Towing again

[chriskelland]

This may be of interest to Plumber for his data base or any one who had a Wesfalia/Skoda towing kit fitted to their Yeti or any other Skoda. Skoda has finaly come up with a fix to make their tow bar legal, ie to enable the attachment of a breakaway cable or a secondary means of attachment for an unbraked trailer.You need to fit a clamp on the tow bar, part number 5L0056705 to resolve the problem. I would think it would be free to some one who bought their Yeti with towbar fitted or about £8 over the counter.

Iamgeob

Has anyone actually seen this part? Or have a picture of it?

Chris.

[MX51ROD]

Which goes to prove what several have said in the past; that even the salesman don't have good product knowledge some of the time!

And having spoken to my "salesperson" he has no knowledge of larger cooling fans , and can find no reference to them , perhaps someone could pass on a link or reference to this addition so I can enlighten him

Edited 1 May, 2011 by MX51ROD

[iamgeob]

Has anyone actually seen this part? Or have a picture of it?

Chris.

To answer several questions, 1)The wesfalia detachable tow bar as supplied to me and fitted by Skoda was perfectly legal under EU rules BUT, it could not be legally used in the UK/Denmark or Holland as there was no place to attach a BREAKAWAY cable for a caravan or a SECONDARY means of attachment for an unbraked trailer of under 750 Kgs. BOTH required under the legal requirements of the countries mentioned, check the DEFRA website under towing requirements. I can imagine the interesting conversation you would have with an insurance company if a trailer broke away and clobbered someone or some thing if the trailer did not have either of the above.

2)It is not acceptable, see the requirements, to loop the cable or chain over the tow ball, especially the detachable type.

3)It took me 3months to get Westfallia/Skoda to agree that their installation was not legal and it took a further six months for them to come up with a fix, the famous clamp/bracket which attaches to the bar itself. On any other brand of towing kit a small 50 pence bolt on plate is supplied BUT on the wesfalia/Skoda tow kit everything is welded so no bolts to hang it on. The Law states that the restraint should hold two and a half times the loaded weight of a 750Kgs trailer if it breaks away. A caravan is different as the breakaway cable snaps after applying the caravan brake and suprises the Truck following you.

4)Finally, the clamp is bolt on and shaped to fit over the tow bar, it has welded on plate with a hole in it to accept a chain or cable. It took a Skoda dealer half an hour to fit.

5)All of this old cobblers is because I was assured by Skoda and the main dealer where I bought the Yeti that I could have problems with my warranty if I fitted an aftermarket tow kit.

[Llanigraham]

iamgeob,

you are making some bold statements that seem to be disagreed with by some other bodies. Certainly the C & C Club state that is acceptable for a BRAKED trailer's pull-cable to be looped around the towball.

Can you please supply a link to some legislation that backs up your posting.

I "may" agree with you about the break-away cable for UN-BRAKED trailers, however, but even that is debateable.

ADD.

If it is legal under EU Regs they why isn't it legal in UK/Holland/Denmark? Aren't they in the EU?

Edited 2 May, 2011 by Llanigraham

[iamgeob]

iamgeob,

you are making some bold statements that seem to be disagreed with by some other bodies. Certainly the C & C Club state that is acceptable for a BRAKED trailer's pull-cable to be looped around the towball.

Can you please supply a link to some legislation that backs up your posting.

I "may" agree with you about the break-away cable for UN-BRAKED trailers, however, but even that is debateable.

ADD.

If it is legal under EU Regs they why isn't it legal in UK/Holland/Denmark? Aren't they in the EU?

I am getting fed up with this crap I am getting. I thought that I was helping fellow Skoda owners Most of the replies are from people who can't read. You cannot loop a chain or a cable over a detachable ball as it might be the part that comes adrift. The Westfallia equipment is all welded so there was no place attach a chain or cable. All my original comments were for unbraked trailers,the legislation referes to braked trailers. The stupid comment about UK/Denmark and Holland is hardly worth replying to, but if you have ever travelled in Europe you will see instantly how much rules differ between member states. SEE BELOW, UNDER "SECONDARY COUPLINGS AND BREAKAWAY CABLES" The whole write up below is extacted from

Tow Legal - Tow Safe

Secondary Couplings and Break-away cables

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986 No. 1078) and amending Regulations.

Secondary Trailer Couplings

Trailers manufactured from 1 October 1982 must not be used on the road if they are not fitted with a device that stops them automatically if the main coupling between the towing vehicle and trailer breaks unless a secondary coupling is fitted which, if the main coupling breaks, the secondary coupling prevents the drawbar from touching the ground and some steering remains on the trailer.

