinger]

I've been experimenting with parking it facing uphill some nights and facing downhill others and it starts perfectly every time when it's been left facing downhill. Every time I park it facing uphill it behaves like in the video linked in my signature below.

I think the fact it only happens whilst facing uphill and it first started doing it the very next time I came to start it up on my driveway after the injectors had been done HAS to tie the problem to the recall work. I think the fact it only happens facing uphill puts to rest any argument that it could be caused by a remap or my single mass flywheel.

My Octavia 170 PD Vrs went to wales last weekend and spent 2 days facing up hill park on a driveway at I would think 30 degrees,

Had loads of problems getting it to start. I assume the fuel had drained out of the pump and back into the tank. when you turn the ignition on you can normally hear the pump priming but in this case it could not lift enough fuel into the pump to start the car.

It took 4 or 5 attempts to start, once it did all's been find since

My Injectors have also been replaced

[max69vk]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned in this thread but I've just found out that there is a software (ECU) update that should be applied at the same time as the injector swap that deals with DPF & (I believe) cold start issues. 99% of dealer service depts aren't even aware of it so its well worht double checking it's been done.

[silver1011]

Good piece of info there! Have you anymore details on the update, does it have a number etc. that I can use to quote to my Skoda dealer to check if it was done?

[max69vk]

Hopefully they'll put the update details (version release) on the paperwork when I pick the car up tomorrow, seems to be a universal problem with this engine on all the SEAT, VW & AUDI forums.

[max69vk]

Forgot to ask if you had access to VCDS or Vag-Com?

There is measurement in VCDS for KW (crank angle) that shows the physical injection to cam timing, Ideally this should be 0-0.5 degrees (although it can be higher & can vary due to belt stretch), this gets disturbed during the injector removal & refit, & amazingly ( or not so amazingly) VAG techs are clueless about it - This also affects starting & idling.

There are various threads on it if you search Google

[silver1011]

Jeez, if the cam timing can be disturbed during an injector fit then surely it is detailed as part of the injector recall?

I think during one of the several attempts to cure my cold starting issue my dealer did this as they mentioned something about adjusting the timing.

Who knows! I'll be asking about this once they call me back next week as I don't have access to VCDS.

[max69vk]

Its not actually the cam timing (not cam/valve timing) that needs adjusting, so there's no danger of engine damage. The PD injectors are controlled to inject by the ECU, however they are 'activated' by the rocker assembly that runs off the cam. When they remove the assembly to replace the injectors it doesn't go back 100% as it was when it came off (new parts installed/different tolerances of parts etc etc) & this is what can put the crank angle out.

If you look on the cam pulleys you will see that they are held on by a central bolt but that they also have 3 other bolts which fit into slotted holes in the pulley. By loosening these 3 bolts & moving the pulleys very slightly (same direction) this is what adjusts the crank angle. Here's a good explanation of it all (even if its for a single pulley engine the principle is the same)... http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/multi/PD-adjust-Idle-TDI.htm

[Davidsr20]

Jeez, if the cam timing can be disturbed during an injector fit then surely it is detailed as part of the injector recall?

I think during one of the several attempts to cure my cold starting issue my dealer did this as they mentioned something about adjusting the timing.

Who knows! I'll be asking about this once they call me back next week as I don't have access to VCDS.

It's a wonder ur not fed up with the car at this stage.

I really think these issues after injectors replaced is down to bad workmanship as some of us are having no issues at all, mine were done in a vw Audi main dealer and Skoda after sales so they done quiet a lot of injectors, also the head mechanic done mine so he was known to be the best of the best.

Touch wood I will never have issues but iv now done nearly 8k km and alls well.

Edited 18 May, 2012 by Davidsr20

[Auric Goldfinger]

It's a wonder ur not fed up with the car at this stage.

I really think these issues after injectors replaced is down to bad workmanship as some of us are having no issues at all, mine were done in a vw Audi main dealer and Skoda after sales so they done quiet a lot of injectors, also the head mechanic done mine so he was known to be the best of the best.

Touch wood I will never have issues but iv now done nearly 8k km and alls well.

Mines fine too...............touch wood ( touches head )

[Bobbybiscuit]

I have just bought my car - Octavia Elegance 1.9 TDI 130 bhp - awful starting hot and cold but drives like a dream with lots of power. Interesting though if I wait 20 seconds after turning on ignition then it usually starts after engine turning over 2-3 times. No flashing glow plug symbol.

Im addition, if I turn the ignition key and try and start the car immediately, it wont start at all. Then the flashing amber sign appears (glowplug).

Any ideas please. At least I can get around with the work around.

[silver1011]

Sounds to me like a duff glowplug.

Failing glow plugs log a fault code on the cars ECU so I recommend getting it scanned to be sure before splashing out on a full set of plugs...

[ghost-rider]

Mine does this cold start thing, If I wait for the glow pug lights to go out and then fire her up she starts. But runs a bit lumpy for a few minutes. But still pulls like a train. I cannot get over the enjoyment my VRS TDI gives me. It's sooo bloody quick, I am wondering it it was remapped before I got it, and I did buy it from a main dealer.

[kblackburn]

Well I have been reading this thread with interest, I have a 2001 octy tdi, with starting issues, since timing belt change, it's been back at the dealers for 3 day's and their convinced it's the glow plugs, however, no fault codes present, I have checked with my vcds and the timing retarded, which in turn has moved the duty cycle to more than 10%,it's actually at 63.8% I just wondered, has anyone checked the duty cycle on your vehicles as this will go out of spec with belt stretch ?

kev

[Nick P]

Which measuring block is that kev?

[max69vk]

I've already posted this in another thread but it may be of use here too...

Nick, tried replying to your other thread (and PM) but for some reason I couldn't get the site to work the last couple of days. Anyhow...

I've adjusted my torsion to dead on 0.0 & tweaked the idle RPM slightly (dropped by 20rpm) & its smooth as silk! While I was there I tried various different degrees up to +/- 3 at which point it just wouldnt fire, at -2.4 (near where yours is) is was a bit of a pain to start & was fairly rough, the adjustment between 0 & +/-3 degrees was probably only 5mm adjustment from either extreme, which is tiny! I'll take some more screenshots for you tonight showing the same details as above, except I'll substitute group 010 for group 003 which will show the EGR values (& which I think could be more relevant).

KBlackburn, what duty cycle are you measuring? At idle the EGR duty cycle can be up to 50% (which I was suprised at) & the N75 duty cycle is at around 85%. Depending on what engine you have & software update this can vary though.