Cold Start problems with a PD TDI 170

[kblackburn]

Hi,

cold start injector duty cycle, found in engine measuring blocks group 004, I don't know if it's the same for the pd engine, but that's where it lives for the 1.9tdi alh engine, it was just a thought.

[Kilner]

any more new on this cold start issue ?

if my car is left for around 8hours + and i try to start it

it will fire up fast but ther is blue smoke and a very rough idle so i need to hold the accelrater for 3 seconds and then its fine will idle nice and no blue smoke

[Kilner]

car is in at vw now

its been parked up from 2pm today untill tomorow morning when they start it and hav it pluged into the machine

i have read sevral things i think its also possible im experiancing injector blow by i hav a hell of a lot of blow by from my rocker cover breather its also slightly smokey aswell this could be caused by rings or anything

but i hav a feeling the injectors arnt seated corectly and the pressure is geting past and then also alowing oil to leak into the cylinder

i will hav to see what they say tomorow

also this is my cold start up log of idle stabalition on startup

ther maxing out at around 2.85 and -2.76 and as the engine warms the injectors start to work corect

as you can see they are all over untill it starts to warm i also had to hold the accelrator for around 3 seconds after 10 seconds of the initial cold start to make it recover

[silver1011]

Fingers crossed for tomorrow morning.

My dealer did this a couple of times (left the car outside overnight and pushed it into the workshop to start it whilst plugged in).

I found myself studying the weather every week last winter looking for the coldest temperatures and booking it in!

My cold starts were worse the colder it got (see some of the video's I posted earlier in this thread).

Despite this the dealer said that despite them acknowledging the cost start issue nothing was showing up on their diagnostics

[Kilner]

yes i hav a feeling they will just try to palm me off

but its the master tech thats looking into it for me but that dosent mean anything

my cold startup is very very bad i hav to rev the engine as im in fear somthing is goin to brake with the amount of bucking the engine is doing

i dont realy mind the car doin this aslong as its not causing long term damage but turning the key on a newish car and it behaving like an old tug boat is not ideal and it didnot do this before the injector swop

i was talking to another mechanic that droped me off after i left the car and he said to be honest the best way to check if its injectors or not is to try another 4 new injectors in the car

they can do anything they like aslong it dosent cost me a fortune for them to fault find

i dont get any fault codes or anything but somthing isent installed corect or working corect if they so nothing is showing i will tell them to take the injectors out and reseat them into difrent pots and then i can take logs again at idle and if the injectors that are showing 2.85 in pot 1 and 4 and they move these to 2 and 3 and the injection stabalizing changes to pot 2 and 3 it has to be injectors

but yes fingers crossed i hav also changed turbo new intake manifold and gasket as its prone to leaks sevral oil chnages fuel filter changed oil filter and its still ver rough on startup

but if its slightly warm outside sometimes the car will start fine with just a bit of blue smoke but if its in the shade and started erly morning it will be very rough 85% of the time it starts bad but ther is those odd ocasions were its ok

sorry about my spelling

[silver1011]

If it's smoking on start-up then I assume the DPF has been removed?

Just becareful not to make a point of this in front of the dealer as they have got funny with warranty claims when the DPF has been removed.

Rest assured that this thread will get popular again over the next few months as those who have had their injectors changed during the warmer months start realising that their car turns into a tug boat over night!

[Kilner]

my car starts instantly it dosent strugle to start it just strugles to idle its up and down from 580rpm to 900rpm and its like the engine is trying to pull itself from the car

i had the remap and dpf delete and egr delete before the injector recall and they still did my injectors so i carnt see it been an issue but i kno they will just blame it on the remap

can any of you take off your rocker cover breather pipe and check how much blow by you hav my blow by is prity apauling i would allmost say my rings are gone but its only done 50k milles

[Kilner]

suprise suprise the injectors all checked out fine but they admit ther is an issue with the engine

they said the mechanic has seen the engine has been modified and can i please list all the modifications so they can further help me diagnose it

pffft all these modifications were done before the injectors were changed

so if its not injectors what the hell is it they seem to think the engine isent geting anough air i hav just put a brand new turbo on and also changed the inlet manifold and brand new gasket to get these out of the way

its either valves or rings in my opinion but would this cause the injection stabalization to be off by so much could it be the remapp ?

i dont have have any idea what this could be now i feel liek just running the engine untill it brakes

[Nick P]

It's not the remap. I've been on "stage 0" for a couple of months seeing if it made any difference to this issue. It's still doing it.

[Kilner]

but still you will need the dpf delete to be added to that remap i want my car back as i read somthing a couple of days ago about how the dpf works and i need to test somthing on cold startup to see if that was also changed in the dpf delete if not this could be the cause of the bad idle

if its not this its looking exspensive im just waiting for the master tech to ring me back

i will also get a video to show how bad my cold start is

carnt wait to see how much today's costs will be

[Kilner]

ok lets just say im not happy

they said the injectors are within tolerance at 2.80 pfftttt bull sh**t

also the resson i am most unhappy is i got home poped my bonnet and and notice a mark on my engine cover removed it and it has a massive crack and has been plastic welded back togetha from teh back .....

i hav had this engine cover off more time's than i hav had hot dinners and i hav never seen a crack i also got a new engine cover from a friend and cleaned both bits to perfection and the broken bit wasent ther then

if they will try hide the fact they broke my engine cover what chance have i got with injectors ???