This requirement also applies to trailers manufactured from 1 January 1997 having a maximum total design weight not exceeding 750 kg (Regulation 15).

BSAU 267: 1998

Scope

This Code of Practice provides recommendations for break-away cables and secondary couplings, and their attachment points, for light trailers or caravans up to a mass of 3,500 kg. It applies to trailers which do not have brakes or have overrun or inertia type braking systems only.

Definitions

Break-away Cable ("BC") A break-away cable is a cable between the towing vehicle and the trailer including its fitments which, in the event of separation of the main coupling, activates the braking mechanism of the trailer.

Secondary Coupling ("SC") A secondary coupling is a coupling device between the trailer and towing vehicle which, upon separation of the main coupling, ensures that the two vehicles remain connected, prevents the drawbar touching the ground and provides residual steering for the trailer.

Secondary Couplings used for the retention of trailers in the event of main coupling separation should be designed to have an ultimate tensile strength of equivalent to at least twice the maximum permissable mass of the trailer.

Application Trailers with a mass of up to 1,500 kg should be fitted with either a BC or SC. Trailers without brakes should have a maximum mass of 750 kg and should be fitted with a SC. It is recommended that all trailers with brakes should be fitted with a BC. It is required that trailers with a mass of between 1,500 kg and 3,500 kg be fitted with a BC.

Attachment The preferred method is by direct attachment. The sprung hook or clip on the end of the BC or SC should be attached directly to, or through, an attachment point on the towing vehicle.

When the towing device fitted to the towing vehicle is removable without the use of special tools, then the SC or BC should be attached directly to an attachment point which should not be on, or part of, the detachable componant(s).

General The BC should pass though a lug, guide or similar fitting on the trailer to ensure that, regardless of the relative angles of the trailer and the towing vehicle at the time of separation of the main coupling, there is a direct in line pull applied to the brake linkage of the trailer.

[Llanigraham]

BH!!

Take a chill pill!!

I was not giving you "crap", I was asking for a link to an official document, because this hadn't been done previously, and from experience sometimes people say things that isn't actually fully correct, and I actually like to check the legislation myself.

From your quote and in relation to caravans I have highlighted certain points:

BSAU 267: 1998

Scope

This Code of Practice provides recommendations for break-away cables and secondary couplings, and their attachment points, for light trailers or caravans up to a mass of 3,500 kg. It applies to trailers which do not have brakes or have overrun or inertia type braking systems only.

Definitions

Break-away Cable ("BC") A break-away cable is a cable between the towing vehicle and the trailer including its fitments which, in the event of separation of the main coupling, activates the braking mechanism of the trailer.

Secondary Coupling ("SC") A secondary coupling is a coupling device between the trailer and towing vehicle which, upon separation of the main coupling, ensures that the two vehicles remain connected, prevents the drawbar touching the ground and provides residual steering for the trailer.

Secondary Couplings used for the retention of trailers in the event of main coupling separation should be designed to have an ultimate tensile strength of equivalent to at least twice the maximum permissable mass of the trailer.

Application Trailers with a mass of up to 1,500 kg should be fitted with either a BC or SC. Trailers without brakes should have a maximum mass of 750 kg and should be fitted with a SC. It is recommended that all trailers with brakes should be fitted with a BC. It is required that trailers with a mass of between 1,500 kg and 3,500 kg be fitted with a BC.

Attachment The preferred method is by direct attachment. The sprung hook or clip on the end of the BC or SC should be attached directly to, or through, an attachment point on the towing vehicle.

When the towing device fitted to the towing vehicle is removable without the use of special tools, then the SC or BC should be attached directly to an attachment point which should not be on, or part of, the detachable componant(s).

General The BC should pass though a lug, guide or similar fitting on the trailer to ensure that, regardless of the relative angles of the trailer and the towing vehicle at the time of separation of the main coupling, there is a direct in line pull applied to the brake linkage of the trailer.

The red highlights are general, but please note the orange and particularly the use of the words PREFERRED METHOD and SHOULD. Being pedantic, for that is what the Law is, if it was compulsory then the wording would say MUST. That is not just my view but also that of the two main Caravanning Clubs in the UK.

(editted to make it easier to read)

Edited 5 May, 2011 by Llanigraham

[rockhopper]

The red highlights are general, but please note the orange and particularly the use of the words PREFERRED METHOD and SHOULD. Being pedantic, for that is what the Law is, if it was compulsory then the wording would say MUST. That is not just my view but also that of the two main Caravanning Clubs in the UK.

Exactly the same as the Highway Code......Big difference between recommended, should and Must.

[chriskelland]

Wonder if I fit into the category of people who can't read?

I am sure the problem here is the same as I found some years ago trying to research lift and tow recovery equipment. The problem is that certain areas of responsibility on transport matters can fall between 2 or more Ministers. Each, in good faith has a department issuing guidance, which may be entirely different but based on their own area of expertise. As far as I am aware these regulations were introduced as a 'Statutory Instrument' based on EU regulation, EU type approval and ‘best practice’ and also have yet to establish precedence. So as far as I am concerned continue to take advice from industry standards.

Here’s the nitty gritty, I collected my 5L**** clamp today to find out all about it, what it looks like and how it fits. First impressions. Thin bit of bent metal with a bolt through it. On Yeti , it clamps around the towbar cross member. To fit it you have to bend the clamp to slide it over the cross bar, then bend it back to fit the retaining bolt. Yes, it may well work, I am not holding my breath, with all it’s faults I may well continue to loop my BC over the swan neck. One concern is that the ‘lug’ is short so as not to foul the bumper inset when the swaneck is removed and may be too short to be effective.

Off to Harrogate for the ME Exhibition next week, so will report back on any problems.

Chris.

[rockhopper]

Wonder if I fit into the category of people who can't read?

I am sure the problem here is the same as I found some years ago trying to research lift and tow recovery equipment. The problem is that certain areas of responsibility on transport matters can fall between 2 or more Ministers. Each, in good faith has a department issuing guidance, which may be entirely different but based on their own area of expertise. As far as I am aware these regulations were introduced as a 'Statutory Instrument' based on EU regulation, EU type approval and ‘best practice’ and also have yet to establish precedence. So as far as I am concerned continue to take advice from industry standards.

Here’s the nitty gritty, I collected my 5L**** clamp today to find out all about it, what it looks like and how it fits. First impressions. Thin bit of bent metal with a bolt through it. On Yeti , it clamps around the towbar cross member. To fit it you have to bend the clamp to slide it over the cross bar, then bend it back to fit the retaining bolt. Yes, it may well work, I am not holding my breath, with all it’s faults I may well continue to loop my BC over the swan neck. One concern is that the ‘lug’ is short so as not to foul the bumper inset when the swaneck is removed and may be too short to be effective.

Off to Harrogate for the ME Exhibition next week, so will report back on any problems.

Chris.

It doesn't sound like it will take the extra weight - 2 times the weight of the trailer, so theoretically it could take somewhere between 3600 & 4000 Kg if I understand the previous posts correctly.....wonder. Even 2 times 750 is 1500Kg........1 1/2 tonnes on a bent piece of metal......

Can we not use the towing eye, or is that not deemed to be in the right place or it is removable without tools....??

[Llanigraham]

Can we not use the towing eye, or is that not deemed to be in the right place or it is removable without tools....??

'Tis in the wrong place. Needs to be in the middleish of the car.

[rockhopper]

'Tis in the wrong place. Needs to be in the middleish of the car.

I thought so....not surprised.

[chriskelland]

'Tis in the wrong place. Needs to be in the middleish of the car.

The pictogram in the fitting instructions show the bracket is fitted 70mm from the side of the swanneck socket on the right side. The bracket is described as 'Towing coupling safety lug for sidecar'. If the tow bar assembly is allready fitted Skoda reccomend that it is a garage job as it requires the removal of the rear bumper assembly. I fitted mine through the swanneck cut out. After bending the clamp (by hand) to slip it around the crossmember I used a 4 inch G clamp to close it up again to get the bolt through the bracket.

The instructions give no information as to use, other than it is a safety lug for a sidecar. Make of that, what you will.

Chris.

[Sanqhar]

Got my bits today, as Chris says the instructions say to remove the bumper but fitting it through the bumper cutout is on.

Here are two photos, one of the bracket and the other of the diagram in the fitting instructions.

tom

[g6zru]

Got my bits today, as Chris says the instructions say to remove the bumper but fitting it through the bumper cutout is on.

Here are two photos, one of the bracket and the other of the diagram in the fitting instructions.

tom

I'd apreciate a picture of when it's fitted if possible Sanqhar.

Fred

[Llanigraham]

Well it won't twist around it's mounting, so that is one plus point.

But I wonder would it take a load of 2000kg (Yeti towing limit) multiplied by say a factor of 2 for the sudden shock, multiplied by a moment calculation of about 80mm to the hole centre, on that short and not particularly tidy weld?

And going back to that link I highlighted various paragraphs from, I've just noticed it actually says it in the first line it is a "Code of Practice"!!

[Freshacre]

From what I read this attachment is for unbraked trailers which means a much lower towing load than the 2000kg.