[Jane_i10]

Waiting for this to come back up again. Mine has been abit lumpier to start just lately with the cooler weather setting it, if someone mentioned DPF's (think i saw it somewhere) then no this is not the offender, i dont have one.

I still think its fuel related, this has stemmed from years of diesel VAG's and there alot been changed in them but one obvious part is letting the side down.

[Kilner]

ok i got back in contact with my local vw garage and they put me onto the manager she was like oooo has it been broken please bring the car down again

so i arived back at vw the mechanic finaly come over and said o we forgot to put it onto the job sheet and we hav orderd you a new cover for tomorow

LIERS I CARNT STAND LIERS

if i carnt trust them with a plastic engien cover how do i trust them wen im told the injectors are fine ??

goin to ring vw uk and complain hopefully get it booked in at another branch somthing isent corect

[Kilner]

think i hav an idea to what could be causing the cold start issue

the ecu is still requesting egr and closing the ASV to increse exhaust gas to flow thru the egr also on cold startup the ASV is closed some to increse the gases from the egr to aid engine warming i dont hav an egr as its deleted so my ASV is casuing an air restriction to my engine

this is only a possible problem im goin to test in the morning without the ASV valve

also peopel that still hav the egr and hav the rough idle it could be that your egr is blocked so its having the same effect as what i am having

i still think its injectors but this is possible

[Kilner]

ok a video from this morning i disabled the ASV and it seems hav made the problem a little beter

before with the ASV enabled i wouldent be able to leave the car to idle the same as i can in this video as the bucking is a lot worse also ther semmed to be no smoke this time so either the ASV has improved this or it is somthing that VW did yesterday that has stoped it smoking as bad ??

here is a video im unsure if you can watch it http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=10152085277260162&ev=0

ther is also a bad chattering noise this is my single mass flywheel please dont take note of that

[Kilner]

just started the car again with the ASV back on the car and o my word smoke and stutering like hell

goin to try again in the morning with the asv disabled i feel i could also be getin some stutering from my lighweaight flywheel but i think for the peopel with the more mild cold start i realy think disabling the ASV could fix your starting problem

all you hav to do is unplug the plug from the ASV its the plug below the EGR this will keep the ASV in the 100% open position

can some one please try this and confirm ther results

also if the stuter is still ther please check for smoke are you geting the usual smoke or is it gone with the ASV disabled

thanks

[Kilner]

i am now £200 down and im still no further forward i am determind to find teh problem tho here is a qwick video of my car

http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=10152106545555162&ev=0

Edited 28 September, 2012 by Kilner

[Nick P]

stick the video on youtube instead. Can't view it on facebook.

[Kilner]

ok be up soon

[Kilner]

ok the video on youtube sorry about the spam

seems allmost the same as yours on camera nick bit of a coincidence injector recall and same map ?

comments please

Edited 28 September, 2012 by Kilner

[Nick P]

It behaves identically to mine doesn't it.

[Kilner]

yes nick

im geting a standard map put on my car no dpf delete or anything it will go into limp mode but i dont care i will remove fault codes and try the car again in the morning this will rule out the map 100% if its still the same

and then i can book my car in at vw again for further mechanical work

Edited 28 September, 2012 by Kilner

[Kilner]

what is the ecu code on ur ecu ??

and nick dont forget we also had jbs on before this one we hav done allmost teh identical things and ended up with the same identical problem STRANGE

this is my current ecu code

ECM part number 03G 906 018 FC

ECM Description R4 2.0l ppd1.2 1879

is urs the same ??

i found out ther is a warranty on the injectors its a 12k mille waranty

Edited 28 September, 2012 by Kilner

[Kilner]

ok i have just about tryed everything and nothing has fixed it

changed my torsion value from 2.35 to 0.00 bang on also left my rear cam were it was no change then i changed the rear cam to match the front no chnage

changed idle speed to 900 rpm

new turbo

new intake manifold and gasket

cleaned all intake pipes out

had vw check it sevral times and aparantly put new injectors in

i just opened my fuel filter today it was only a new one 200 miles ago and its allrdy geting dirty and in my diesel in the filter housing ther is millions of little black specks i would of said this is oil but it reminds me more of the exhaust soot

i then removed the return fuel temp sensor and this had some kind of black oil type substance on it and all had the little specs in the fuel that come out of the return line

this all leads me to belive that the injector is not sealing properly and the oil or gases from combustion are able to be forced past the seals also why dose it only happen on a morning from cold ?

mayb the sediment is seteling in the injector overnight and then on teh first start you get all the junk before the fresh fuel?

or the fuel is leaking past the seal over night and causing what i would call quench were ther is to much fuel in the cylinder for ignition and this causes it to missfire and smoke

also it could be the tandem pump leaking oil into the fuel lines

also for teh people that carnt get ther car to start and are having to crank it a long time these are your posible soloutions

check your ASV anti shuder valve is not stuck closed

ther is a vacume on teh tandum pump that can fail

and ther is also a fuel leak that happens on the tandum pump overnight very slow and looses all presure inside the fuel lines and gets air inside this means yo uwill hav excessive cranking

hope this helps some one

im thinking bout buying all the tools to take my injectors out myself as my dealer is just PATHETIC i can then check properly

thanks

[Jane_i10]

ok i have just about tryed everything and nothing has fixed it

That sounds about right!

Try clamping the fuel lines?