This cable has to be attached to the car in such a way that the trailer cannot come adrift, which is why the dismountable swan-neck is unsuitable.

The normal caravanning cable is designed to break free and snatch the brakes on, thus stopping the 'van from going AWOL.

Is this a correct summation?

[Llanigraham]

From what I read this attachment is for unbraked trailers which means a much lower towing load than the 2000kg.

This cable has to be attached to the car in such a way that the trailer cannot come adrift, which is why the dismountable swan-neck is unsuitable.

The normal caravanning cable is designed to break free and snatch the brakes on, thus stopping the 'van from going AWOL.

Is this a correct summation?

I would tend to agree with George, but the gent who took umbrage at my query implied that it should also apply to all trailer BC's when the towing vehicle is equipped with a swan neck ball. However my reading of that "Code of Practice" does say that.

My calculation is for that scenario.

[Big Rich]

I'm confused (doesn't take much) :'(

My question is then

If it is a legal requirement to have an additional fixing point why is there no such point fitted as standard when a towbar is fitted.

I've always wrapped the cable from my unbraked trailer round the swan neck, as there was no method of attaching it to the cars I've owned. 02 plate Toyota Corrola T-sport, 06 plate Vectra Estate and a 09 Mondeo Hatch all new and fitted with a manufacturer towbar.

Surely if it was a legal requirement when a swan neck towbar is fitted they would have to provide a seperate attachment point.

[Llanigraham]

Rich, that is where the arguement started between another member and I!!

If you read the details under "Tow Legal - Tow Safe " in posts 30 and 31 of this thread it would appear that for an unbraked trailer it does need this, but not for a braked trailer. However the whole section of that quote does say "Code of Practice" and all the sections say "should" not "must", and as we all know the Law is a pedant and those two words mean totally different things.

Shall we just say that in 18 days time when I tow my caravan to France the cable will be wrapped around the swans-neck!

[Freshacre]

the cable will be wrapped around the swans-neck!

BUT - and this is a crucial BUT:-

Is your swan's neck detachable or fixed, because that is where I believe the confusion has arisen.

[Sanqhar]

"I'd apreciate a picture of when it's fitted if possible Sanqhar.

Fred"

As Chris said, not difficult but fiddly. Good tip to use a G clamp to bring the bolt tabs back together.

I just put everything away and have now had to go out and start lying on my back on the gravel again !!!

Things I do!!!

First photo shows the general position, it does not foul the bumper cutout.

This picture is taken nearly vertically upwards.

tom

[Llanigraham]

BUT - and this is a crucial BUT:-

Is your swan's neck detachable or fixed, because that is where I believe the confusion has arisen.

Detatchable, but I still don't see that there is any difference in the bit of legaleese "published" earlier here.

I actually may think of buying that addition just for tidyness sake.

(James, can I have a price please?)

[fuzzybunny]

Detatchable, but I still don't see that there is any difference in the bit of legaleese "published" earlier here.

I actually may think of buying that addition just for tidyness sake.

(James, can I have a price please?)

It certainly is confusing alright.

I don't think there is any distinction between a detachable and a fixed tow ball

Depends if you have trailer which has brakes.

As far as I understand, if that is the case you need a breakaway cable to apply the brakes in the case of the coupling becoming detached.

If you don't have a special fixing bracket on your tow bar then the cable can be looped around the tow ball.

With a garden trailer or non braked trailer I'm not sure if its a legal requirement.

have a look at this look for more info.

http://www.motabars.co.uk/breakaway.html

Cheers, Fuzzy

[countryboy]

I forgot to add, the quotations were for a detachable tow ball , was yours detachable ? if so it will be worth a trip down to Hants

Also did you need factory towing preparation ?

Hi sorry so long to get back on. There was no factory towbar prep on my car, the wiring was set up to go from the rear of the car to the control unit at the front, the fitting company also had a computer which they plugged into the OBD plug in the dashboard to code the car for towing. When towing there is no extra warning for the indicators unless there is a bulb failure when the warning light flashes at twice speed and the bulb failure light illuminates, my car also has a warning on the maxidot.

I can't offhand remember the quote which I got for a detachable towbar but I think it was in the region of £500 to £540 fitted and coded with twin 7 pin electrics.

Ian

[chriskelland]

Detatchable, but I still don't see that there is any difference in the bit of legaleese "published" earlier here.

I actually may think of buying that addition just for tidyness sake.

(James, can I have a price please?)

Have to be quick! My parts man - Steve says that the 'system' only shows 17 available, I have assume that's how many in central stores, Oh and minus mine.

Cost, £8.30 + VAT £10.00.

Chris.